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Theme Changer

 Poll

  • Question: Imagine in the future we have medical technology that allows us to live forever. And say it's so far in the future that it only costs $1 per year. Say there is a 70 year old who is contemplating suicide. see my post below for context.
  • Don't suicide because family will be sad.
  • Suicide.

 Topic: Suicide or not?

 (Read 28331 times)
  • Previous page 1 ... 5 6 78 9 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #180 - February 15, 2014, 04:43 PM

    no. Suicide has nothing to do with how old someone is. It has to do with the state of their well being

    And if a person wants to suicide, it's because he wants to end his suffering. Do you agree?

    Do you think a person should decide to not suicide because his family would be sad?
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #181 - February 16, 2014, 06:13 PM

    Quote
    And if a person wants to suicide, it's because he wants to end his suffering. Do you agree?


    Define suffering in this case?

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote
    You're not allowed to say serial killing is bad until you've been a serial killer.


    I don't get your logic there.  I think you're trying to respond to me saying if you advocate something, you should have to experience it.  So if you say serial killing is bad, you have to be a serial killer?  Lmao, if you're going to try to use my logic against me, at least get it right.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote
    There's a lot of benefit in seeing how other people live, being able to share their experiences. However it's unreasonable for me to be treated as a danger to society/homosexuals/children/women/etc and to experience the punishments/deterrents unwillingly. I feel no guilt about a serial killer who is a danger to society being put in a place he can't kill without me being subjected to the same thing. There is no reason for me to be locked up for 50+ years just so I can see what it's like for Charles Manson.


    Actually there's a huge point in you being locked up like that.  If you think such actions are a deterrent to so-called "dangers" not only are you not aware of whats going on in your own society and simply not paying attention to current events, but if you have no sympathy or guilt over such things, that shows you're no better, and if anything a lot worse than the so-called monsters you wish to lock up.  Don't pretend like you being a revengehead is somehow making you less of a sick fuck, especially since the oh so evil serial killers and child rapists make up a small percentage of the prison population (the vast majority are non-violent offenders after all).  All I can say is all the tough on crime pro prison people need to face their just desserts.  They are scum.
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #182 - February 16, 2014, 06:19 PM

    ^
    So where do you draw the line between sending a serial killer to prison or allowing him to roam around? Yes, they make a relatively small minority but what would you do to them?

    And secondly, how are we scum when we haven't committed the crime in the first place?
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #183 - February 16, 2014, 07:16 PM

    And secondly, how are we scum when we haven't committed the crime in the first place?

    Because derp.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #184 - February 16, 2014, 07:30 PM

    Quote
    Because derp.


    Now now, I'm not the one who says I'm for freedom and then okay with "voluntary slavery" at the same time Tongue

    Quote
    So where do you draw the line between sending a serial killer to prison or allowing him to roam around? Yes, they make a relatively small minority but what would you do to them?

    And secondly, how are we scum when we haven't committed the crime in the first place?


    Obviously prisons and punitive punishments don't work, or else the US would be a safe haven.  Clearly societies with less emphasis on punishment are more safe.  Just take that to its logical conclusion.

    And you misunderstand me, I find prisons themselves to be a crime.
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #185 - February 16, 2014, 07:34 PM

    So where do you draw the line between sending a serial killer to prison or allowing him to roam around? Yes, they make a relatively small minority but what would you do to them?

    He'd clumsily avoid the question altogether, apparently.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #186 - February 16, 2014, 07:48 PM

    I didn't avoid it.   I actually gave my answer.  If prisons actually acted as they did, then we'd be seeing the effects.  Prison advocates are no different than death penalty advocates (actually, I'd prefer the death penalty over imprisonment).

    You're obviously intelligent, I don't know why we need to be in a pissing match.  I think we can discuss issues on a more level playing field.
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #187 - February 16, 2014, 08:05 PM

    If you think such actions are a deterrent to so-called "dangers" not only are you not aware of whats going on in your own society and simply not paying attention to current events


    In this case it's not about being a deterrent, it's about removing threats. I'm a big champion of second chances and reformation but I don't see how that will happen if they're allowed to continue unmolested.

    if you have no sympathy or guilt over such things, that shows you're no better, and if anything a lot worse than the so-called monsters you wish to lock up. 


    So I'm no better than Charles Manson because I'm glad he's being kept from taking innocent peoples lives?

    Don't pretend like you being a revengehead is somehow making you less of a sick fuck, especially since the oh so evil serial killers and child rapists make up a small percentage of the prison population (the vast majority are non-violent offenders after all).  All I can say is all the tough on crime pro prison people need to face their just desserts.  They are scum.


    I'm not talking about the non violent ones. I used an extreme point. It's not because I take any pleasure in certain people being removed from society, it's that on a practical level I realise that serial killers who if left alone will continue to kill need to be locked up.

    Actually there's a huge point in you being locked up like that.


    For 50+ years? Should I go snatch a three year old from a park and rape him/her while I'm at it?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #188 - February 17, 2014, 12:41 AM

    I voted suicide.

    It might be a selfish decision, but then it's also selfish of family to insist they don't, so I err on the side of the one owning the body and the mind that wants to die.

    As long as the person has no young dependents, it truly is their right, regardless of $1 a year access to life increasing technology.


    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #189 - February 17, 2014, 05:13 AM

    I voted suicide.

    It might be a selfish decision,....................

    Yap you are selfish.,  selfish all the way.....

    hello  Sahara..

    would you like to cut a 700 year old tree which is still healthy  gives flowers fragrance and fruit?  

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #190 - February 17, 2014, 10:11 PM

    Suicide is the most selfish and cowardly thing one can do.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote
    In this case it's not about being a deterrent, it's about removing threats. I'm a big champion of second chances and reformation but I don't see how that will happen if they're allowed to continue unmolested.


    Clearly it's not "removing threats" because society is even more threatening as well.  It's also silly to think that crazed psychopaths are the biggest threats to your liberty and life in society anyway.

    I guess you'll have to show me how imprisonment and/or the death penalty remove threats from society.

    Quote
    So I'm no better than Charles Manson because I'm glad he's being kept from taking innocent peoples lives?


    Yeah, I don't buy into this phony dichotomy (between innocent and guilty).  I do think the average citizen is just as responsible as crazed psychopaths are.  These people are products of society and we're responsible for it.  Kind of like how we're all responsible for the wars and other violent actions our nations undertake in our name?

    Quote
    I'm not talking about the non violent ones. I used an extreme point. It's not because I take any pleasure in certain people being removed from society, it's that on a practical level I realise that serial killers who if left alone will continue to kill need to be locked up.


    Yeah but inevitably imprisonment will always cover largely non-violent offenders since most crimes by and large are non-violent.  Over 70 percent of American prisoners (the largest prison system on the planet, surpassing even Stalin's gulags) are non-violent, for example. 

    Quote
    For 50+ years? Should I go snatch a three year old from a park and rape him/her while I'm at it?


    Don't air out your fantasies to me...

    No no, I think you should be locked up for a month, perhaps.  Personally I think all people should, including me, so we can know what it's like.  I think a big part of education in society should be to expose people to all aspects of it, so we can actually have a full perspective on it.

    Think of it like this: If someone is all pro-war and pro-military but has no intention of ever joining the military, don't you think they should have to sign up?
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #191 - February 18, 2014, 12:16 AM

    Clearly it's not "removing threats" because society is even more threatening as well.  It's also silly to think that crazed psychopaths are the biggest threats to your liberty and life in society anyway.

    I guess you'll have to show me how imprisonment and/or the death penalty remove threats from society.


    Well obviously I don't think someone killing me is the only threat to my liberty and life. I gave one example of a type of person I'm in favour of being behind bars. And the example I gave was a killer who if not removed from society would continue to kill.

    Yeah, I don't buy into this phony dichotomy (between innocent and guilty).  I do think the average citizen is just as responsible as crazed psychopaths are.  These people are products of society and we're responsible for it.  Kind of like how we're all responsible for the wars and other violent actions our nations undertake in our name?


    Collective guilt is a dangerous ideology in my opinion. I'm descended from Celtic people. They were part of the slave rebellions in the Roman Empire. Am I therefore responsible for the deaths of Romans? I'm white. Am I therefore responsible for the Atlantic slave trade? I'm male. Am I therefore responsible for misogyny? I'm straight. Am I therefore responsible for homophobia? I'm European. Am I therefore responsible for countless wars? I'm British. Am I therefore responsible for the crimes of the British Empire? I'm alive. Am I therefore responsible for everything?

    Where does it end? I'd rather just say I'm responsible for my own words and actions.

    Yeah but inevitably imprisonment will always cover largely non-violent offenders since most crimes by and large are non-violent.  Over 70 percent of American prisoners (the largest prison system on the planet, surpassing even Stalin's gulags) are non-violent, for example. 


    I won't disagree.

    No no, I think you should be locked up for a month, perhaps.  Personally I think all people should, including me, so we can know what it's like.  I think a big part of education in society should be to expose people to all aspects of it, so we can actually have a full perspective on it.


    If it was voluntary, I'd have no problem with it.

    Think of it like this: If someone is all pro-war and pro-military but has no intention of ever joining the military, don't you think they should have to sign up?


    Honestly, no. I understand where you're coming from but I'd be uneasy forcing them.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #192 - February 18, 2014, 01:29 AM

    Quote
    Well obviously I don't think someone killing me is the only threat to my liberty and life. I gave one example of a type of person I'm in favour of being behind bars. And the example I gave was a killer who if not removed from society would continue to kill.


    Actually, you missed my point.  Random criminals and psychopaths aren't the most likely to kill you or imprison you, etc.  That's what I don't get about people who are so afraid of their common man.

    Quote
    Collective guilt is a dangerous ideology in my opinion. I'm descended from Celtic people. They were part of the slave rebellions in the Roman Empire. Am I therefore responsible for the deaths of Romans? I'm white. Am I therefore responsible for the Atlantic slave trade? I'm male. Am I therefore responsible for misogyny? I'm straight. Am I therefore responsible for homophobia? I'm European. Am I therefore responsible for countless wars? I'm British. Am I therefore responsible for the crimes of the British Empire? I'm alive. Am I therefore responsible for everything?


    It's not an "ideology" as in a framework of ideas, it's just true collectives are typically guilty for what these collectives do.  Take for example war.  The reality is the people who tell themselves they're not responsible are often just people trying to avoid blame.  This is a common fallacy promoted by people who like to absolve themselves and the public from culpability and heap all the blame on a few deposed or discredited leaders. It is in fact not true. In fact in many cases leaders are compelled to action by their populations. It's a tricky issue, it's not clear cut, but clearly the masses can't escape all blame for their bloodlust as convenient as that may be.

    The fact is, if you're paying taxes into the system, voting in politicians who make thesse things happen, and overall are helping keep this system alive, you're just as guilty.  I am too, I'm not absolving myself.  I guess this leads to my very different understanding of things like "terrorism" and crime and how to prevent them.

    Quote
    Where does it end? I'd rather just say I'm responsible for my own words and actions.


    Well, this is naive and just not true, unless you live totally alone in the woods with no contact with anyone else.  Again, it's often promoted to alleviate guilt and deflect blame anyway.

    Quote
    If it was voluntary, I'd have no problem with it.


    Eh, I think we need to do it compulsary for every citizen.  Yeah I know this will never happen, but if it did, I do wonder how society would turn out as.
    Quote
    Honestly, no. I understand where you're coming from but I'd be uneasy forcing them.


    Well, I don't know, all chickenhawks should have to face what they want others to do on their behalf Tongue

    If your ideology doesn't have room for pity, treatment and forgiveness, then your ideology is poison.
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #193 - February 18, 2014, 01:46 AM

    Quote
    Actually, you missed my point.  Random criminals and psychopaths aren't the most likely to kill you or imprison you, etc.  That's what I don't get about people who are so afraid of their common man.

    I agree with you. You mentioning this and your comments on non violent prison inmates are good points but are add-ons to the example I gave, not one I gave myself. It's a separate discussion, and one we'd probably agree on more than disagree.

    Quote
    It's not an "ideology" as in a framework of ideas, it's just true collectives are typically guilty for what these collectives do.  Take for example war.  The reality is the people who tell themselves they're not responsible are often just people trying to avoid blame.  This is a common fallacy promoted by people who like to absolve themselves and the public from culpability and heap all the blame on a few deposed or discredited leaders. It is in fact not true. In fact in many cases leaders are compelled to action by their populations. It's a tricky issue, it's not clear cut, but clearly the masses can't escape all blame for their bloodlust as convenient as that may be.

    I doubt we'll agree on this.

    Quote
    The fact is, if you're paying taxes into the system, voting in politicians who make thesse things happen, and overall are helping keep this system alive, you're just as guilty.  I am too, I'm not absolving myself.  I guess this leads to my very different understanding of things like "terrorism" and crime and how to prevent them.

    I've never voted and my taxes are taken automatically.

    Quote
    Well, this is naive and just not true, unless you live totally alone in the woods with no contact with anyone else.  Again, it's often promoted to alleviate guilt and deflect blame anyway.

    Agree to disagree?

    Quote
    If your ideology doesn't have room for pity, treatment and forgiveness, then your ideology is poison.

    Agreed. My world view has plenty of room for the above. I actually said previously I'm a champion of second chances.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #194 - February 18, 2014, 01:58 AM

    Quote
    I agree with you. You mentioning this and your comments on non violent prison inmates are good points but are add-ons to the example I gave, not one I gave myself. It's a separate discussion, and one we'd probably agree on more than disagree.


    I doubt it, since I don't agree with anything you're saying or exposing.  I don't agree with your basic worldview.

    Quote
    I doubt we'll agree on this. Agree to disagree?


    It's simply a fact, from Augustus Caesar to Adolf Hitler to George W. Bush.  You're no more innocent than the people planning it.

    Quote
    I've never voted and my taxes are taken automatically.


    Until you totally drop off from the system or actively engage in stopping it, I'm not going to take your professed lack of guilt seriously.  You're just as guilty as anyone else and I will treat you as such.


    Quote
    Agreed. My world view has plenty of room for the above. I actually said previously I'm a champion of second chances.


    Agree to disagree?
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #195 - February 18, 2014, 02:24 AM

    Quote
    I doubt it, since I don't agree with anything you're saying or exposing.  I don't agree with your basic worldview.

    My basic worldview being that I'm fine with killers who will continue to kill if left alone being behind bars and thus prevented from killing? Keep in mind that's all I've said on the matter. Nothing about non violent prisoners, nothing about the death penalty, nothing about sentencing, just a very plain example that says nothing else, including "They don't deserve to see the light of day again even if they can be reformed". Add-ons, mate.

    Quote
    It's simply a fact, from Augustus Caesar to Adolf Hitler to George W. Bush.  You're no more innocent than the people planning it.

     But what you said makes no acknowledgment of those who work within those societies in order to bring about change  The logical outcome is that those anti-war groups, be they protesters or trying to bring about change on a government level are just as bloodthirsty and gung-ho as those who see video footage of war zones, death, carnage, and cheer. It's unfair.

    Quote
    Until you totally drop off from the system or actively engage in stopping it, I'm not going to take your professed lack of guilt seriously.  You're just as guilty as anyone else and I will treat you as such.

    Original sin?

    Quote
    Agree to disagree?

    Because you obviously have a clear understanding of the world through my eyes from a random hypothetical to make a point. Roll Eyes

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #196 - February 18, 2014, 02:40 AM

    Quote
    My basic worldview being that I'm fine with killers who will continue to kill if left alone being behind bars and thus prevented from killing? Keep in mind that's all I've said on the matter. Nothing about non violent prisoners, nothing about the death penalty, nothing about sentencing, just a very plain example that says nothing else, including "They don't deserve to see the light of day again even if they can be reformed". Add-ons, mate.


    I don't see you as any less of a killer than a serial killer.  You just kill by proxy.

    Quote
    But what you said makes no acknowledgment of those who work within those societies in order to bring about change  The logical outcome is that those anti-war groups, be they protesters or trying to bring about change on a government level are just as bloodthirsty and gung-ho as those who see video footage of war zones, death, carnage, and cheer. It's unfair.


    First of all, you and most others aren't working to bring about change, and second of all, even if you are, you're still feeding the beast.  Read some Henry David Thoreau or Howard Zinn for Christ's sake...

    Quote
    Original sin?


    No, I just find you to be a hypocrite.

    Quote
    Because you obviously have a clear understanding of the world through my eyes from a random hypothetical to make a point. Roll Eyes


    You're clearly not exhibiting these features.   wacko
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #197 - February 18, 2014, 02:52 AM

    So to summarise I'm guilty of the crimes another has committed because of the society I was born into (taxes and such) and am a hypocrite because I don't live alone in the woods with no modern conveniences?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #198 - February 18, 2014, 02:54 AM

    It's logic, Jim, but not as we know it.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #199 - February 18, 2014, 02:58 AM

    Oh ye of individualized mindsets...I guess "civil disobedience" means nothing to you.

    Whatever helps you guys sleep at night though.  I guess trying to rob you of that would be like robbing a homeless Christian of Jesus Christ.
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #200 - February 18, 2014, 03:03 AM

    Quote
    I guess "civil disobedience" means nothing to you.


    But what you said makes no acknowledgment of those who work within those societies in order to bring about change  The logical outcome is that those anti-war groups, be they protesters or trying to bring about change on a government level are just as bloodthirsty and gung-ho as those who see video footage of war zones, death, carnage, and cheer. It's unfair.


    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #201 - February 18, 2014, 03:14 AM

    Clearly you have no idea what I mean by "civil disobedience", even though I gave a hint toward it when referencing Thoreau.  It's not like what I'm saying is something new or controversial...

    Btw, what have you done to stop all these injustices, out of curiosity?
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #202 - February 18, 2014, 03:15 AM

    I knew a woman who went to live alone in a cabin in the woods with no modern conveniences.
    She did it for seven years, and then couldn't take it anymore.
    She was a bit odd.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #203 - February 18, 2014, 03:22 AM

    EzraJT, you do realise that all this has evolved from your own comments right? I said quite simply I'm fine with a killer who will continue to kill being locked up. That was all I said. No mention of my views on sentencing. no mention of my views on the prison system, no mention of my views on war, no mention of any of the things you brought up. The one thing I did say, that I'm a champion of second chances, you seem to think I'm lying about.

    You are aware of this, correct?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #204 - February 18, 2014, 03:23 AM

    Suicide is the most selfish and cowardly thing one can do.


    Honestly, just off the top of my head I've got murder as more selfish, draft-dodging/desertion as more cowardly, among others.

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #205 - February 18, 2014, 03:24 AM

    I knew a woman who went to live alone in a cabin in the woods with no modern conveniences.
    She did it for seven years, and then couldn't take it anymore.
    She was a bit odd.

    It's impossible for everybody to do that anyway, even if they wanted to.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #206 - February 18, 2014, 03:32 AM

    Quote
    It's impossible for everybody to do that anyway, even if they wanted to.


    Perhaps, but I don't respect the whole "I have to put up with it" approach.  If you truly cared, you'd be putting your body in front of the machine.  I don't think you do though.  That's the difference people like you and me.

    -----------------------------------------------

    Quote
    Honestly, just off the top of my head I've got murder as more selfish, draft-dodging/desertion as more cowardly, among others.


    Murder isn't always selfish.  It can be done for a variety of reasons, including self-defense and out of a desire to improve someone else's life, etc.  Murder can be done for any reason.  "Draft dodging" which isn't really relevant nowadays (at least here in the States).  It can be cowardly (i.e. when someone like Newt Gingrich, Mitt Romney, Rush Limbaugh and Ted Nugent does it) but it can also just be a sign of protest against an unjust war (most Vietnam war deserters, for example).  The closest modern equiv. would be the pro war "right-wing" in the US that almost never dons a uniform themselves and goes to fight, and actually is led by a lot of rich draft dodgers who fled the Vietnam War Tongue  Suicide on the other hand is always cowardly, and almost always selfish. 
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #207 - February 18, 2014, 03:33 AM

    Oh ye of individualized mindsets...I guess "civil disobedience" means nothing to you.

    Whatever helps you guys sleep at night though.  I guess trying to rob you of that would be like robbing a homeless Christian of Jesus Christ.


    You can break your back trying to fight the system, or you can get by and try your best not to make things worst. I don't blame people for taking the latter option, as it more readily complies with human nature.

    Either that or just go "fuck it" and settle for full-blown psychopathy, but I don't think that complies too well with human nature either, for most people anyway.  Tongue

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #208 - February 18, 2014, 03:35 AM

    Perhaps, but I don't respect the whole "I have to put up with it" approach.  If you truly cared, you'd be putting your body in front of the machine.  I don't think you do though.  That's the difference people like you and me.

    Nah, much better to offer cheap moral condemnation on the internet. That's the way you show you're actually doing something. Fight the power!

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Suicide or not?
     Reply #209 - February 18, 2014, 03:40 AM

    Suicide on the other hand is always cowardly, and almost always selfish. 


    The question is one of degrees, however. Even if you always disagree with the motivation, to place it as the MOST cowardly and MOST selfish action always, seems to fly in the face of human experience.

    I wouldn't disagree that there is often a degree of selfishness in suicide. But suicide is really more motivated by desperation than any other emotion, from what I can tell.

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
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