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 Topic: Adam - the first human?

 (Read 18834 times)
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  • Adam - the first human?
     Reply #30 - March 03, 2014, 07:36 PM

    I agree with you that according to islam, Adam was the first human.
    That is one reason how I know that Islam is false.
    But there are some Muslims (the ones who understand evolution a bit more) who say that Adam was not the first human.

    Can you tell me about this? "But there are some Muslims (the ones who understand evolution a bit more) who say that Adam was not the first human."

    Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path). (al-Baqarah 2:18)
  • Adam - the first human?
     Reply #31 - March 03, 2014, 07:42 PM

    Define "first human". It's a meaningless term.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Adam - the first human?
     Reply #32 - March 03, 2014, 07:46 PM

    It is meaningless in reality. But it means something in Islam. Adam was created magically without any parents making him the first human.

    Can you tell me about this? "But there are some Muslims (the ones who understand evolution a bit more) who say that Adam was not the first human."


    that is what this thread is about.
    I think (human) evolution is imcompatible with Islam. Most muslims I come across also agree, and they reject evolution.

    Some Muslims however, are aware that evolution cannot be denied by any educated person. Therefore they are forced to interpret Islam in their own special way. They say that humans (i.e Adam) did descend from primate ancestors.
  • Adam - the first human?
     Reply #33 - March 03, 2014, 07:56 PM

    As far as I know, in the Quran never says that Adam was the first human being except according to the Bible Adam was the first human God created. Correct me If I m wrong..

    Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path). (al-Baqarah 2:18)
  • Adam - the first human?
     Reply #34 - March 03, 2014, 08:06 PM

    so there have been humans who did not descend from Adam?
  • Adam - the first human?
     Reply #35 - March 03, 2014, 08:08 PM

    Adam needs to be maintained as a real figure within 3 religions. If you deny Adam one might as well deny the religion as well as you deny the prophets which followed him and the bloodline of Jesus. People love the appeals of religion so they will do anything to keep the religion, and by extent, emotion produced by it intact.
  • Adam - the first human?
     Reply #36 - March 03, 2014, 08:08 PM

    It is meaningless in reality. But it means something in Islam. Adam was created magically without any parents making him the first human.

    that is what this thread is about.
    I think (human) evolution is imcompatible with Islam. Most muslims I come across also agree, and they reject evolution.

    Some Muslims however, are aware that evolution cannot be denied by any educated person. Therefore they are forced to interpret Islam in their own special way. They say that humans (i.e Adam) did descend from primate ancestors.

    As for how Adam was created...

    Abu Hurairah narrated that the Muhammad said:

    "Allah created Adam from dust after He mixed the clay and left him for some time until it became sticky mud, after which Allah shaped him. After that Allah left him till it became like potter's clay..."

    Do you not think this is also said to be an evolution?

    Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path). (al-Baqarah 2:18)
  • Adam - the first human?
     Reply #37 - March 03, 2014, 08:11 PM

    No, I'd say it's a really bad story.

    Your question is stupid, because it doesn't use the term "evolution" in any relevant sense.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Adam - the first human?
     Reply #38 - March 03, 2014, 08:12 PM

    As for how Adam was created...

    Abu Hurairah narrated that the Muhammad said:

    "Allah created Adam from dust after He mixed the clay and left him for some time until it became sticky mud, after which Allah shaped him. After that Allah left him till it became like potter's clay..."

    Do you not think this is also said to be an evolution?


  • Adam - the first human?
     Reply #39 - March 03, 2014, 08:16 PM

    As for how Adam was created...

    Abu Hurairah narrated that the Muhammad said:

    "Allah created Adam from dust after He mixed the clay and left him for some time until it became sticky mud, after which Allah shaped him. After that Allah left him till it became like potter's clay..."

    Do you not think this is also said to be an evolution?

    No, not unless you remove all meaningful connotation from the word evolution. Evolution doesn't mean making something from several ingredients. I don't 'evolve' a stir fry.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Adam - the first human?
     Reply #40 - March 03, 2014, 08:19 PM

    Put another way: would anyone seriously try to claim that pottery evolves, in the Darwinian sense?

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Adam - the first human?
     Reply #41 - March 03, 2014, 08:37 PM

    What I meant was Adam made from the four elements.. water, wind, fire and dust.

    Adam's need time thousands or millions of years to perfect

    Is this not one of the evolutionary events


    Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path). (al-Baqarah 2:18)
  • Adam - the first human?
     Reply #42 - March 03, 2014, 08:45 PM

    Ok, I'll play along just for shitz n giggles.

    1/ Show me where it says Adam was made from all four "elements". The bit you quoted only mentions water and earth.

    2/ Show that these four "elements" actually are elemental. Show your working.

    3/ Show me where the Quran mentions this process took millions of years.

    4/ Explain how this supposed process is a good analogy for Darwinian evolution via spontaneous mutation combined with natural selection.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Adam - the first human?
     Reply #43 - March 03, 2014, 08:46 PM

    What I meant was Adam made from the four elements.. water, wind, fire and dust.

    Adam's need time thousands or millions of years to perfect

    Is this not one of the evolutionary events

    No. It's just some stuff you made up.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Adam - the first human?
     Reply #44 - March 03, 2014, 08:50 PM

    The evolution we are talking about happens to populations. Not to individuals. Maybe you could say that is 'evolution' in some poetic sense, but it isn't the evolution we are talking about - Natural selection and all that jazz.
    You could say that a caterpillar turning into a butterfly is 'evolution' in the sense that you are using it, but it is not 'evolution' in the sense that I am talking. Individual caterpillars do not evolve; they metamorphose. Darwinian evolution is about changes of frequencies of genes in populations over generations.
    The upshot of Evolution (in the sense the rest of us are using it) is that Humans share ancesters with other apes, with monkeys, sloths, cats, and cucumbers. It also means that there never was a 'first man'. It also means that there never was a single human couple from which all of us descend. It means that Islam is fake.

    49:13 "We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female "

    and now that I think about that verse, the only way that there could have been humans before Adam, is if the 'you' in the verse is not referring to those humans before Adam. It only addresses the people who are descendend from adam and eve. Muhammed was not sent for all mankind, and the quran is back to being wrong again. Something it never fails to do.

     
  • Adam - the first human?
     Reply #45 - March 03, 2014, 08:57 PM

    What I meant was Adam made from the four elements.. water, wind, fire and dust.

    Adam's need time thousands or millions of years to perfect

    Is this not one of the evolutionary events




    Ah so we are going back to Greek, Chinese, Japanese and India elements now?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwJaELXadKo

    Sorry but this was the first thing that popped into my head.

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLRcB4n4CGcy9vakUW1_g4E-2QPoYzEsQm

    "I'm making trees!"
  • Adam - the first human?
     Reply #46 - March 03, 2014, 08:59 PM

    Ok, I'll play along just for shitz n giggles.

    1/ Show me where it says Adam was made from all four "elements". The bit you quoted only mentions water and earth.

    2/ Show that these four "elements" actually are elemental. Show your working.

    3/ Show me where the Quran mentions this process took millions of years.

    4/ Explain how this supposed process is a good analogy for Darwinian evolution via spontaneous mutation combined with natural selection.

    What I describe is based on my understanding through divine knowledge.

    We ourselves are the four elements of water, fire, wind and dust (soil).

    We breathe using wind (Air), thirst we drink (water), our bodies need to eat (soil 'food') and we sweat the heat of the flames (fire)..

    Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path). (al-Baqarah 2:18)
  • Adam - the first human?
     Reply #47 - March 03, 2014, 09:02 PM

    Sweat is for cooling not venting heat...
  • Adam - the first human?
     Reply #48 - March 03, 2014, 09:08 PM

    Bogart

    The sweat takes the heat from the body.

    Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path). (al-Baqarah 2:18)
  • Re: Adam - the first human?
     Reply #49 - March 03, 2014, 09:09 PM

    We breathe using wind (Air), thirst we drink (water), our bodies need to eat (soil 'food') and we sweat the heat of the flames (fire)..

    Please stop making the world stupider.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Adam - the first human?
     Reply #50 - March 03, 2014, 09:09 PM

    What I describe is based on my understanding through divine knowledge.

    We ourselves are the four elements of water, fire, wind and dust (soil).

    We breathe using wind (Air), thirst we drink (water), our bodies need to eat (soil 'food') and we sweat the heat of the flames (fire)..

    Ok, so the short version is "Derp". Well why didn't you just say so?

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Adam - the first human?
     Reply #51 - March 03, 2014, 09:12 PM

    If that's what divine knowledge would look like, thank fuck God doesn't exist.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Adam - the first human?
     Reply #52 - March 03, 2014, 09:18 PM

    Anyway SAM, you didn't deal with what I asked you. You just avoided it all.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Adam - the first human?
     Reply #53 - March 03, 2014, 09:23 PM

    What I describe is based on my understanding through divine knowledge.

    We ourselves are the four elements of water, fire, wind and dust (soil).

    We breathe using wind (Air), thirst we drink (water), our bodies need to eat (soil 'food') and we sweat the heat of the flames (fire)..



    I think this answers my question from last night in the shoutbox about what happens when you read the Quran stoned…
  • Adam - the first human?
     Reply #54 - March 03, 2014, 09:26 PM

     Cheesy Drugs are bad, mmk?

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Adam - the first human?
     Reply #55 - March 03, 2014, 09:29 PM

    I'm no scientist but i'm not sure i totally beleive in darwins theory of evolution and natural selection, if it were correct then we and all other creatures would still be evolving into what i dont know, it wouldnt end, i do, however wonder if perhaps there is another type of evolution, creationism - a mutation an adaption of sorts that originated from a planned program of intelligent design.  Maybe life was planted here, the evidence is hinted at in the bible and quran etc that Adam was given, by an angel "visitor" a white stone that they claimed was used to start life on earth and Adam buried it and created a shrine, the stone later turned black over time.  I would love to know what the kaba stone is made of, perhaps the story is just a local legend Smiley    The story in the bible and quran about different coloured races red, blue etc has now been proven to be true, we share dna with one female (i forgot her given name)who settled out of africa into europe and gave birth soley to all the races, think its called caucasion ? sounds incredible but it's a true event according to some docu i watched recently..   Oh and the adam and eve story, i read an interesting account in some new agey type book recently, the book claims that adam and eve were not the first humans but alien/angel visitors who came to teach us about God and help us make a civilization, because at the time we were worshipping the sun and stars, according to this book, we created a beautiful garden for them in the cyprus region, later they had a second garden in Iraq.. Just sharing a whacky account, not my beliefs !   Smiley
  • Adam - the first human?
     Reply #56 - March 03, 2014, 09:33 PM

    You're new at this, right? grin12

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Adam - the first human?
     Reply #57 - March 03, 2014, 09:35 PM


    I think this answers my question from last night in the shoutbox about what happens when you read the Quran stoned…


    This is what happened to me:


    Surah 1 In the name of allah the really fucking cool. We worship you. show us the way.

    Surah2 This is a book of guidance for believers. Believers are really cool. Nonbelievers wont believe whether or not you warn them. Allah has set a seal on their hearts, and they are pretty much fucked. People who only pretend to believe in Allah are also fucked.. Worship allah, who invented the universe etc. But if you don’t believe this book, then see if you can make a verse as brilliant as these. When you fail, you should be afraid of hell, because you are screwed. Allah doesn’t mind using analogies that may sound stupid. Allah created you, and everything else, and he knows everything. Allah said he was going to make adam as a deputy on earth. But the angels thought that was a bad idea. Allah taught adam the names of stuff on earth. The angels didn’t know the names of this stuff, and so they realized that allah knew what he was doing, and they bowed down to adam. One of them didn’t bow because he rejects faith. Allah warned adam of the tree in the garden of eden, but satan screwed things up for adam and eve, and they had to live on earth instead of the garden of eden. Allah will give you guidance but if you reject it, you are screwed. Believe this, be scared, and worship allah. Yo jews. Remember that you were my chosen people. And I sorted you out. Don’t deny me, worship me. You fucked up quite a few times. I forgave you but you were pretty unappreciative and spoilt. When I asked you to sacrifice a cow, you were fannying around because you didn’t know which type of cow to sacrifice.

    When you killed someone, you accused each other. I said, hit the dead guy with a piece of cow. That’s how I bring people back to life, and show you a miracle. But you were stubborn, and I wont forget it.

    Given that jews knowingly corrupt the quran, can you really expect them to believe you. They pretend to believe when they are with muslims, but get pissed off with each other for chatting to muslims about what I have revealed to them, because it could be used against them. Some people make fake holy books. They are screwed. But the righteous believers will be in paradise You Jews broke my covenant, and are screwed. I know about all the shit you get up to. What was your beef with jesus? You know this book is the truth, why deny it? You are screwed.

    “The disbelievers will suffer a humiliating torment.” They say they don’t believe this book, but I don’t see why, because it confirms my earlier work. They are such dickheads, greedy too. I might change my mind and contradict myself, but just roll with it. Just go with whatever I am currently saying Muslims are cool. Allah is cool. He is too cool to have a son. He is seriously cool, honestly. Idiots wonder why I havnt provided any evidence, but I have. It’s very clear. Anyone who doesn’t believe this book is certainly a loser.

    Use Mecca as a place for prayer. Abraham asked me to provide for the believers in Mecca. I said I would, but I’m going to fuck over the deniers. By the way, Abraham is cool. He is a muslim, not a jew or a Christian. If you don’t believe that, ask yourself who knows more. Me or you? Muslims and muhammed are an example for everyone to follow. You should face mecca when you pray. I know that I have changed the direction from Jerusalem to mecca, but it is a test.

    People who die for my cause are not really dead. They are cool. I shall test you through suffering, you better not moan too much.

    Atheists will be condemned by me, the angels, and all people. They “will have no relief from the torment, and no attention will be paid to them”. If you are not too stupid, you will realise that rain, winds, clouds, etc are all evidence of my existence. Unbelievers are really dumb.

    There is lots of shit you should not eat, but I wont mind if its an emergency. Unbelievers will burn etc. Fasting is mandatory during Ramadan, but you are allowed to Shag your wives. Don’t enter a house through the back door. Fight in my name, the people who fight you. Kill them wherever you find them. Being a disbeliever is worse than murder. Disbelievers deserve to be slayed, unless they convert to Islam. Fight them until they are no longer atheists and non muslims. Fight them until Islam is dominant. Chill out if they convert.

    Do a pilgrimage to Mecca.

    Even though you don’t like fighting, it is mandatory, and its good for you. I don’t care what good an apostate has done in his life. He is fucked, forever. A womans period is a pollution. Don’t go near them. Your wives are your property. You can shag them whenever you want. Men are above women. ….rules about how long to wait after divorce, breastfeeding, marriage, prayers, loans…. Allah is cool. Muhammed is cool. Jesus is cool. Allah is cool Nobody can ever learn anything unless I let them. Allah is cool. Interest sucks, so does alcohol. Allah is brilliant, and mega powerful.

    Surah 3 Allah is brilliant and unique and sent down The quran which confirms previous messages. It is a guide and a criterion for right and wrong. Non believers are fucked. Allah is really clever and knows everything and created mankind.

    The main parts of the quran have a clear meaning, but other parts are shit, and nobody can understand them. Dickheads will follow the shit parts. Non muslims are definately fucked. Tell them they are fucked

    Its better to aim to be close to Allah than for worldy possessions. Try to convince christians and jews to become muslims. Some will refuse because they think they are safe. but in fact, they are fucked. Don't choose a non muslim as a friend over a muslim. Allah is nice to those who submit.

    Some woman dedicated her kid called mary to Allah, and Allah liked this, and made sure that mary and her offspring had it sorted. Some old guy noticed that Allah had sorted her out, and asked allah for him and his old and infertile wife to have a kid. Allah said yes, and explained that he can sort it out. Allah chose Mary to give birth to a messenger for the jews called jesus. Mary was confused because she was a virgin, but allah said he can sort it out.

    Jesus could do miracles to prove that he was a prophet. But still some people werent convinced, and these people plotted and planned. But allah is better at plotting and planning and told jesus that he would defend him from all the bullshit the plotters chat. Non muslims are fucked, muslims get rewarded.

    Dont doubt the quran. If anyone disagrees with this, get your crew together and pray for a curse on this person. There is only one god, and he is definately really great, and that is true.

    Ask the christians and the jews why they doubt my story about abraham being a muslim. They dont know what they are talking about. They shouldnt talk about things they have no idea about. christians and jews are shit for many different reasons. If you have this book, and you understand it properly, you will definately be a muslim, and call others to be. Angels and prophets cannot be gods, only the morons believe that.

    Once you submit to allah, allah gives you belief, and so its not possible to no longer believe in Islam. Anybody who leaves Islam is a "perverted transgressor". All things obey allah, whether willingly or unwillingly. Islam is the only acceptable religion. non muslims are going to hell. If you leave islam and then come back, that will probably be OK, but if you dont, you are FUCKED!

    you have to make some sacrifices. Jews made up their own dietary laws. The message I gave them was true. If they make stuff up that I didnt say, they are lying.

    The first mosque was at Mecca, and you have to go there, unless you cant afford to. the christians and jews are trying to obstruct people from the right path, and if you listen to them you might leave islam, which doesnt make sense. Definately be a muslim. Muslims are cool.

    Allah's signs are clear. dont dispute them and become divided. If you do, you are fucked.

    On judgement day, non muslims will have black faces, and are fucked. This is not unjust because Allah is brilliant and he says so. Muslims are the best. Most Christians and Jews are twats. They are annoying, but they cant hurt you. Allah is angry with these destitute, and shameful rebels. But some of them are alright.

    Non muslims are fucked, and they only have themselves to blame. Stick to your own. Other people want to fuck you up. They may say that they believe in islam, but they are bullshitting. Don't trust these cunts.

    Allah helped you win some battles because you were shit and needed a lot of help. Show some gratitude.

    Allah owns everything, and he does whatever the fuck he likes. He is most forgiving and merciful. Non muslims are fucked. Heaven is a garden with rivers, as big as the universe in which you can live forever. Its very nice. But only Allah can forgive sins and this book is a guide to get you there.

    If you get harmed, makes sure the others get harmed too. These things are tests for believers, and Allah may take some people as martyr witnesses. Allah tests those who fight in his name and who wished for death.

    muhammed is just one of a long line of messengers. Allah rewards people who serve Muhammed. Submitters will be rewarded in this life and the next. Many prophets faught for Allah, and they didnt mind even if they failed, and they never gave up. Allah rewarded them with some really cool stuff. Allah helps and protects muslims from the unbelievers. "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the unbelievers" because they joined partners with Allah. They are fucked.

    Allah gave you permission to annihilate your enemy, but you started messing around, thinking about the booty. Some of you are more interested in this world than the next. But He forgave you because you are muslims.

    Dont be like the unbelievers, who are cowards. If allah has decreed that you are going to die, then you are going to die, whether you fight or not. It is better to be dead and forgiven, than alive and unforgiven. Trust in Allah. If it is his will, you will always win. Don't think of those who die in my name as dead. Dont fear anything except me. Non muslims are fucked. Be a Muslim.

    Allah has given clear signs. people who reject them are fucked. muslims are rewarded. blah blah blah. non muslims are fucked. hell. Heaven. hell. heaven. yadda yadda. Fear Allah


    I did the next chapter too later on, but I think the quran goes significantly downhill after the first few surahs, and they were tedious enough already.
  • Re: Adam - the first human?
     Reply #58 - March 03, 2014, 09:39 PM

    I'm no scientist but i'm not sure i totally beleive in darwins theory of evolution and natural selection, if it were correct then we and all other creatures would still be evolving into what i dont know, it wouldnt end,


    you are right as to what evolution would mean, but that is happening. Everything is 'still' evolving. It doesn't end.

    Quote
       The story in the bible and quran about different coloured races red, blue etc has now been proven to be true, we share dna with one female


    that is not accurate. You are referring to mitochondrial Eve. It is a complicated thing that is badly presented in the media, and badly understood by many. It basically has no connection to what you think it might be.
  • Adam - the first human?
     Reply #59 - March 03, 2014, 09:41 PM

     Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Best translation ever. (the surah stuff)

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
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