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Theme Changer

 Topic: Divine Command Theory

 (Read 5144 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Divine Command Theory
     OP - March 20, 2014, 04:45 AM
    If Allah said that eternally torturing babies is OK, does that really make it OK?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJkrDvhwwPE
    Me: Hey Allah!
    Allah: KAFIR!
  • Divine Command Theory
     Reply #1 - March 20, 2014, 05:03 AM
    Define "moral".
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Divine Command Theory
     Reply #2 - March 20, 2014, 05:12 AM
    Concerned with the principles of right and wrong behavior and the goodness or badness of human character.
    Me: Hey Allah!
    Allah: KAFIR!
  • Divine Command Theory
     Reply #3 - March 20, 2014, 05:16 AM
    Ok, so in that case it would definitely be moral, since it would be an issue concerned with the principles of right and wrong behavior and the goodness or badness of human character.

    There. That was easy. Smiley
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Divine Command Theory
     Reply #4 - March 20, 2014, 11:45 AM
    i think this guy is a proper philosopher or something
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgt-R-YlOX8
  • Divine Command Theory
     Reply #5 - March 20, 2014, 03:49 PM
    Isn't divine command theory just a fancy way of saying.  "It's wrong because God said so"


    Huh?
    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Divine Command Theory
     Reply #6 - March 20, 2014, 04:17 PM
    Yup.  Afro
    Me: Hey Allah!
    Allah: KAFIR!
  • Divine Command Theory
     Reply #7 - March 20, 2014, 04:45 PM
    but because that sounds obviously stupid, they will often instead say its wrong "because its against god's nature" or something, which is actually exactly the same thing, and has the exact same problems.
  • Divine Command Theory
     Reply #8 - March 20, 2014, 05:28 PM
    I've never heard a good response to the Euthyphro Dilemma.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Divine Command Theory
     Reply #9 - March 20, 2014, 06:34 PM
    Quote
    Divine Command Theory


    Hmmm... i don't like those two  words.  So by the command and demand of demented divine i Change it to... Divine Comedy Theory  or putting in a proper way..  

    'Theory of Demented Divine Comedy"  from brainless folks
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Divine Command Theory
     Reply #10 - March 20, 2014, 06:59 PM
    Quote from: Ishina on March 20, 2014, 05:28 PM
    I've never heard a good response to the Euthyphro Dilemma.


    the best response i heard was "your [sic] just using words"
    it was true. I was using words. He had me cornered.
  • Divine Command Theory
     Reply #11 - March 20, 2014, 09:29 PM
    An iron-clad argument.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Divine Command Theory
     Reply #12 - March 20, 2014, 11:26 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on March 20, 2014, 06:34 PM
    Hmmm... i don't like those two  words.  So by the command and demand of demented divine i Change it to... Divine Comedy Theory  or putting in a proper way..  

    'Theory of Demented Divine Comedy"  from brainless folks


    Lol, that's a fitting name  Afro
    Me: Hey Allah!
    Allah: KAFIR!
  • Divine Command Theory
     Reply #13 - April 05, 2014, 10:11 AM
    Tzortzis's predictable and worthless response to the Euthyphro dilemma.  He seems to think the dilemma is that god might change his mind.
    There doesn't seem to be a single topic he actually understands. It would be so embarrassing if the spokespeople for my religion were as useless as this.

    (objectve morality comes from god's nature, because thats true by definition)


    http://youtu.be/tjazZ-T8V4Y?t=28m53s
  • Divine Command Theory
     Reply #14 - April 05, 2014, 12:36 PM
    Quote from: Ishina on March 20, 2014, 05:28 PM
    I've never heard a good response to the Euthyphro Dilemma.


    The response by which I was most impressed as a believer involved VCR instruction manuals and God's knowledge. Essentially, it said things are not good simply because God commands them nor is there a standard of good that exists independently of God. Instead, human beings as a creation have a method by which they can function optimally, just as a VCR comes with instructions on how it can perform optimally. Since God is our creator, he would be analogous to the "manufacturer" of the VCR who knows what is best for it. Therefore, the manufacturer's instructions are best not because they are arbitrarily set by the manufacturer, but because the manufacturer alone knows how his product is best meant to operate. 
  • Divine Command Theory
     Reply #15 - April 05, 2014, 01:13 PM
    Quote from: dr_sloth on March 20, 2014, 11:45 AM
    i think this guy is a proper philosopher or something


    Good stuff. I liked this one on certainty, truth, and capacity for doubt.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KC9bZ3jzf0U
  • Divine Command Theory
     Reply #16 - April 05, 2014, 03:21 PM
    Quote from: happymurtad on April 05, 2014, 12:36 PM
    The response by which I was most impressed as a believer involved VCR instruction manuals and God's knowledge. Essentially, it said things are not good simply because God commands them nor is there a standard of good that exists independently of God. Instead, human beings as a creation have a method by which they can function optimally, just as a VCR comes with instructions on how it can perform optimally. Since God is our creator, he would be analogous to the "manufacturer" of the VCR who knows what is best for it. Therefore, the manufacturer's instructions are best not because they are arbitrarily set by the manufacturer, but because the manufacturer alone knows how his product is best meant to operate. 

    That' doesn't resolve the dilemma though. It just begs the question again. Is the design optimal because that's the best design for optimal function? Or is it optimal because that's just how the designer wanted it? The former implies a reality external to the designer and conditions/mechanics that must be overcome. The latter implies optimal is just the whim of the designer. It's the exact same problem again.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Divine Command Theory
     Reply #17 - April 05, 2014, 03:37 PM
    I guess that depends on whether or not we consider the purpose of the function to be in relation to the designer or in relation to something else. If we consider the purpose of the thing created to be in relation to the designer, then the designer's instructions will always be "good" as it will ensure that the created thing always functions in a manner that corresponds to and is consistent with its purpose. "Good," then, could not exist independently of the designer and the purpose behind the design.

    Does the question of the purpose then become arbitrary and subject to the whims of the designer at that point? Of course. But the question of what is "good" does not.
  • Divine Command Theory
     Reply #18 - April 05, 2014, 03:58 PM
    Quote from: happymurtad on April 05, 2014, 03:37 PM
    If we consider the purpose of the thing created to be in relation to the designer, then the designer's instructions will always be "good" as it will ensure that the created thing always functions in a manner that corresponds to and is consistent with its purpose. "Good," then, could not exist independently of the designer and the purpose behind the design.

    Does the question of the purpose then become arbitrary and subject to the whims of the designer at that point? Of course. But the question of what is "good" does not.

    This is the second horn of the dilemma. Good is therefore arbitrary, since "good" is defined as optimal usage of an arbitrary design, designed for an arbitrary purpose. Good, since it could be another way, loses it's necessity.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Divine Command Theory
     Reply #19 - April 05, 2014, 04:18 PM
    I don't disagree with what you are saying, which is why I can no longer find this rebuttal satisfying.  I do think it shifts the problem up a little, from the arbitrary nature of goodness to the arbitrary nature of the purpose. Still, though, goodness ultimately does become arbitrary by this extension, as you assert.

    In other words, to use the analogy I was given of the VCR, if the instruction manual I was given leads to whatever an "optimal function" of my VCR might mean to me, then it is still subjected to my own whim of wanting an "optimally functioning" VCR as defined by my whim. If instead I wanted my VCR to function as a step-stool to help me reach books on my top shelf, then would my ignoring of all of those instructions as I proceed to place the VCR on the ground and stand on it be a good thing or a bad thing? Who gets to decide that? The designer? The consumer? Or, if the VCR could somehow have a say in this (as it is meant to represent the "human" element in this analogy) should its whims be considered when determining what is good?

    I guess the theist who presented this analogy would be forced to say that the designer always gets the final say as to what the VCR's optimal performance should look like. But that begs the question: why?
  • Divine Command Theory
     Reply #20 - April 05, 2014, 04:36 PM
    I think that VCR analogy has bigger problems too, not related to the Euthyphro dilemma. One problem is that it evaporates when we apply it to any kind of context or subject it to any kind of specificity. Presuming the design is the universe, what is optimal use of the universe? What does optimal use even mean when applied to the universe's constituent parts making use of the system? Isn't a parasite operating optimally when it makes use of a child's eyeball? Isn't a predator making optimal use of the universe when it hunts and kills a straggler to eat? Isn't a sociopath making optimal use of the universe when they capitalise on their situation and exploit those around them for maximum net gain? Lots of really bad things can be said to be more practical, optimal, peak performance for certain ends within the system. We're clearly no longer talking about morally good conduct when we say optimally good conduct.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Divine Command Theory
     Reply #21 - April 05, 2014, 04:39 PM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGx8qHdxcpE
  • Divine Command Theory
     Reply #22 - April 05, 2014, 04:51 PM
    Quote from: Ishina on April 05, 2014, 04:36 PM
    I think that VCR analogy has bigger problems too, not related to the Euthyphro dilemma. One problem is that it evaporates when we apply it to any kind of context or subject it to any kind of specificity. Presuming the design is the universe, what is optimal use of the universe? What does optimal use even mean when applied to the universe's constituent parts making use of the system? Isn't a parasite operating optimally when it makes use of a child's eyeball? Isn't a predator making optimal use of the universe when it hunts and kills a straggler to eat? Isn't a sociopath making optimal use of the universe when they capitalise on their situation and exploit those around them for maximum net gain? Lots of really bad things can be said to be more practical, optimal, peak performance for certain ends within the system. We're clearly no longer talking about morally good conduct when we say optimally good conduct.


    Yes. You are absolutely correct. It is a problem that the Abrahamic faiths in particular face, though I'm not sure how much it affects other versions of theism. It ties into the entire idea of the purpose of creation and God's will. Everything in creation would in essence be enacting what is "good," from Satan, to the disbeliever, to the Antichrist, because they would all be acting optimally according to the fulfillment of God's plan.
  • Divine Command Theory
     Reply #23 - April 05, 2014, 05:40 PM
     
    Quote from: happymurtad on April 05, 2014, 04:51 PM
     faiths
     from Satan,
    God's plan.

    happy_M..

    there is no faiths  no Satan, no God's plan.
    and there is no Divine Command Theory
    that was Divine Con Man Theory
    it was all Divine Con Man Theory for the past 2000 years..
    what is left is faith in yourself and faith in humanity .........

    So have a beer and  watch a movie   and..and write something that could be made it as a movie..  

    something like "Broken Trail"



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ME1tayKHJo

    Damn  Half the movie is already in tube.....
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
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