The Sin of Adam and Eve

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- Rubaya
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The Sin of Adam and Eve
OP - April 08, 2014, 01:47 PM

OK it's quite clear to me that Christians (except for Unitarian Christians) and Jews hold the belief that everyone is entitled to bear the burden of the sins of Adam and Eve in heaven. Here are my questions-

1. Christians believe that the crucifixion of Christ saved them from the sin. What is there to save the Jews from it?

2. Does Islam have this concept too? I have come across many Muslims who say that there is no such belief in Islam. Everyone is responsible for his or her own sins. But then I came across this hadith: Were it not for Bani Israel, meat would not have gone bad. And were it not for Eve, no woman would have betrayed her husband. why is this hadith contradicting the Quran which puts the blame on both these individuals equally?
- Cornflower
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Reply #1 - April 08, 2014, 01:52 PM

Aimple and straight-forward, Islam is contradicory. There are a lot of texts like that, that made at least me confused and disatisfied with the lame "explenations" you sometimes was given. Anyway, there is no original sin, but we do have the fitrah doctrine that screws thing up a little bit.

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- Quod Sum Eris
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Reply #2 - April 08, 2014, 02:17 PM

The jews are god's chosen people. The Abrahamic god was originally their god don't forget. While the rest of the world was damned, jews had hope for salvation as the chosen people.

When I first began to learn about islam, one of the things I found attractive about it was that it has no concept of original sin. Then I learned a little more about the religion and realised, yes, it does. It just calls it something else.

The concept of original sin Is that we are born corrupt, in need of "saving" from our wicked natures ever since Adam and Eve were thrown out of the garden of Eden for defying god and eating the forbidden fruit. We went from perfect to imperfect, and cannot function on our own. Our very natures damn us, and so we need guidance and "saving" from the hellfire that we will go to after death unless we do and say and believe certain things, which only became necessary after our fall from grace and the corruption of man.

The whole thing is a perverse mind fuck.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
- ibn Bilal
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The Sin of Adam and Eve
Reply #3 - April 08, 2014, 02:21 PM

Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on April 08, 2014, 02:17 PM
The jews are god's chosen people. The Abrahamic god was originally their god don't forget. While the rest of the world was damned, jews had hope for salvation as the chosen people.

It wasn’t exactly “salvation,” either. Not the way that we typically understand the term at least. Judaism was more of an attempt to get on Yahweh’s good side so that he would help them out in this life. The entire concepts of “salvation” and “damnation” in some extra-terrestrial plane of existence emerged later.
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Reply #4 - April 08, 2014, 02:50 PM

Point being they were the only ones that could get on his good side. God's chosen few and all.

Rubaya, the god of the old testament/torah is very much the god of the quran. All wrath and sadism and wickedness and pettiness and evil. Just as only the muslims can please the god of the quran, only the jews can please the god of the OT/torah. The rest of us are fucked.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
- bogart
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Reply #5 - April 08, 2014, 04:11 PM

Quote from: Rubaya on April 08, 2014, 01:47 PM
OK it's quite clear to me that Christians (except for Unitarian Christians) and Jews hold the belief that everyone is entitled to bear the burden of the sins of Adam and Eve in heaven. Here are my questions-

1. Christians believe that the crucifixion of Christ saved them from the sin. What is there to save the Jews from it?

2. Does Islam have this concept too? I have come across many Muslims who say that there is no such belief in Islam. Everyone is responsible for his or her own sins. But then I came across this hadith: Were it not for Bani Israel, meat would not have gone bad. And were it not for Eve, no woman would have betrayed her husband. why is this hadith contradicting the Quran which puts the blame on both these individuals equally?

There is no original sin in Judaism, this is solely a Christian invention in order to propagate salvation through Jesus. Jews have no need of salvation as they are the only people which went to heaven. Jews were never sent to Hell as this was never a destination for the wicked. The wicked were sent to a Jewish form of purgatory for a period of no more than 100 years. The wickedness of the person dictated the time spent there. During this period Jews were purified then sent to heaven.
- suki
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Reply #6 - April 08, 2014, 04:47 PM

Jews are not the chosen people anyway dunno why they claim they are nor why we even accept the rubbish, the hebrews or chosen people were of many tribes that lived together in that region , the jews were of shem who migrated to europe, the other tribes stayed in east africa and the mid east..
- bogart
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Reply #7 - April 08, 2014, 04:52 PM

Well G-d is a Jewish figure. It was never a regional god, it was strictly a figure connected to one cultural/tribal grouping. This figure only become god of the world with Islam and Christianity. Granted this figure is just a upstart Canaanite god but I am just following what the Jews thought on their own religion. Heck Jews acknowledged other gods were real, their god lost a number of encounters with other cultural/tribe figures in the OT.
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