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 Topic: Taqiyya (or however you prefer to spell it)

 (Read 2412 times)
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  • Taqiyya (or however you prefer to spell it)
     OP - May 03, 2014, 05:35 PM
    The claim that we should not trust Muslims at all due to the concept of taqiyya is being circulated via twitter.

    Please share your views regarding the above (underlined) statement.

    (I am planning to work on a refutation of this alarmist claim)
    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • Taqiyyah (or however you prefer to spell it)
     Reply #1 - May 03, 2014, 05:38 PM
    Didn't you start this thread already once like a couple of days ago?
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Taqiyya (or however you prefer to spell it)
     Reply #2 - May 03, 2014, 05:39 PM
    Never trust a muslim. Even if they swear on the quran. It's not like when christians swear on a bible, muslims have taqiyya. Smiley
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Taqiyyah (or however you prefer to spell it)
     Reply #3 - May 03, 2014, 05:40 PM
    Quote from: Cornflower on May 03, 2014, 05:38 PM
    Didn't you start this thread already once like a couple of days ago?

    I smell taqiyya ...

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=26318.msg749016#msg749016
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Taqiyyah (or however you prefer to spell it)
     Reply #4 - May 03, 2014, 05:42 PM
    Yeah CF, but I felt that I digressed too far due to permissible deception and the introduction of Al Ghazali'a views. What I really mean is that this thread is centered around the illogic (unsoundness) of the aforementioned claim.
    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • Taqiyya (or however you prefer to spell it)
     Reply #5 - May 03, 2014, 05:43 PM
    @Quod
    How do I know that you aren't lying,right now?!

    Oh you're not a Muslim... never mind.
    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • Taqiyya (or however you prefer to spell it)
     Reply #6 - May 03, 2014, 05:45 PM
     Wink
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Taqiyya (or however you prefer to spell it)
     Reply #7 - May 03, 2014, 05:51 PM
    The claim pretty much hinges on the accuser positing that the accused is guilty of taqiyya. Subsequently, any response to the accusation can be "dismissed" by this presupposition.

    This is a mockery of the burden of proof, for instance:

    Me: Quod, I claim that you are guilty of crime X, you must now prove your innocence.
    Quod: No.

    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • Taqiyya (or however you prefer to spell it)
     Reply #8 - May 03, 2014, 05:57 PM
    Not quite that far. Basically it means muslims aren't to be trusted. Someone who lies often isn't trustworthy. Someone who's religion let's them lie isn't trustworthy.

    From what I understand, the quran (or was it a hadith?) said it's permissible to lie if you're in danger or something.

    So got a link to the twitter trend?
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Taqiyya (or however you prefer to spell it)
     Reply #9 - May 03, 2014, 06:03 PM
    Oh, it's not an actual trend as in:

    #Muslimsareliars

    There are just certain people on twitter who are advocating this & thinking that they are smart.

    In terms of my analogy, that's pretty much how the taqiyya accusation is set up. I then compared it to the burden of proof to show how silly the claim is.

    As far as I know, both Quranic verses & ahadith can be used to support taqiyya. E.g. Shias might use Quranic verses in an attempt to show that there is divine authorisation for taqiyya and Sunnis may disagree.

    The self preservation aspect of Taqiyya is sensible, Jews who (e)migrated from Iberia to regions under the Ottoman empire also performed dissimulation.



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     permissible deception can be found within Sunni hadith. Permissible deception has certain prerequisites but this is not the same as taqiyya which is a doctrine of self (ideology) preservation, initially found in Shi'a Islam. As far as I am aware, the term "taqiyya" does not even exist in Sunni jurisprudence.
    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • Taqiyya (or however you prefer to spell it)
     Reply #10 - May 03, 2014, 06:05 PM
    This has actually been going on for a while.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Taqiyya (or however you prefer to spell it)
     Reply #11 - May 03, 2014, 06:12 PM
     I agree.
    It is definitely popular within certain EDL circles.
    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • Taqiyya (or however you prefer to spell it)
     Reply #12 - May 03, 2014, 08:47 PM
    Taqiyya was a concept employed by shias to avoid persecution by the sunni majority. Muslims are not by default liars.

    The doctrine started off with quite noble intentions.
  • Taqiyya (or however you prefer to spell it)
     Reply #13 - May 03, 2014, 10:38 PM
    Hassan to the rescue!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjZSJg1HQpc
    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Taqiyya (or however you prefer to spell it)
     Reply #14 - May 03, 2014, 10:40 PM
    I've seen Hassan & Klingschor's videos Tongue
    I am working on my own version.
    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
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