Talking Snake in Islam?

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Talking Snake in Islam?
OP - June 04, 2014, 03:39 PM

We all know that there is no mention of a talking snake in the Qur'an or hadiths, and that it was Satan who deceived Eve. However, what's important to note is that Satan is from the Jinn race, meaning that he can transform himself into any creature. It's physically impossible to see Jinn becuz they're invisible, but you can see animals and Muslims have no problem with thinking that some animals are Jinn.

What I'm trying to say is that a talking snake may not have been mentioned in the Qur'an or hadiths, but Satan may have transformed himself to be a snake. What are your thoughts on this?

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Reply #1 - June 04, 2014, 03:53 PM

Like, do we think that's what actually happened?
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Reply #2 - June 04, 2014, 03:54 PM

Yea, do you think Satan was a talking snake or not?

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Reply #3 - June 04, 2014, 03:58 PM

I'd say none of it likely happened.
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Reply #4 - June 04, 2014, 04:07 PM

Maybe it was a Decepticon. They are masters of disguise.

Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
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Reply #5 - June 04, 2014, 04:23 PM

Just to indulge for a moment, though, there are a few interesting points to note about the genesis story. First off, God tells Adam that if he eats from the Tree of Knowledge, he will die. Satan, on the other hand, tells Adam that that is foolishness. He won’t die, but will instead gain a conscience and the ability to tell good from evil. So, God was lying here and Satan was telling the truth. Who is the real enemy? Why did God want for Adam to remain a mindless robot?

After Adam and Eve eat of the tree, God is so upset that they have now become “as one of us, knowing good from evil” that he banishes Adam to earth, cursing Adam to waste his time toiling for a living and cursing women to endure pain through childbirth. All the while, we are made to believe that satan, the one who selflessly sought to open our eyes, was evil, while God, who lied to us, cursed us, and banished us to this distant planet, was good.

While God orders the destruction of towns, the annihilation of cultures and tribes, and the abandonment of beliefs in other gods and spirits because of his jealousy, Satan encourages us to be ourselves. Which one sounds more evil to you?
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Reply #6 - June 04, 2014, 04:34 PM

Religion makes so much more sense if you swap the words good and evil around.

Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
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Reply #7 - June 04, 2014, 04:37 PM

If I hadn't just changed my signature I'd make that it.

Edit: You know what? That's awesome. I'm making it my signature anyway.
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Reply #8 - June 04, 2014, 04:39 PM

The Bible claims that Satan is the father of lies, yet it's ironic how he tells the truth. The Qur'an on the other hand has no problem with Allah being the best of deceivers. According to a hadith, Abu Bakr feared that Allah might deceive him and send him to Hell. It's frightening that people believe in a deceiving Omnipotent god.

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Reply #9 - June 04, 2014, 04:58 PM

Getting gnostic and Zarathustran here aren't we?

Wiki needs editing on this!

Quote
At the age of 30, Zoroaster received a revelation. While Zoroaster was fetching water from dawn for a sacred ritual, he saw the shining figure of the yazata, Vohu Manah, who led Zoroaster to the presence of Ahura Mazda, where he was taught the cardinal principles of the Good Religion. As a result of this vision, Zoroaster felt that he was chosen to spread and preach the religion.[9] He stated that this source of all goodness was the only Ahura worthy of the highest worship. He further stated that Ahura Mazda created spirits known as yazatas to aid him, who also merited devotion. Zoroaster proclaimed that all of the Iranian daevas were bad spirits and deserved no worship. These "bad" spirits were created by Angra Mainyu, the hostile and evil spirit. The existence of Angra Mainyu was the source of all sin and misery in the universe. Zoroaster claimed that Ahura Mazda was not an omnipotent God, but used the aid of humans in the cosmic struggle against Angra Mainyu. Nonetheless, Ahura Mazda is Angra Mainyu's superior, not his equal. Angra Mainyu and his daevas (spirits) which attempt to afflict humans away from the path of righteousness (oasha) would eventually be destroyed.[10]

Funny how some myths and stories got a stamp of approval! Imagine if people treated Homer like the Koran!

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Reply #10 - June 04, 2014, 05:02 PM

Treating it all as myth and story, which are the better stories?

Quote

The Creation of Man by Prometheus

Prometheus and Epimetheus were spared imprisonment in Tartarus because they had not fought with their fellow Titans during the war with the Olympians. They were given the task of creating man. Prometheus shaped man out of mud, and Athena breathed life into his clay figure.

Prometheus had assigned Epimetheus the task of giving the creatures of the earth their various qualities, such as swiftness, cunning, strength, fur, wings. Unfortunately, by the time he got to man Epimetheus had given all the good qualities out and there were none left for man. So Prometheus decided to make man stand upright as the gods did and to give them fire.

Prometheus loved man more then the Olympians, who had banished most of his family to Tartarus. So when Zeus decreed that man must present a portion of each animal they scarified to the gods Prometheus decided to trick Zeus. He created two piles, one with the bones wrapped in juicy fat, the other with the good meat hidden in the hide. He then bade Zeus to pick. Zeus picked the bones. Since he had given his word Zeus had to accept that as his share for future sacrifices. In his anger over the trick he took fire away from man. However, Prometheus lit a torch from the sun and brought it back again to man. Zeus was enraged that man again had fire. He decided to inflict a terrible punishment on both man and Prometheus.

To punish man, Zeus had Hephaestus create a mortal of stunning beauty. The gods gave the mortal many gifts of wealth. He then had Hermes give the mortal a deceptive heart and a lying tongue. This creation was Pandora, the first women. A final gift was a jar which Pandora was forbidden to open. Thus, completed Zeus sent Pandora down to Epimetheus who was staying amongst the men.

http://www.greekmythology.com/Myths/The_Myths/Creation_of_Man_by_Prometheus/creation_of_man_by_prometheus.html

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

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Reply #11 - June 04, 2014, 05:27 PM

Quote from: happymurtad on June 04, 2014, 04:23 PM
Just to indulge for a moment, though, there are a few interesting points to note about the genesis story. First off, God tells Adam that if he eats from the Tree of Knowledge, he will die. Satan, on the other hand, tells Adam that that is foolishness. He won’t die, but will instead gain a conscience and the ability to tell good from evil. So, God was lying here and Satan was telling the truth. Who is the real enemy? Why did God want for Adam to remain a mindless robot?

After Adam and Eve eat of the tree, God is so upset that they have now become “as one of us, knowing good from evil” that he banishes Adam to earth, cursing Adam to waste his time toiling for a living and cursing women to endure pain through childbirth. All the while, we are made to believe that satan, the one who selflessly sought to open our eyes, was evil, while God, who lied to us, cursed us, and banished us to this distant planet, was good.

While God orders the destruction of towns, the annihilation of cultures and tribes, and the abandonment of beliefs in other gods and spirits because of his jealousy, Satan encourages us to be ourselves. Which one sounds more evil to you?

This made me think of Al Pacino's little speech about god. Actually, I never appreciated that part of the movie as much as I do now =)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jARp24AJWLk

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Reply #12 - June 04, 2014, 05:32 PM

Nice.

I thought about that the other day while eating some really great bacon from a local spot. Allah, they would have you believe, thoroughly perfected the taste of bacon, then made it prohibited for no good reason apart for his own whim. What a sicko.
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Reply #13 - June 04, 2014, 05:44 PM

On a side note, I absolutely love Pacino's performance in this scene. I know some think he is over-acting it, but in my mind his mannerism, expressions and his overall performance is perfection

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Reply #14 - June 04, 2014, 05:46 PM

Al Pacino is one of the greats.
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Reply #15 - June 04, 2014, 09:36 PM

Quote from: Cornflower on June 04, 2014, 05:44 PM
On a side note, I absolutely love Pacino's performance in this scene. I know some think he is over-acting it, but in my mind his mannerism, expressions and his overall performance is perfection

its brilliant

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