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Theme Changer

 Topic: 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL

 (Read 472274 times)
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  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1830 - February 22, 2015, 05:28 PM

    Disgusting!!!

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1831 - February 22, 2015, 05:46 PM

    Sectarianism is am interesting phenomenon. It's not something you can understand easily unless you have experienced it first-hand. Lebanon is a first-class case study for how sectarianism functions as a social construct. There are parts of Beirut where sect is irrelevant and then there are towns in Bekaa and Southern Lebanon where a local can tell you the sectarian make up of a place and the relationships at play just by looking at the fonts used on a shop sign. The interesting thing about the fertile crescent is that in recent history sectarianism started and flourished in Iraq, spread to Lebanon and parts of Turkey and is now seeing a renaissance in the Syrian civil war. People don't realise it as the Kurds seem united but there are also tribal, linguistic and even sectarian factions in Rojava and in Iraqi Kurdistan. I think sectarianism will be a deciding factor in the redrawing of the Middle East.

    Isil would have been dead long ago were it not for the support of disenfranchised sunnis from Iraq, Syria, the Arabian peninsula and Russia.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1832 - February 23, 2015, 10:29 AM

     news says New ISIS video shows Kurdish Peshmerga soldiers in cages in Iraq

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq2bN7nf0Iw

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1833 - February 23, 2015, 10:31 AM


    ..........Isil would have been dead long ago were it not for the support of disenfranchised sunnis from Iraq, Syria, the Arabian peninsula and Russia.

    interesting observation josoj ....  Glad to read you in cemb...

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1834 - February 23, 2015, 12:27 PM



    Very sad - and baffling!!

    I know many religious Egyptians and I know how conservative they can be - but I still don't understand how anyone can take that leap to what ISIS are doing.

    btw the Tweet was misquoted at 8.01 it actually says it is a beautiful think to kill and slaughter "apostates" (مرتدين) not "Infidels" - in other words he is finding it 'beautiful' cutting off heads of other Muslims (but they're not the right 'type' of Muslim of course).
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1835 - February 23, 2015, 12:42 PM

    "in other words he is finding it 'beautiful' cutting off heads of other Muslims (but they're not the right 'type' of Muslim of course)."

    Yes, but they call all the 'wrong sort of Muslim' apostates. A certain (half) Egyptian, supposedly 'liberal' Muslim I know, who also happens to be my younger brother, would have definitely joined up if Daesh had been going in the 80's. I think it's v much a generational thing. Once people have a family, business, network of friends etc, the idea of chopping off 'apostates' heads is of of interest to them personally (although often they will quietly go along with others doing it). The notion that 'normal' people would never resort to bloody executions is misleading - everyone is capable of everything, given the right set of circumstances, IMHO at least.

    Ha Ha.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1836 - February 23, 2015, 12:55 PM

    That's a pretty fucked up thing to say Jack.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1837 - February 23, 2015, 01:09 PM

    It's human nature tho. The average person is rarely in such circumstances but just look at what soldiers are capable of throughout history. War provides a number of the "right" circumstances for one to commit rape, murder, looting, genocide, etc.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1838 - February 23, 2015, 01:13 PM

    Quote
    A certain (half) Egyptian, supposedly 'liberal' Muslim I know, who also happens to be my younger brother, would have definitely joined up if Daesh had been going in the 80's.


    Is that really necessary?
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1839 - February 23, 2015, 05:12 PM

    Pretty scary description of IS controlled Raqqa:

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/21/islamic-state-capital-raqqa-syria-isis
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1840 - February 23, 2015, 05:57 PM

    Is that really necessary?



    It's hardly a secret, I've always told him he took the political route rather than the rest of my family's more spiritual (for lack of a better word) way, no argument about it, so don't worry too much, I don't say it out of malice. It's just his character . Do you know him/ have a different view? He was aways the one happy to skin a rabbit, or 'prepare' a chicken, or whatever, whereas me and the rest of the family wouldn't have put our hands up - I'm too much of a wuss to even look at blood, never mind make it appear.

    This is very interesting, the Arab Christin guy is sooo lovely.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWXcIhjzLMQ

    Ha Ha.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1841 - February 23, 2015, 06:10 PM

    That's a pretty fucked up thing to say Jack.


    I'm baffled as to why, or what particular point even. But I'm sorry if you think so, but just to make it clear, I'm not talking about anyone from this site. If it's that 'anyone can be capable of anything' - I don't see what's messed up about that? And I include great things, not just the horrible stuff.

    Ha Ha.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1842 - February 23, 2015, 09:08 PM

    Very sad - and baffling!!

    I know many religious Egyptians and I know how conservative they can be - but I still don't understand how anyone can take that leap to what ISIS are doing.

    btw the Tweet was misquoted at 8.01 it actually says it is a beautiful think to kill and slaughter "apostates" (مرتدين) not "Infidels" - in other words he is finding it 'beautiful' cutting off heads of other Muslims (but they're not the right 'type' of Muslim of course).


    I noticed that, which is even more upsetting

    You are the Universe, Expressing itself as a Human for a little while- Eckhart Tolle
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1843 - February 23, 2015, 09:34 PM

    .
    This is very interesting, the Arab Christin guy is sooo lovely.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWXcIhjzLMQ

    ISIS is Christian/Jewish   OTNT conspiracy to take over middles east

    that is straight out  of Iranian t.v  for English speaking Shia Muslims and west.,   It is certain none of those two guys live in ISIS areas.

    The comments under it are interesting..........

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1844 - February 24, 2015, 12:28 AM


    So on that video., A well known journalist from gives some strange hint today...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ra9E7fYS7qQ

    he says (4.18 mts to 6.54) that all those Kurdish guys  in those cages were already burnt  to death but the rogues of Islam are  going to release that video at later times..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1845 - February 24, 2015, 12:57 PM

    Islamic State 'abducts dozens of Christians in Syria' says BBC news



    Quote
    Islamic State (IS) has abducted dozens of Assyrian Christians from villages in north-eastern Syria, activists say.

    The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights reported that at least 90 men, women and children were seized in a series of dawn raids near the town of Tal Tamr. Some Assyrians managed to escape and made their way east to the largely Kurdish-controlled city of Hassakeh.

    It comes as Syrian Kurdish fighters backed by US-led air strikes continue to advance into IS-held territory. Hassakeh province is strategically important in the fight against IS because it borders both Turkey and areas controlled by the group in Iraq.

     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTTYTiYDA6A

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1846 - February 24, 2015, 01:24 PM

    Quote
    ISIS Burns 8000 Rare Books and Manuscripts in Mosul

    By Riyadh Mohammed
    10 hours ago


    While the world was watching the Academy Awards ceremony, the people of Mosul were watching a different show. They were horrified to see ISIS members burn the Mosul public library. Among the many thousands of books it housed, more than 8,000 rare old books and manuscripts were burned.

    “ISIS militants bombed the Mosul Public Library. They used improvised explosive devices,” said Ghanim al-Ta'an, the director of the library. Notables in Mosul tried to persuade ISIS members to spare the library, but they failed.

    Related: Kurds Are Close to Retaking Mosul from ISIS

    The former assistant director of the library Qusai All Faraj said that the Mosul Public Library was established in 1921, the same year that saw the birth of the modern Iraq. Among its lost collections were manuscripts from the eighteenth century, Syriac books printed in Iraq's first printing house in the nineteenth century, books from the Ottoman era, Iraqi newspapers from the early twentieth century and some old antiques like an astrolabe and sand glass used by ancient Arabs. The library had hosted the personal libraries of more than 100 notable families from Mosul over the last century.

    During the US led invasion of Iraq in 2003, the library was looted and destroyed by mobs. However, the people living nearby managed to save most of its collections and rich families bought back the stolen books and they were returned to the library, All Faraj added.

    “900 years ago, the books of the Arab philosopher Averroes were collected before his eyes...and burned. One of his students started crying while witnessing the burning. Averroes told him... the ideas have wings...but I cry today over our situation,” said Rayan al-Hadidi, an activist and a blogger from Mosul. Al-Hadidi said that a state of anger and sorrow are dominating Mosul now.  Even the library's website was suspended.

    “What a pity! We used to go to the library in the 1970s. It was one of the greatest landmarks of Mosul. I still remember the special pieces of paper where the books’ names were listed alphabetically,” said Akil Kata who left Mosul to exile years ago.

    Related: The Perverted, Powerful Logic Behind ISIS’s Burned Pilot

    On the same day the library was destroyed, ISIS abolished another old church in Mosul: the church of Mary the Virgin. The Mosul University Theater was burned as well, according to eyewitnesses. In al-Anbar province, Western Iraq, the ISIS campaign of burning books has managed to destroy 100,000 titles, according to local officials. Last December, ISIS burned Mosul University’s central library.

    Iraq, the cradle of civilization, the birthplace of agriculture and writing and the home of the Sumerian, Akkadian, Assyrian, Babylonian and Arab civilizations had never witnessed such an assault on its rich cultural heritage since the Mongol era in the Middle Ages.

    Last week, a debate in Washington and Baghdad became heated over when, how and who will liberate Mosul. A plan was announced to liberate the city in April or May by more than 20,000 US trained Iraqi soldiers. Either way, and supposing everything will go well and ISIS will be defeated easily which is never the case in reality, that means the people of Mosul will still have to wait for another two to three months.

    Until then, Mosul will probably have not a single sign of its rich history left standing.


    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/isis-burns-8000-rare-books-030900856.html
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1847 - February 24, 2015, 06:23 PM



    There must be a story behind this somewhere, but I'm not sure what it is.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1848 - February 24, 2015, 06:39 PM


    .
    what ? what kind of image is that?/
    Quote
    There must be a story behind this somewhere, but I'm not sure what it is.

     I am pretty sure what it is zeca . TWO IDIOTS talking nonsense on AMRIKA tv... well watch it on tube....
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuEzPyVQAIA

    I see a  nose ringer there. what do I expect..... except  one way thinking..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1849 - February 25, 2015, 08:25 AM

    (Clicky for piccy!)

    There must be a story behind this somewhere, but I'm not sure what it is.


    *packs bags and books ticket to Turkey* Nutella here I come!!

    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1850 - February 25, 2015, 09:00 AM

    Nutella. The youth of today don't know how lucky they are.

    They had to make do with butter in Last Tango In Paris.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1851 - February 25, 2015, 09:13 AM

    Do you suppose they prefer it crunchy or smooth?
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1852 - February 25, 2015, 09:20 AM

    Well there goes the chance of IS recruiting me. I hate Nutella.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1853 - February 25, 2015, 09:40 AM

    ^ blasphemy! off with his head!

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1854 - February 25, 2015, 09:44 AM

    Well there goes the chance of IS recruiting me. I hate Nutella.


    That's because you're not a woman. Duh!

    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1855 - February 25, 2015, 11:21 AM

    Well, these women in the west are not actually living under the conditions mentioned in the video above. Perhaps that would be true for the women actually living in Syria and other places, but even the majority of them would never join ISIS out of conviction or some ideological sympathy. There are a ton of reasons, and it would be interesting to do an actual Sociological study about it but I guess it would be hard to get in touch with study participants willing to be interviewed...

    Anyway, what I see for the most part, for those who are from the west, are young women and girls who on one hand grow up in a society where women are "strong", "independent" and can be as tough and out there as men. These girls want to be part of something bigger, find meaning in their lives. Because they grow up hearing that just because you're a woman doesn't mean you have to be content with going to school, marry young and have some kids and that's it. But on the other hand, many of them live with families who won't give them those kind of opportunities. They still live according to more or less stereotypical gender roles and values that inhibits their "space". And then you have other things like ethnicity and religious identity, finding their place in society. So they search for their identity in their religion, radicalizing because they need to assert themselves and who they are in a majority society who are "not like them". Or something like that.

    Problem is, once you're part of that type of ideology reality isn't exactly what you thought it would be. Yes, you are "part of something bigger". You get to be "tough" and see violence and gore, be part of a struggle and fight. But then you must also accept being a woman in that type of society, which they more or less accept albeit not without inner struggle. Thus, you can come across these western ISIS bloggers and tweeters saying things wanting to "do a Mulan" and stuff like that (the article on ISIS female bloggers give a very interesting insight into this). I've met women like that, I've heard about them and discussed about them with my sisters when I was a Muslim. Most of them grow up from their teenage revolt, unfortunately some of them pull stupid shit and can't get out once they wake up. 

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1856 - February 25, 2015, 12:11 PM

    " Most of them grow up from their teenage revolt, unfortunately some of them pull stupid shit and can't get out once they wake up."

    Definitely. There are so many changes that go on between those formative years. My daughter often tells me she 'can't stand' her 16 year old self, and she's only 18 now. Her rallying cry used to be 'You can't tell me anything, I know it all', but since starting at Uni, she's woken up to the fact she, like the rest of us, she has a lot to learn, and that only the supremely immature (or supremely foolish) go around claiming to have all the answers. I am sure that had the three girls had been prevented from going, they'd have gone off the idea within a few months. . According to one account, the youngest one was 'promised' that if she didn't like it in Raqqa, she could return home 'no problem' - yeah right. Not even the Groucho Marx disguise will help her escape this time round. Her father, a successful Pakistani businessman, is rightly shocked and distraught at her being 'brainwashed', but aren't the parents responsible for her initial brainwashing, of the type that normally goes on in a religious household? I'm not saying they are, but knowing that Muslim parents are normally overjoyed when their kids take the 'wonderful religion'  seriously, do they have the right to protest when their offspring take it 'too seriously'?

    Ha Ha.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1857 - February 25, 2015, 01:21 PM

    I don't think they do have the right to protest when their children take it too seriously, neither should they be blamed fully for it either. The culture of don't say what you think if it doesn't comply with the accepted doesn't help either. Issues can't be talked over and counter arguments made.
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1858 - February 25, 2015, 04:33 PM


    A response to this from Kecia Ali

    http://feminismandreligion.com/2015/02/24/isis-and-authority-by-kecia-ali/
    Quote
    Last week, Graeme Wood caused quite a stir with his article “What ISIS Really Wants.” It focused on the apocalyptic religious vision of the group and contended that ISIS was, as a scholar quoted in the article put it, “smack in the middle of the medieval tradition,” including on the things most shock and repulse observers, such as slavery.

    Though Wood grants that most Muslims do not support ISIS, and acknowledges in passing the role of interpretation in formulating its doctrines, the overall impression conveyed by the article was that Muslims who deny that ISIS is a fair representation of Islam are either apologists or simply do not really know anything about Islam. Others have offered rebuttals of many of the points in the article, and Bernard Haykel, the scholar quoted, has offered a more nuanced articulation of his views. More than one commentator has pointed out that by treating ISIS as a legitimate representative of the Islamic tradition, seriously religious and dedicated to the texts “shared by all Sunni Muslims,” it fosters an unholy convergence of interests between extremist Muslims and Islamophobes.

    Wood is right about some things and wrong about others. ISIS is laying claim to the tradition and the texts they cite are in what we may call the canon. Still, to quote approvingly and without clarification Haykel’s contention that “these guys have just as much legitimacy as anyone else,” seems quite a stretch. To be sure, it is not the job of religious studies scholars (or U. S. presidents) to judge which groups are “Islamic” or “un-Islamic.” Rather, we must understand how various actors make claims to represent, understand, or further their tradition. That does not mean there are no distinctions that can be made, no criteria by which to situate those religious claims in a historical and social framework.

    Some attempts to assess ISIS’s legitimacy have focused on the fact that reputable Muslim authorities – clerics, scholars, ‘ulama – uniformly distance themselves from ISIS and condemn its brutal tactics. Though unwilling (for sound theological reasons) to declare leaders or followers of the Islamic State apostates, some have been willing to describe its actions as sinful, evil, or even “un-Islamic.”

    But these arguments from authority worry me too. When women do something “impermissible” – lead Friday prayer, open a Women’s Mosque, interpret the Qur’an in feminist ways – self-described “traditional” Muslims offer similar condemnations: these acts, and these actors, are outside the pale of tradition. Regardless of the sophistication of the arguments presented, the response is that those who make them are not properly trained. What authority do they have? In sum: how dare they?

    These specious criticisms are nearly impossible to counter, even when those spouting them do not necessarily offer more nuanced or methodologically sophisticated answers. The simple appeal to widespread scholarly agreement leaves me unconvinced.

    Take the example of the Open Letter to Baghdadi published last September. Among other things, it condemns ISIS’s violation of what the letter describes as a century-old consensus on the abolition of slavery.  (Though presented in a press conference, the letter attracted virtually no attention from the mainstream media – unlike the shocking violence that prompted it.) Undoubtedly well-intentioned, the letter makes a hash of both history and the classical tradition, with its ahistorical declarations (“No scholar of Islam disputes that one of Islam’s aims is to abolish slavery”) and simplistic proclamations of things that are “forbidden in Islam.” The letter was signed by 126 male Sunni scholars and leaders from around the world. Since its publication online, others, including a handful of women, have signed.

    Admittedly, this letter, which affirms “the prohibition and criminalization of slavery” as “a milestone in human history,” offers a much more compelling ideal than ISIS’s propaganda magazine, which signals “enslaving the families of the [disbelievers] and taking their women as concubines” as a sign of its own legitimacy and prowess, and reminds its readers that denying or mocking scriptural permissibility for slavery renders one not merely “weak-minded and weak hearted” but also an apostate. Still, however appealing it is to believe that slavery was, as the letter states, “something the Shariah worked tirelessly to undo,” such wishful thinking does not provide a firm foundation for criticizing contemporary injustices.

    The most troubling thing about the Atlantic article is the static definition of tradition that Wood uses. In his view, tradition is a body of texts. Legitimacy emerges from texts. Practices consonant with the texts – or that are interpreted as being so – are therefore “Islamic.” Muslims who say otherwise – as he admits the overwhelming majority do when confronted with ISIS – do not have much ground to stand on. But the rejection of ISIS on the basis of its distance from the classical tradition and its unacceptability to contemporary scholars who claim to constitute the legitimate inheritors of that tradition is not a panacea either. Too frequently, the weapon of “scholarly consensus” has been wielded against Muslim women who overstep its bounds—not, as ISIS has done, in a quest for domination, but in a quest for dignity.

    Any thoughts on this? or on Wood's article?
  • 'Islamic State' a.k.a. ISIL
     Reply #1859 - February 25, 2015, 07:13 PM

    A response to this from Kecia Ali

    http://feminismandreligion.com/2015/02/24/isis-and-authority-by-kecia-ali/Any thoughts on this? or on Wood's article?


    These two articles raise a question we have long debated here, Zeca. Namely how far do terrorist groups like ISIS (and also Al-Qa'idah) represent "true" Islam.

    My contention has always been that there is no "true" Islam - just the interpretations and practices of Muslims themselves and these have differed in different places and at different times.

    Therefore both those who claim ISIS represents "true Islam" and those who claim ISIS does not represent "true Islam" are wrong.

    Islam is made up of many traditions - each one throwing their claims back to the prophet and authenticity of Qur'an & Sunna.

    Both Muslims as well as western writers, (i.e. Wood in the article you posted,) make the mistake of assuming there is a cohesive, homogeneous, clearly defined: "True Islam" - those that follow it are "Islamic" those that don't are "Un-Islamic".

    One can forgive Muslims for thinking this way, because they of course believe these texts are the carefully planned work of a god with a fixed, pre-determined purpose and goal (and the "True Islam" for them just happens to be the particular view they personally take - what a stroke of luck!! Wink ). However a great many western commentators make the same assumption. (The two groups most insistent that there is a clear definable "True Islam" and it is the most puritanical and literalist tradition from the Middle Ages, are the Islamists and the far-right, leading to an: "unholy convergence of interests between extremist Muslims and Islamophobes").

    You often hear the argument (again from Muslims trying to "prove" their point - as well as western commentators) that the "consensus" (Ijma') of the scholars represents "true" Islam. But again which scholars? Which consensus and at what period? For example - Iraq in the 8-10th centuries? When Mu'tazilite doctrine was the consensus? Or later when the 'Asharites became the consensus? Even if one tries to find a standard or common thread in the four Sunni Schools - one will see they have evolved over the centuries. Today I would say that the "consensus" is certainly not with ISIS. They can rightly be regarded as we now regard groups like the Khawarij and the early incarnations of the Almohads and Al-Murabitun in North Africa - each claiming to represent "True Islam" but were minority movements (that either died out or moderated.)

    Basically it is a mistake - imho - to think that there is a single, cohesive "true Islam". Religions are what the believers believe them to be and each group in every period claims textual authenticity and throws their practice back to the prophet and his companions.
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