Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up

Previous page 1 ... 3 4 5« Previous thread | Next thread »
- bogart
- Pub Regular
- offline
Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
Reply #120 - June 30, 2014, 07:03 PM

Quote from: Tonyt on June 30, 2014, 02:12 PM
Ok here is something that Islam clearly did not know. The Quran mentions many many times that Allah created the trees so that we can eat their fruits, and sends rain so that the trees can grow.

The fact that trees grow with rain and we can eat their fruits is plainly obvious to any primitive man.

However the most important aspect of trees to animal life, which all animal life depends, is the conversion of carbon dioxide into oxygen. Many animals can survive fine without fruit, but no animal could survive without oxygen.

But Allah never bothered to mention this most important aspect to the mutual relationship between plants and animals.

(Clicky for piccy!)

Also it missed the point that fruit is bait for animals in order to transport a planet's seeds for reproduction.
- moi
- Pub Regular
- offline
Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
Reply #121 - June 30, 2014, 08:24 PM

Just found a fascinating discussion of the early Arab fighters.

Quote
To begin with, it is important to appreciate that the Arab conquerors were by no means unknown to the Byzantines. Roman-Arab relations go back centuries before the rise of Islam. Arab mercenaries served in Emperor Julian’s (361–363) campaign against Sasanian Persia. During this war the Saracens earned themselves the stigma of being unreliable, even treacherous allies for having deserted the Roman army after the Emperor’s death.4 Arab contingents also fought for the Roman Emperor Valens (364–378) at the Battle of Adrianople distinguishing themselves with their savage bravery.5 Furthermore, Arabs were notoriously known for raiding Christian monasteries, particularly in the Sinai.6

1 Christian reactions to the Arab onslaught were manifold. For introductory literature on early Christian responses to Islam see Meyendorff 1964; Kaegi 1969; Brock 1982; Griffith 1992; Guenther 1999; Lamoreaux 2000; Tolan 2002, 40–67. See further Hoyland 1997, 53–335.
2 See Dick 1961.
3 Contemporary designations of Arabs included Saracens, Arabs, Ishmaelites, Hagarenes. (The term ‘Muslim’ was not used by seventh century Christian authors.) In the following I use the aforementioned terms synonymously.
4 See Ammianus Marcellinus, Res Gestae Book 25, Chapter 6 in Seyfarth 1978, 1.368.
5 See Ammianus Marcellinus, Res Gestae Book 31, Chapter 16(6) in Seyfarth 1978,
2.200.
6 See Vasiliev 1956, 307–8.
68

On the Eschatological Elucidation of the ‘Ishmaelite’ Phenomenon
Consequently, the Arab incursions into Syro-Palestine intensifying in the early 630s were initially understood as nothing more than another raiding activity by the ‘robbers of Arabia.’7 Accordingly, Maximus the Confessor in a letter, penned somewhere between the years 634 and 640, attributes the Arab military successes to a temporary divine retribution for Christian sins.8 Similarly, Sophronius, Patriarch of Jerusalem (d. 639), in his Christmas sermon of 634 sees nothing more than a passing divine chastisement for recent Christian wickedness in the Saracen occupation of the surrounding area of Jerusalem.9 In later sermons, however, Sophronius starts using apocalyptic imagery calling the Arabs the ‘Abomination of Desolation’ as prophesied by Daniel 11:31.

http://ora.ouls.ox.ac.uk/objects/uuid%3Ad498d4b2-3399-4bd7-871b-93ee63a9f193/datastreams/ATTACHMENT01

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

A.A. Milne,

"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
- Cornflower
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
Reply #122 - August 16, 2014, 10:29 AM

OK so the slave thing was mentioned in the beginning of the thread, but I just wanted to bring it up again especially given the recent events with ISIS and them basically reintroducing traditional Islamic slavery on a "massive" (?) scale.

Read this shit:

https://twitter.com/abulmuthanna313/status/499668533530615808

Slavery is an intrinsic part of Islamic law. Everything from expiation to all the special massive super awesome marvelous rewards you get for freeing a slave. The fact that Mo actually did not abolish slavery makes it very clear that Islam as a ideology and social structure "needs" slavery to continue existing. I wonder what allah thinks about the kuffar who thought it was way too inhumane and immoral to continue enslaving people, and managed so more or less abolish it even though their entire economical structure relied heavily upon the slave trade. Why does allah think so little about his devout Muslims, that he or Mo couldn't just say it "slavery is really fucked up, stop it right now". They didn't have problems with abolishing and prohibiting alcohol and other recreational "drugs" or substances, or sex and interaction between men and women, or music and dancing.. All of which is pretty normal human behaviour and part of what makes us who we are. Imagine if Muslims didn't break the rules, we wouldn't have any of the so called "Islamic" art, culture and science. All of which is pretty much against traditional "hard core" Islam. It was pretty much condemned by all the "righteous" scholars of their time

"The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
- billy
- Pub Regular
- Tripitaka ~ Closet Juice
- offline
Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
Reply #123 - August 16, 2014, 10:53 AM

Quote
The fact that Mo actually did not abolish slavery makes it very clear that Islam as a ideology and social structure "needs" slavery to continue existing.

there are hadiths of Mo buying and selling slaves. Muhammad was a slave trader.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
God is Love.
Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
- Skywalker
- Pub Regular
- offline
Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
Reply #124 - August 16, 2014, 11:25 AM

Quote
During this war the Saracens earned themselves the stigma of being unreliable, even treacherous allies for having deserted the Roman army after the Emperor’s death.

Wasn't this the reason arab tribes rebelled against Abu Bakr,because it was believed by ancient arabs, that when shaykh of a tribe dies the allegiance ends.
- Cornflower
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
Reply #125 - August 16, 2014, 11:30 AM

Yes, pretty much. Much less about religion, and much more about politics and power. Abu Bakr, and mainstream Islamic history, wants us to believe that the rebels were "apostates". But in reality, they just didn't want to pay taxes (zakat) to Abu Bakr because their covenant had been with Mo. Abu Bakr, and later scholars, had to make it seem as the rebels were the scum of the earth so they labelled them apostates.

"The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
- moi
- Pub Regular
- offline
Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
Reply #126 - August 16, 2014, 12:40 PM

On trees, didn't Allah know he made trees from air?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITpDrdtGAmo

And how can this possibly be the true religion when uncle mo never tasted chocolate.

Has anyone thought of writing a detailed sceptics koran that investigates all the verses, their background their thinking, and comparing these with how other people were thinking and how people think now?

Does the koran discuss elephants?

Quote
The fore-limbs then serve more or less the purpose of hands in quadrupeds, with the exception of the elephant. This latter animal has its toes somewhat indistinctly defined, and its front legs are much bigger than its hinder ones; it is five-toed, and has short ankles to its hind feet. But it has a nose such in properties and such in size as to allow of its using the same for a hand. For it eats and drinks by lifting up its food with the aid of this organ into its mouth, and with the same organ it lifts up articles to the driver on its back; with this organ it can pluck up trees by the roots, and when walking through water it spouts the water up by means of it; and this organ is capable of being crooked or coiled at the tip, but not of flexing like a joint, for it is composed of gristle.

Of all animals man alone can learn to make equal use of both hands.

All animals have a part analogous to the chest in man, but not similar to his; for the chest in man is broad, but that of all other animals is narrow. Moreover, no other animal but man has breasts in front; the elephant, certainly, has two breasts, not however in the chest, but near it.

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/aristotle/histanimals2.html

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

A.A. Milne,

"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
- yeezevee
- Pub Regular
- offline
Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
Reply #127 - August 16, 2014, 12:53 PM

Quote from: moi on August 16, 2014, 12:40 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITpDrdtGAmo

How the hell you coupled him on to that post moi ?

I could listen to his Physics lectures hours and hours .. He was such a gifted teacher made everything simple for students..

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- moi
- Pub Regular
- offline
Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
Reply #128 - August 16, 2014, 01:37 PM

From here! And the reference to chocolate is a reference to the discussion about dates.

Quote from: Tonyt on June 30, 2014, 02:12 PM
Ok here is something that Islam clearly did not know. The Quran mentions many many times that Allah created the trees so that we can eat their fruits, and sends rain so that the trees can grow.

The fact that trees grow with rain and we can eat their fruits is plainly obvious to any primitive man.

However the most important aspect of trees to animal life, which all animal life depends, is the conversion of carbon dioxide into oxygen. Many animals can survive fine without fruit, but no animal could survive without oxygen.

But Allah never bothered to mention this most important aspect to the mutual relationship between plants and animals.

(Clicky for piccy!)

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

A.A. Milne,

"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
- moi
- Pub Regular
- offline
Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
Reply #129 - August 16, 2014, 01:40 PM

Quote
Quran 2:29 Of all things Allah has perfect knowledge

So, does the koran discuss elephants, chocolate, tomatoes, potatoes and penguins?

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

A.A. Milne,

"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
- Cornflower
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
Reply #130 - August 17, 2014, 10:26 AM

Christians and Jews amount to approximately 32 % of the worlds population. Muslims are estimated to be around 23 %. Of those 23 % Muslims, 90 % are sunnis. From those sunnis, a lot of them would be deemed "modernist", "progressives", "Sufis", "ahl al bida'ah" of various degrees and just outright "jahil Muslims".

Now I wonder, given the fact that Muslims kill each other far more than non-Muslims kill Muslims, would a global Khilafa kill of around 45 % of the worlds population and prosecute 32 % + all Muslims who are deemed deviant? That's more than 2/3 of the worlds population. It almost seems as if allah thought that majority of the world were "ahl al kitab" while only super bad evil motherfuckers like the Persians were Mushriks or other. So much that when scholars had to deal with this is real life, all of a sudden Sabians were also included in ahl al kitab... just because following the actual guidelines from allah and Mo wouldn't work very well IRL.

"The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
- NeoApostate
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
Reply #131 - August 22, 2014, 06:29 PM

Quote from: Cornflower on August 16, 2014, 10:29 AM
Slavery is an intrinsic part of Islamic law. Everything from expiation to all the special massive super awesome marvelous rewards you get for freeing a slave. The fact that Mo actually did not abolish slavery makes it very clear that Islam as a ideology and social structure "needs" slavery to continue existing. I wonder what allah thinks about the kuffar who thought it was way too inhumane and immoral to continue enslaving people, and managed so more or less abolish it even though their entire economical structure relied heavily upon the slave trade. Why does allah think so little about his devout Muslims, that he or Mo couldn't just say it "slavery is really fucked up, stop it right now". They didn't have problems with abolishing and prohibiting alcohol and other recreational "drugs" or substances, or sex and interaction between men and women, or music and dancing.. All of which is pretty normal human behaviour and part of what makes us who we are. Imagine if Muslims didn't break the rules, we wouldn't have any of the so called "Islamic" art, culture and science. All of which is pretty much against traditional "hard core" Islam. It was pretty much condemned by all the "righteous" scholars of their time

you forgot usury. God declared war on those who practice it. (Sex) Slavery....hmm I guess banning that would have rubbed a lot of people the wrong way!
- Tonyt
- Pub Regular
- offline
Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
Reply #132 - August 24, 2014, 10:56 PM

The Quran seems to assume that everyone has heard of Christianity and Judaism, and various other specific traditions and cultural things from the Middle East.

If you went to some uncontacted tribe in the middle of the Amazon, and translated the Quran into their language, none of it would make any sense to them. When it says you must wage war on the Christians and the Jews until they pay the Jizyah, their response would be what are Christians and Jews? and What is Jizyah?
- Cornflower
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
Reply #133 - August 26, 2014, 09:54 PM

So something doesn't make sense. A woman can't work without permission from her husband. She can't even go outside her front door without his permission, but she has the right to her own "wealth" and to keep it, without actually needing to spend it. But if her husband falls short, "the most deserving of your sadaqa" is your family. So she then still has to spend her private wealth on her husband and family. And how is she supposed to collect this wealth, this marvelous women's right that only Islam came to give us poor womenfolk (!), if she isn't even allowed to step outside her front door before asking her owner... uhm, I mean husband.

This whole "women's right to her own wealth" seems pretty silly when put in proper light. I mean, if you are lucky to inherit some money or property, that is great. And if your husband happens to be well off, never falling into financial strains (yeah, like that doesn't happen to everyone at one point or the other). Then you can actually keep your own wealth! Yaaaay!!! But then, if you don't inherit anything.. and you aren't allowed to go out and earn your own money... then these rules are completely useless and protects no one and nothing.

Also, you can keep your money if you want to. But to actually spend it, you aren't even allowed to spend more than 1/3 of your wealth without asking your husband for permission (yeah ladies, go check out the books of fiqh. This is what it says). And you know that the father has the right to take whatever he wants from his son's wealth, right? And I mean, whatever he wants. Literally. Without asking. It's his. So I don't know if this applies for us ladies as well, to be honest, but does it really matter? Imagine your father in law comes in one day and takes your husband's money and after a couple of months you find yourself not able to pay the bills. Sorry girls, it's more or less incumbent on you to spend from your wealth as "sadaqa" on your husband.

"The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
- NeoApostate
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
Reply #134 - August 30, 2014, 08:57 AM

Another thing I never understood was the bias toward right-handedness. Islam was in agreement with the medieval biases against left-handedness that science have only recently been able to effectively counter. We now know there's nothing sinister about it, it's just a genetic trait, that of all entities, the Creator should have known about!
- Lilyesque
- The Deconverter
- Pub Regular
- offline
Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
Reply #135 - August 30, 2014, 09:26 AM

Interestingly sinister is the latin for left, and dextere is the latin for right, hence Sinister and Dexterous.
- NeoApostate
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
Reply #136 - August 30, 2014, 10:58 AM

^ I also feel Islam continued to perpetuate anti-menstruating-women biases and failed to find an iota of goodness in this phenomenon..
- Jedi
- Director of Shariah Police
- Ex-Muslim
- Observe HAYYA at all times
- offline
Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
Reply #137 - August 30, 2014, 09:01 PM

Why do women menstruate? http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/12/21/why-do-women-menstruate/

And what does the Koran have to say about this?

No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
- Cornflower
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Things Islam didn't know, or fuck up
Reply #138 - August 18, 2015, 06:46 PM

A couple of days ago I was reminded about something I know I've mentioned before on the forum. Perhaps even on this thread, but I'm too lazy to read through 5 pages so I'm just gonna go ahead and (perhaps repeat myself) and mention it. There are hadeeth about women not being allowed to move about outside after maghrib, in particular the time between maghrib and ishaa (if I remember correctly). This is highly inconvenient in places where the sun sets around 4 or 5 in the afternoon, or even earlier if you head up even more north.

I'm not even going to discuss the issue from a point of view of women being in the labour force and how this doesn't work in a modern society. Because Muslims would go ahead and argue that society should be molded according to Islam, and that it would only be a modern after-construction blah blah blah. I get it. Fine.

But still, there's the issue of geography and what we've discussed in the beginning of the thread pertaining to calculating time according to the moon and sun. Once again it shows that these rules were made up without taking into account the fact that in some places the day is only a couple of hours short, and that it would be in the long run impossible for women to conform to these rules; even traditional women conforming to the restricting shariah rules. Or are women supposed to be locked in their houses?

We come back again to the paradox of fiqh pertaining to women. On one hand she should stay in her house, and have all these restricting rules that make it hard for her to break free. But on the other hand it offers rules about issues that would be more or less impossible to apply if she would follow the rules from the get-go (for example, when we talked about earning her own wealth etc).

I'm not gonna proof-read this (sorry, I lied. I'm gonna proof-read it, but I'm not gonna edit it )

"The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
Previous page 1 ... 3 4 5« Previous thread | Next thread »