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Theme Changer

 Topic: Tafsir is not Qur’an (Iqlid blog)

 (Read 3425 times)
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  • Tafsir is not Qur’an (Iqlid blog)
     OP - August 27, 2014, 04:53 PM

    From the Iqlid blog, and maybe of interest to Zaotar and others:

    http://iqlid.wordpress.com/2014/08/25/tnq/
    Quote
    Tafsir is not Qur’an–A Conversation

    The following is an excerpt of my conversation with Dr. Michael Birkel at Eralham College, in which I make a distinction between studying the Qur’an and studying tafsir–i.e. the rich tradition of Islamic commentary. For the full text of this and many other insightful conversations please see Qur’an in Conversation, ed. Michael Birkel, 2014.

    One thing that I argue in the first chapter of my book, The Qur’an and the Aramaic Gospel Traditions, is that there exists some serious sectarian and missionary activity in the environment of the Qur’an. Some Muslims feel uncomfortable when I say that, and fear that I am subjecting the text to a secularizing or even orientalist reading. In such cases I say, “no, I’m reading the Qur’an and you’re reading tafsir, the commentary that came about later on.” The Qur’an discusses the sectarianism of its day explicitly, a small sample of which can be gleaned from such words as shiqaq, “division,” ahzab, “parties,” and when it talks about groups or sides. The Qur’an is adding its voice to a multiplicity of competing theological and legal schools and proposing its own to be the correct one.

    To push this argument further, some Muslims are hesitant to look at such texts as the Infancy Gospel of Thomas, or the Protovangelium of James. Muslim tradition is not based, as it were, on such texts but rather on exegetical, prophetic and biographical literature—tafsir, hadith, sirah, and so on—which flourished about two centuries after the Qur’an. However, in the pre-modern Muslim scholarship of the ninth to sixteenth century, widely accepted authors like ibn Qutaybah, Tabari, al-Suyuti and others were looking at and debating the textual context with which the Qur’an is in dialogue. I say “in dialogue” because it is talking to the audience of those texts. In the fifteenth century, in his multi-volume Tafsir, al-Biqa’i considers the canonical Gospels—that is, the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John—to be the injil referred to by the Qur’an. Most Muslims today would not agree with that. And yet this line of thought was afforded some space within Islam in the past. And al-Biqa’i was a scholar in high regard. Unfortunately, the difference of opinion that was considered rahma, “mercy,” among classical Muslim scholars, has long disappeared today. In some cases this problem has been exacerbated by “post-colonial baggage.” And so today we have tremendously bright scholars before the vast sea of knowledge and wisdom that is the Qur’an, but we have discouraged them from plunging their buckets deep into the waters, as our predecessors used to. My instinct is always that much of this problem is informed by political rather than academic challenges.

    I hope and feel that I am reviving my own tradition, which has a rich scholarly history. I am not alone; there are others. Within the Islamic world you have someone like Yusuf Zaydan, a historian and historical novelist who has written a number of best sellers in Egypt. He says that as Muslims we need to truly study the pre-Islamic world. Otherwise our knowledge of that world is reduced to cheap miracles. For example, if the meaning of a word in the Qur’an is not entirely clear—like the mysterious unconnected letters ALM, HM, and so on—there is a temptation to identify it as a miraculous utterance. At the same time, when the first Muslims scholar had recourse to such an idea, it followed a lengthy process of research and inquiry. (pp. 46-47)

  • Tafsir is not Qur’an (Iqlid blog)
     Reply #1 - August 27, 2014, 05:04 PM

    Review of The Qur'an and the Aramaic Gospel Traditions:

    http://membr.uwm.edu/review.php?id=137
    Quote
    In this work, El-Badawi has made a detailed comparison between the text of passages of the Qur'an and the corresponding passages of the Aramaic Gospels. He does this in order to prove his assertion that the Qur'an as a text was produced within a milieu that was dominated by what he terms the Aramaic Gospel Tradition. El-Badawi is careful to avoid the use of the term “influence,” due to its negative connotation in light of previous theories regarding the origins of Islam. He states, “This study will demonstrate how the Qur'an …, selectively challenged or re-appropriated, and therefore took up the ‘dogmatic re-articulation’ of language and imagery coming from the Aramaic Gospel Traditions, in order to fit the idiom and the religious temperament of a heterogeneous, sectarian Arabian audience” (p. 5). By dogmatic, he means here a more indefinite sense of belief rather than a definition of the word connected to any particular religious institution. The system of belief studied in this work is that which will eventually become Islam, but that is described by El-Badawi as originally “anti-Trinitarian, post-Rabbinic and apocalyptic,” what he terms “strict monotheism” (p. 5).

    In El-Badawi’s opening chapter, “Sources and Method,” he discusses the historical context of the Qur'an and the Aramaic Gospel Tradition, his thesis and definition of terminology, an extended section on secondary studies of the Qur'an, his methodology, and the organization of the book. It is in this chapter that he discusses certain aspects of the work that might be questionable for some scholars. He recognizes that the sources that relate the historical context of the origins and compilation of the Qur'an, most notably the sira works, are problematic, and yet notes that he accepts them for the purposes of this study. He follows Fred Donner’s notion of the “historical kernel” in the Islamic source material, but does not really indicate how he determines which aspects of Muhammad’s life story he accepts and which aspects he rejects. In addition, he utilizes the canonical versions of both the Qur'an and the Aramaic Gospels, but does discuss the non-canonical sources that could impact his analysis of these texts.

    El-Badawi’s methodology is clearly laid out, detailed, and extremely well organized. He states that he chooses texts within both the Qur'an and the Aramaic Gospels “if general linguistic relationships are outwardly apparent” (p. 49). The text of the Qur'an is then read within the context of the surrounding verses. Then, it is compared to earlier works (“Biblical, Rabbinic, Apocryphal, Pseudepigraphal, homiletic, historical, and epigraphic literature”) to ensure that the text is not connected to a source other than the Aramaic Gospel Traditions. Once a firm connection between the Qur'an and the Aramaic Gospels is established, he states that he will then consult the Islamic literary works and secondary sources. Only after all of these steps have been completed will he “formulate a hypothesis” about the relationship between the scriptural passages in question.

    El-Badawi’s second chapter, “Prophetic Tradition in the Late Antique Near East,” spells out the context within which the works studied, especially the Qur'an, were developed. He terms this historical context “prophetic tradition,” and defines it as follows: “Prophetic tradition may designate a religion, faith, denomination, sect, school, or group of adherents which tends to be monotheistic in a general sense. More explicitly, it is the social lifestyle of abiding by the teachings, ethics and law of a divinely inspired or sanctioned leader…. Their teachings are (1) dogmatic in nature…, and (2) passed down from one generation to the next” (p. 51). He describes the Judaeo-Christian and Zoroastrian background for the Aramaic Gospels — the product of a Syriac church desperate to survive in the face of religious sectarianism — and the Arabian background, both of which will serve as source material for the text of the Qur'an and the religion of Islam. It is here that El-Badawi engages in his first comparison of the two languages involved. He states that the “Syriac speaking Christian groups and the tribal and urban centers of Arabia… submitted to the ethics, laws, and teachings of Syriac Christian literature…. This act of submission was called in Syriac ašlem” (p. 59). This term is then connected to the Arabic islām with a similar correspondent meaning. However, El-Badawi is careful to point out that the Islam of Muhammad was only one of many such movements (what he terms islāms) in Arabia during the sixth and seventh centuries, all of whom were informed by the continued presence of the Aramaic Gospel Traditions due to the continued presence of Christian communities and individuals with whom the Arabians would have been familiar.

    The work is then organized into four chapters that each dwells on a specific theme. There are far too many sub themes in each chapter to discuss in detail here, and so I have limited my discussion to those that I find most intriguing. The first of these, “Prophets and their Righteous Entourage,” discusses Jesus’ place among the Hebrew prophets in the Aramaic Gospel Tradition and then the place of these same prophets in the Qur’an. The chapter then goes on to discuss the “alienated, oppressed and disenfranchised members of society” (p. 78) who would become members of a prophet’s entourage. The following chapter, “The Evils of the Clergy,” compares the negative dictates by both Jesus and Muhammad about the clergy of their day, and includes themes of persecution by and the materialism of the clergy, as well as discussing the issue of hypocrisy, themes prevalent in both the Aramaic Gospel Tradition and the Qur’an. The next chapter, “The Divine Realm,” includes discussions of the themes of God’s majesty, light, the Word, and God’s mercy. El-Badawi points out in this chapter that the Qur’an replaces Jesus with God in many passages in order to maintain the “strict monotheism” necessary in Islam (pp. 160, 162). The final thematic chapter, “Divine Judgment and the Apocalypse,” reveals important differences between the Aramaic Gospel Tradition and the Qur’an, including an especially fascinating section that covers the idea of death and judgment. In the former, followers are promised that they “will never see death” (p. 168), while in the latter, followers are told in no uncertain terms that “every soul will taste death” (p. 169). Again, Jesus’ role in the Biblical texts is removed when re-articulated in the Qur’an’s depiction of the Final Judgment, as El-Badawi points out the use of passive verbs in Qur’an39 to replace any possible Trinitarian interpretation. In the sections in this chapter on Hell and Paradise, El-Badawi deftly brings the depiction of both the “Righteous Entourage” and the evil clergy full circle, as these groups switch places — with the clergy in Hell and the faithful followers of Muhammad and Jesus in Paradise, enjoying the material benefits denied them in life.

    The final chapter of the work serves as El-Badawi’s conclusion. He includes a discussion of typology, and explains that he has limited his study to those passages that lend themselves most obviously to comparison, but then points out that the number of passages that could be compared on, for example, a rhetorical basis, are statistically small enough to warrant their exclusion. He notes that the Qur’an was very much aware of Gospel texts, but that it did not, as some scholars have claimed, have origins “as a purely Syriac lectionary…, or, alternately, as a Christian scripture for the Arabs” (pp. 213-214). He notes that the Qur’an “may be appreciated as both a collection of divine revelations as well as a product of religious cross-pollination. Therefore, it is not the finality of an individual prophetic tradition nor its written legacy — scripture — but rather the continuity of prophetic tradition and scripture that bestows upon us the broadest perspective from which to appreciate them both” (p. 219).

    Overall, El-Badawi’s work is an important addition to our understanding of the Qur’an within its historical and religious milieu. His detailed analysis is supported by a number of appendices that reflect the passages of the various Gospel texts and their corresponding passages in the Qur’an, as well as the typology involved in their comparison. He also provides a number of tables throughout the text that are fairly useful. El-Badawi’s acceptance of the story of the Qur’an’s origins and composition is problematic, despite his nod to the issues with the source material, because so much of his analysis rests upon the story they tell, especially in those sections dealing with Muhammad and his historical milieu. The work is unfortunately marred by a number of typographical errors that are quite distracting, especially in the beginning sections of the book. That being said, this remains a very important work that will hopefully serve to further our understanding of the Qur’an and its relationship to the belief systems and scriptures among which it originated and with whom it continues to interact.

  • Tafsir is not Qur?an (Iqlid blog)
     Reply #2 - August 27, 2014, 05:25 PM

    An interesting appraoch but I was somehwat mislead and consequently disheartened by the title:

    Quote
    Tafsir is not Qur’an–A Conversation


    I'm hoping for a scholarly refutation of Tafsir ltierature asnot beig an itnerpretation of Islam but rather the successive interpolation of cultural narratives and salvation history into the Qur'an. If there is any works that deal with this please make me aware of it. I have read some books that touch upon this issue. A lot of Muslims claim that the Qur'an is untouched, but it's untouched status renders it incomprehensible utterances whose original meaning can only be assumed by reading it in its obscure historical and lingustical context.   

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Tafsir is not Qur?an (Iqlid blog)
     Reply #3 - August 27, 2014, 05:58 PM

    Yes, I'm not an ex-Muslim and my knowledge of all this is very limited, but it sounds like he's making an honourable attempt to deal with the history without rejecting Islam. How possible this actually is I'm not sure.
  • Tafsir is not Qur?an (Iqlid blog)
     Reply #4 - August 27, 2014, 07:49 PM

    God my spelling is shit.  finmad

    Yeah...it seems as though that the Muslim world will be trying to play catch up with the enormous advancement made by Western scholars in the space of (let's be honest really) 100 years with the 70's onward being a golden age of Qur'anic studies. The Muslim world has been very lacklustre and too forgiving in its analysis and evaluation of the Qur'an.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Tafsir is not Qur?an (Iqlid blog)
     Reply #5 - August 27, 2014, 08:43 PM

    Badawi is pretty good stuff ... he's about as good and critical as you can expect for a believing Muslim.

    I disagree with him in exactly the way that review criticizes him ... he still clings to the traditional narrative about the Qur'an's composition.  But overall, he's one of very few believing Muslims writing Qur'anic scholarship that's actually of much interest to non-believers.

    As Badawi points out, it's always surprising how comparatively flexible and critical the Muslims were, before they became frozen into theological orthodoxy ("inimitable Qur'an" with its "perfect divine Arabic" in seven Qira'at handed down straight from Allah).  There was a period when Muslims were permitted to think critically about their religion and the Qur'an, but it didn't last very long.  One can only hope that guys like Badawi will help bring some form of this critical attitude back.
  • Tafsir is not Qur?an (Iqlid blog)
     Reply #6 - August 27, 2014, 09:24 PM

    Precisely...the scholars are first and foremost theologians and will always regard their holy text with a significance that is academically undeserved thus colouring their judgement upon those vital aspects that require extreme scrutiny. It reminds me of the following exchange by the intelligent and beautiful:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i8ilNdyyoQ

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Tafsir is not Qur?an (Iqlid blog)
     Reply #7 - May 17, 2015, 10:31 AM

    Zeca

    from where I came this is a fantastic news, having a Scholar Muslim with those ideas is a damn revolution !!!! 
  • Tafsir is not Qur?an (Iqlid blog)
     Reply #8 - May 17, 2015, 10:51 AM

    It's something I've wondered about. Surely many of the students drawn to courses on Islamic Studies and the like at western universities must be Muslims or at least from a Muslim background, and a lot of the teaching must come from academics who follow the critical scholarship. So where is the research from Muslim students and academics that actually addresses the scholarship?
  • Tafsir is not Qur?an (Iqlid blog)
     Reply #9 - May 17, 2015, 11:15 AM

    Zeca

    i guess it is mostly about auto censure, the case of  Nacer abu zaid  is an example, and why we reach this status of affairs ?, I don't really know what went wrong, maybe if Ibn Hanbal school did not won, we would have been in a better situation :(

    one aspect that intrigue me about some  Christians scholars is somehow they separate their textual criticism from their faith,  they have no issue talking about myths in the bible, once i was watching " the bbc big questions" and this Anglican priest who said the Bible has a plenty of BS, still he has faith.

    how it is possible ?
  • Tafsir is not Qur?an (Iqlid blog)
     Reply #10 - May 17, 2015, 11:31 AM

    I expect you're right about the self-censorship, and I could see why anyone interested in following an academic career would look for a relatively safe area of research. I've noticed for example that there's some very good Iranian scholarship on Iran in late antiquity - but for the pre-Islamic period. I guess there are understandable reasons for that.

    As for Christian scholars, I'm not sure how they deal with the cognitive dissonance but it doesn't seem to stop them doing serious scholarship. Gabriel Said Reynolds for example is definitely a believing Catholic and he's one of the important scholars, not just for deconstructing the origins of Islam but for early Christianity as well.
  • Tafsir is not Qur’an (Iqlid blog)
     Reply #11 - May 17, 2015, 11:53 AM

    Zeca

    i guess it is mostly about auto censure, the case of Nacer abu zaid is an example, and why we reach this status of affairs ?     I don't really know what went wrong.........

    Nacer abu zaid .. and   that Zaid .. Zayd ibn Harithah of Quran are the perfect examples of what went wrong in Quran and what went wrong in Islam..  one from 20th century and other from 7th century

    Quote
    Nasr Hamid Abu Zayd   After receiving technical training he worked for the National Communications Organization in Cairo. At the same time, he started studying at Cairo University, where he obtained his BA degree in Arabic Studies (1972), and later his MA (1977) and PhD degrees (1981) in Islamic Studies, with works concerning the interpretation of the Qur'an. In 1982, he joined the faculty of the Department of Arabic Language and Literature at Cairo University as an assistant professor. He became an associate professor there in 1987.  

    Quote
    Zayd suffered major religious persecution for his views on the Qur'an. In 1993, he was promoted to the rank of full professor, but Islamic controversies about his academic work led to a court decision of apostasy and the denial of the appointment. In a hisbah trial started against him by Muslim scholars, he was declared an apostate (murtadd) by an Egyptian court, and consequently was declared to be divorced from his wife, Cairo University French Literature professor Dr. Ibtihal Younis  The basis of the divorce decree under Sharia law was that since it is not permissible for a Muslim woman to be married to a non-Muslim man, and since Zayd was an apostate, he therefore could not remain married to his wife. This decision, in effect, forced him out of his homeland and  Abu Zayd was imprisoned for allegedly sympathising with the Muslim Brotherhood.


     So If am in Egypt and if I write from there what I write in to CEMB about these  two fools



    I will become supporter of that Brothelhood and will be jailed by the DICK traitor of Egypt
    ., Off course for what people write in this forum  Muslim brothelhood will separate people's neck from their body for insulting Islam..  that is how Islamic POWER HOUSE works..

    And  and .. it is happening since this unknown alleged "Muhammad" character moved to that alleged Madina . And we have that story of Zayd ibn Harithah in Quran as well as in hadith to prove  what went wrong in Islam.
    Quote
    one aspect that intrigue me about some  Christians scholars is somehow they separate their textual criticism from their faith,  they have no issue talking about myths in the bible, once i was watching " the bbc big questions" and this Anglican priest who said the Bible has a plenty of BS, still he has faith.

    how it is possible ?

     That question has very very simple answer hatoush., Think bit about Islamic stories from Quran/hadith/sunnah and compare them with stories from   christian stories on NT bible characters .

     If you still can not find answer ask me again the same question I will explain in-detail "HOW THAT IS POSSIBLE" dear hatoush. Meanwhile let me watch this

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6SmQyl4dAY

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
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