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Theme Changer

 Topic: Hi. Not sure if this is the right place...

 (Read 7041 times)
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  • Hi. Not sure if this is the right place...
     OP - September 11, 2014, 08:52 AM

    Hi everyone,

    I'm not a Muslim, but I see that you also except non-Muslim members who've renounced religion.

    Previously, I was a Buddhist. I know that Buddhism is popularly viewed as a peaceful, smart religion, and an intelligent alternative to the God religions, but that wasn't my personal experience of it.

    The claims Buddhism makes (existence beyond death, the doctrine of Karma) are all as unverifiable as the claims of any other religion. As well, just as in other religions, questioning your spiritual teachers is deeply frowned upon.

    I know Buddhism is widely believed to foster critical through, but the Buddha didn't reach his conclusions by rational though, he reached them by mediating until he had a revelation. Revelations, though, aren't a very reliable source of fact. The Dalai Lama still advocates that meditation should be taught in schools, believing it would solve all the violence in the world through the revelations it brings.

    Though there is no Hell in Buddhism, as in Islam, there is re-birth, with its horridly negative consequences if you don't do the right thing.

    So, here I am. I feel shunned by the Buddhist community, so I hoped I could find a place here.

    Best wishes to all,
    Villiage Idiot

    The misspelling in my name is intentional, because I'm an idiot and I can't spell properly. But I'd probably also say that even if it was a mistake. Does that clear things up?
  • Hi. Not sure if this is the right place...
     Reply #1 - September 11, 2014, 08:55 AM

    Welcome in Village idiot. I am not an ex-Muslim either.

     parrot
  • Hi. Not sure if this is the right place...
     Reply #2 - September 11, 2014, 08:58 AM

    Welcome to the forum  parrot

    I always thought about how the ideas of karma and rebirth affect society and interactions between individuals. Buddhism does not have the cast system, but wouldn't you say that the system is a somewhat natural step from the idea of karma and rebirth?

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Hi. Not sure if this is the right place...
     Reply #3 - September 11, 2014, 09:20 AM

    Hello and Welcome VI, I don't believe there's any rule as to who can or cannot join, even theists are welcomed, though sadly most of them end up just angrily preaching their religion(s). I think you're the first Buddha I've "met" in my whole life, I was always curious in non-Abrahamic religions(though not any more inclined to join them), and I'm sure your insight into Buddhism will bring a different angle to many arguments. I'm curious, is Vill(i)age Idiot a name you were given as a result of a disagreement or did you just come up with it?

    And here's your  parrot

    أشهد أن لا إله
  • Hi. Not sure if this is the right place...
     Reply #4 - September 11, 2014, 09:28 AM

    Welcome to the forum Smiley

    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • Hi. Not sure if this is the right place...
     Reply #5 - September 11, 2014, 09:34 AM

    The Dalai Lama still advocates that meditation should be taught in schools, believing it would solve all the violence in the world through the revelations it brings.

    Even if revelations prove elusive it should perhaps be taught. Anything that makes people calmer, more reflective and less aggressive is okay by me.
  • Hi. Not sure if this is the right place...
     Reply #6 - September 11, 2014, 10:08 AM

    Thank you everyone for the welcome  Smiley

    Quote
    Buddhism does not have the cast system, but wouldn't you say that the system is a somewhat natural step from the idea of karma and rebirth?


    While Buddhism rejects the caste system, it still believes that you are born into the life you deserve due to your past karma. While Hindus usually choose to leave the suffering to sort out their own karma, Buddhists believe in helping the suffering. This sounds great at first, but the problem, for me, is in the definition of help. While it's all good for a Buddhist to give me food when I'm starving, matters of emotional suffering are dealt with in a way that has only ever made this worse for me, and then blamed me for not being helped. Buddhists believe that suffering can be ended completely once you "discover your true nature", whatever the heck that means.

    My own death bothers me. The Buddhist cure for this suffering is realize the truth that death isn't the end, rather than find meaning in the life we have here. While believing in an after existence would surely alleviate my suffering, I'm not sure it's healthy for society if people are cured by, what is most likely, lies. Either way, it's caused me a lot of pain over the years trying to force myself to believe in something that I just can't find evidence for, and believing that if I could just get rid of my doubt, I'd be able to achieve Enlightenment and no longer experience any suffering.

    I'm not sure if that was a good answer to your question, though!

    Quote
    I'm curious, is Vill(i)age Idiot a name you were given as a result of a disagreement or did you just come up with it?


    As a teenager, I read Sophie's World, and Socrates became my hero. He was considered the village idiot, as I'm sure you already know. At the time, I was the most unpopular kid in school with both the other students and the teachers. Not much has changed to be honest. I'm no great philosopher, but I do love philosophy. If you ask most people, they'd tell you I'm an idiot.

    Quote
    [on the Dalai Lama advocating meditation being taught in schools] Even if revelations prove elusive it should perhaps be taught. Anything that makes people calmer, more reflective and less aggressive is okay by me.


    The Dalai Lama isn't just the Tibetan spiritual teacher, he's also the Tibetan government in exile. The Dalai Lama doesn't believe in the separation of state and religion.

    Does meditation really make children more relaxed and less aggressive and more reflective? Adults who take up meditation are usually making an effort to relax themselves, and they are probably choosing to be less aggressive and more reflective, rather than being inspired by the meditation they are doing. After meditation, I suspect that violent children will go back to just as violent as they were before.

    People do not need tools like mediation to be kinder to each other. They just have to choose to be kind. I don't think children should be taught that God, or mediation, or whatever other tool will help them to be better people.

    If you think that children should be taught to relax, then teach them a technique no so heavily associated with religion. I'm sure that just laying back in a comfortable chair without talking is just as effective at relaxing people. And it gives you plenty of opportunity to reflect.

    The misspelling in my name is intentional, because I'm an idiot and I can't spell properly. But I'd probably also say that even if it was a mistake. Does that clear things up?
  • Hi. Not sure if this is the right place...
     Reply #7 - September 11, 2014, 10:22 AM

    Welcome to CEMB. Parrot? parrot

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Hi. Not sure if this is the right place...
     Reply #8 - September 11, 2014, 10:32 AM

    Quote
    Welcome to CEMB. Parrot? parrot


    I'm not sure I'm responsible enough for a pet...

    The misspelling in my name is intentional, because I'm an idiot and I can't spell properly. But I'd probably also say that even if it was a mistake. Does that clear things up?
  • Hi. Not sure if this is the right place...
     Reply #9 - September 11, 2014, 10:35 AM

    Welcome. Speaking as the previous incumbent for the title of village idiot, the more the merrier..  Afro
  • Hi. Not sure if this is the right place...
     Reply #10 - September 11, 2014, 10:46 AM

    Out of curiosity which country are you from?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Hi. Not sure if this is the right place...
     Reply #11 - September 11, 2014, 11:24 AM

    A very warm welcome to you, Village Idiot.  Please accept this wonderful  parrot as a token of my regard.

    I do not like the self-deprecating name you have chosen for yourself, and feel sure that it is not a true reflection of either your character or ability.

    A friend of mine used to visit a Buddhist retreat in the English Lake District.  He was not a religious man, but he still enjoyed the tranquillity of his occasional weekends away.  (perhaps being away from his wife also helped)

    At any rate, the people on this site are very warm and open, and I feel sure that you will soon make many new friends.

    I look forward to reading your thoughts and comments.

    Kind Regards,
    Stephen.
  • Hi. Not sure if this is the right place...
     Reply #12 - September 11, 2014, 11:54 AM

    Quote
    A friend of mine used to visit a Buddhist retreat in the English Lake District.  He was not a religious man, but he still enjoyed the tranquillity of his occasional weekends away.  (perhaps being away from his wife also helped)


    LOL about the wife part! Makes me think about the old saying "With friends like this..."

    I realize that lots of people find techniques which are used by Buddhists to be relaxing and enjoyable. Just as people find the food vouchers handed out by Christian organisations to be useful. I just don't believe it's the religion that doing the good.

    Quote
    I do not like the self-deprecating name you have chosen for yourself, and feel sure that it is not a true reflection of either your character or ability.


    Wait a couple more days before you say that.

    The misspelling in my name is intentional, because I'm an idiot and I can't spell properly. But I'd probably also say that even if it was a mistake. Does that clear things up?
  • Hi. Not sure if this is the right place...
     Reply #13 - September 11, 2014, 12:10 PM

    (perhaps being away from his wife also helped

     Cheesy
  • Hi. Not sure if this is the right place...
     Reply #14 - September 11, 2014, 12:35 PM

    I do not attribute "goodness" to religion, and have always deeply resented the way in which religious people try to claim the moral high ground for themselves.

    It is perfectly possible for non-religious people to live decent and honest lives.  In fact, I would say it is more easily achieved when there is no moralistic humbug to hold you back.

    My friend, the one who went on retreats, was open to discussing any religious, political or philosophic opinion.  He was also married to a woman who could talk a glass eye to sleep.  Form your own conclusions from that.

    Kind Regards,
    Stephen.
  • Hi. Not sure if this is the right place...
     Reply #15 - September 11, 2014, 01:07 PM

    Quote
    He was also married to a woman who could talk a glass eye to sleep.


     Cheesy Cheesy

    Man you guys are cracking me up today! Keep it up.. laughter is indeed a beneficial medicine!
  • Hi. Not sure if this is the right place...
     Reply #16 - September 11, 2014, 01:09 PM

    Welcome to the forum Village_Idiot, have a rabbit!  bunny

    I agree with your assessment of Buddhism, hence never seeing it as a rational alternative once I decided to leave Islam. Don't think you can ever call it "smart" when people are organizing themselves around a shared delusion. I hope you enjoy your time and find what you are looking for in our humble community!  Afro

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Hi. Not sure if this is the right place...
     Reply #17 - September 11, 2014, 01:43 PM

    Welcome Villiage idiot, it is very interesting to see an ex buddhist on here, makes a change : )


    x
  • Hi. Not sure if this is the right place...
     Reply #18 - September 11, 2014, 02:33 PM

    Welcome!  parrot
  • Hi. Not sure if this is the right place...
     Reply #19 - September 11, 2014, 02:42 PM

    Welcome! AS Suki stated before; i'm glad to see an ex-Buddhist here. Have a parrot  parrot

    I always thought Buddhism was an interesting religion. From the outside it appears to be just like any other religion (aka mass delusion), but in essence it is a step from naturalism and despite not being supported by evidence does fulfill a person's spiritual needs without advocating violence.

    "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."
  • Hi. Not sure if this is the right place...
     Reply #20 - September 12, 2014, 04:52 AM

    Quote
    [Steven]My friend, the one who went on retreats, was open to discussing any religious, political or philosophic opinion.  He was also married to a woman who could talk a glass eye to sleep.  Form your own conclusions from that.


    I sincerely hope that that you didn't think I was being snide to you or your friend. I'm very bad with words sometimes (well, lots of the time...) Please, anybody tell me if I ever say something that offends them. I'll try my best to make amends...

    Like your friend, I'm also open to discussing any idea, and it doesn't matter whether it comes from religion, philosophy, or a hangover. I think any idea is worth considering and discussing. I just dislike that Buddhist retreats will attract people simply because the the word "Buddhist" is in the title, and people tend to be more willing to listen to the ideas of a spiritual teacher as opposed to the ideas or your average Joe. As Richard Dawkins put it, why is the opinions on the afterlife of your spiritual teacher worth anymore than the opinions of your gardener?

    Quote
    [Yuppy]I always thought Buddhism was an interesting religion. From the outside it appears to be just like any other religion (aka mass delusion), but in essence it is a step from naturalism and despite not being supported by evidence does fulfill a person's spiritual needs without advocating violence.


    I'm not sure that non-violence is always the best solution. The Dalai Lama does not believe that Tibetans should defend their own country. It could be argued that Tibetans stand no chance of defending their own country, but, going to war, under any circumstances, is against Buddhist teaching. I'm not sure I agree with that.

    Quote
    [Quod Sum Eris] Out of curiosity which country are you from?


    Australia. I've heard British people hate us?  Smiley

    The misspelling in my name is intentional, because I'm an idiot and I can't spell properly. But I'd probably also say that even if it was a mistake. Does that clear things up?
  • Hi. Not sure if this is the right place...
     Reply #21 - September 12, 2014, 05:46 AM

    Also, you mentioned that Buddhism can take care of people's spirtual needs. Do you think that people really have spiritual needs? I think people have a desire for meaning, but I don't know that we have innate spirtiual needs.

    The misspelling in my name is intentional, because I'm an idiot and I can't spell properly. But I'd probably also say that even if it was a mistake. Does that clear things up?
  • Hi. Not sure if this is the right place...
     Reply #22 - September 12, 2014, 06:50 AM

    Australia. I've heard British people hate us?  Smiley

    I'm British and I don't hate you (as a person or a nation)  Afro

    Brits like to visit, and even move, to Australia, so I don't think you have anything to worry about there.

    I do however, get the impression that Australians tend to be anti Islam, though I'd never tar everyone with the same brush. And I'm coming round to that position myself now.

    Regarding spirituality, that's a tough one to get my head around. I think I agree with you on not knowing if a spiritual need is some biological part of us that needs to be fed, like eating, drinking, sleeping and sex. It often appears to me to be a self induced need, such as a smoker feels when they "need" a cigarette (guilty).
  • Hi. Not sure if this is the right place...
     Reply #23 - September 12, 2014, 07:34 AM

    Quote
    [Jrg]I do however, get the impression that Australians tend to be anti Islam, though I'd never tar everyone with the same brush. And I'm coming round to that position myself now.


    I think you're right. I don't mean to be harsh, but pretty much everyone I know here hates Islam. Conservative Christians, like our beloved leader, appear to hate them the most.

    Just to clarify, I hate ALL organized religions. I think human beings can be moral and find meaning without organized religion, and that supernatural beliefs just get in the way.

    Quote
    Regarding spirituality, that's a tough one to get my head around. I think I agree with you on not knowing if a spiritual need is some biological part of us that needs to be fed, like eating, drinking, sleeping and sex. It often appears to me to be a self induced need, such as a smoker feels when they "need" a cigarette (guilty).


    Wow. You guys are great. You actually think about every question.  Smiley

    If there's nothing after death, then I'm not sure what the best way to live is. Driven by pleasure, perhaps? If we're born with an innate desire for pleasure, maybe that's part of it's appeal of religions.

    A once read a Christian argument saying that a life believing you are loved by God is the most happy life, and that since there's nothing else that can give you the same kind of feeling, you're best just sticking with God.

    Do you think it's possible to be just as happy as an atheist as a religious person? Or do you think the supernatural promises of religions provide a security that just can't be matched by atheism?

    The misspelling in my name is intentional, because I'm an idiot and I can't spell properly. But I'd probably also say that even if it was a mistake. Does that clear things up?
  • Hi. Not sure if this is the right place...
     Reply #24 - September 12, 2014, 12:09 PM

    Welcome V_I.

    Buddhism has great PR, doesn't it?  Such a peaceful religion!  The reality, of course, is quite different (wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_violence).

    I'm also constantly amused/irritated by 'Buddhist wisdom'.  "What is the sound of one hand clapping?" is no more or less insightful than "is the glass half full or half empty?", but the former has people stroking their chins and nodding sagely because it's like deep, innit?  Wink

    Please accept this, my first    parrot

    "Professor Richard Dawkins was put there by god to test us.  Like fossils.  And facts."  Stewart Lee
  • Hi. Not sure if this is the right place...
     Reply #25 - September 12, 2014, 12:21 PM

    Do you think it's possible to be just as happy as an atheist as a religious person? Or do you think the supernatural promises of religions provide a security that just can't be matched by atheism?


    I've never been remotely religious, but, I do suspect that religion provides an illusion of security, that atheism can't.  In that sense, I don't expect atheism can make you as happy.

    But that is only one aspect of 'happiness'.  I also find it in love for my family and my dog, which I know originates in myself and is not put there by some weird god'ish fairy dust.  I also find it in my small way in music, literature and art.  And I find it in knowing that the Universe is at all times and in all places explicable, if only we can apply the right scientific tool to the task.  And in knowing that clever people are doing that more and more, every day.  These things make knowledge of my forthcoming annihilation just about tolerable  Smiley

    "Professor Richard Dawkins was put there by god to test us.  Like fossils.  And facts."  Stewart Lee
  • Hi. Not sure if this is the right place...
     Reply #26 - September 12, 2014, 02:05 PM

    Australia. I've heard British people hate us?  Smiley

    Nope.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Hi. Not sure if this is the right place...
     Reply #27 - September 12, 2014, 03:11 PM

    Naw we love australia and all want to emigrate their lol, it's the other way around isnt it ? We hear that aussies hate us and call us poms, what is a pom ? 

    edit:  it either stands for pomegranate which is rhyming slang for  british "immigrant"  or means prisoner of mother england - p.o.m.e
  • Hi. Not sure if this is the right place...
     Reply #28 - September 12, 2014, 06:20 PM

    A once read a Christian argument saying that a life believing you are loved by God is the most happy life, and that since there's nothing else that can give you the same kind of feeling, you're best just sticking with God.

    I disagree with this. Yes, whilst someone who believes 110% in their religion/god, then they are likely going to live a happy, fulfilling and satisfying life (if they're not the questioning type and providing they're not lying to themselves). Religion, or more accurately, belief in a religion, can make people do amazing things with their lives.

    Do you think it's possible to be just as happy as an atheist as a religious person? Or do you think the supernatural promises of religions provide a security that just can't be matched by atheism?

    Take a look at other people, who believe 110% in what they're doing. They're also happy, content and satisfied. It's not religion itself that makes people happy, it's having the belief and conviction that what you're doing is right, and that it's not only helping you, but also helping society, even if in the most minute or trivial way.

    I would even go as far as to say, as someone else on this forum has said, that an atheist can perhaps have a more happy, successful and fulfilling life than any religious person: only an atheist can appreciate, totally for themselves, what a wonder the Universe and all of existence is. Atheists don't have to be told to look at the creation of some all powerful creator. Atheists don't have to be told to be nice to others. Atheists don't have to be told to give charity. Atheists do these things because they want to, for themselves, not for the thought of some reward in the next life, or to pay for sins, or whatever  icon_blahblah
  • Hi. Not sure if this is the right place...
     Reply #29 - September 13, 2014, 06:23 AM

    Quote from: Mattiefcf
    Welcome V_I.

    Buddhism has great PR, doesn't it?  Such a peaceful religion!  The reality, of course, is quite different (wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_violence).

    I'm also constantly amused/irritated by 'Buddhist wisdom'.  "What is the sound of one hand clapping?" is no more or less insightful than "is the glass half full or half empty?", but the former has people stroking their chins and nodding sagely because it's like deep, innit?  Wink

    Please accept this, my first    parrot


    This times 100! Thank you for saying this!

    There's nothing profound about "You have no center" or "You have both always existed and never existed".

    There is a common Buddhist quote floating around. It goes like this "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.”

    This has been proven to be a mistranslation. The original text actually claims that reason alone isn't enough, spiritual revelation is needed. It's much the same way as Jesus supposedly said that man can' t live by bread alone. But even if it wasn't a mistranslation, it makes little Buddhist sense. A person who disagrees with Buddhism isn't a Buddhist, pure and simple. And the Buddha believed that people who didn't believe his teachings would suffer in the afterlife. So, the quote would actually be a backhanded compliment.

    The misspelling in my name is intentional, because I'm an idiot and I can't spell properly. But I'd probably also say that even if it was a mistake. Does that clear things up?
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