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Theme Changer

 Topic: Qur'anic studies today

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  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1590 - October 16, 2017, 08:23 PM

    Enough discontinuity between Quranic milieu and later tradition to forget where Masjid al-Haram was? Petra or Mecca, everything passes?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1591 - October 16, 2017, 08:39 PM

    It would seem surprising but then later tradition seems to have forgotten an awful lot.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1592 - October 16, 2017, 09:31 PM

    Well, of course at the time there was no internet with google earth to just quickly check the orientation of the early mosques. Judging from quality of my own memory, must not be too difficult  to make people forget whatever part of history that is inconvenient...
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1593 - October 16, 2017, 09:36 PM

    Maybe it all points to a discontinuity between the religious and scribal milieu where the Qur'an was written and compiled and the Islamic scholarship that developed a few generations later.


    Yes, it's seems quite logic.

    If you looked at the transmission of knowledge, ideas and beliefs over the same period in Christian monastic communities or Rabbinic Judaism I expect you'd find a lot more continuity, presumably in part because of institutional continuity.


    Idem.

    The Qur'an seems to be addressed to people very familiar with stories from Christian literature of one kind or another, but I get the impression that most of that knowledge has disappeared by the time recognisable Islamic scholarship develops.


    Do we have any example of this, namely, of such an oblivion, in the history of humanity ?
    The response, as far as I know, is quite clear : we do not. It is plausible then to set aside this explication : there's no oblivion.

    Maybe there wasn't much real continuity between the (probably quite small) scribal communities where the Qur'an was put together, and the Islamic scholars who came later when Arabic had become the administrative language of empire and the need for Arabic literacy, scribal ability and literary production had vastly increased.


    But the Islamic scholars claim this continuity .In the case of an  oblivion, they would have forgotten this 'oblivion' ?
    The Islamic scholars claim this continuity.More, it is this sole continuity (and I insist... ) from Muhammad to them which explains to them where do they come from and who they are as Muslims. It is their raison d'être this continuity. To tell what they say about themselves they rely on this unique assertion : continuity.
    How does that claim fit with what you wrote, then :
    Maybe it all points to a discontinuity between the religious and scribal milieu where the Qur'an was written and compiled and the Islamic scholarship that developed a few generations later.


    It simply cannot fit. It cannot have continuity and the reverse. We are reasonable people here. We cannot have  something "true" and the opposite "true" in the same time. If yes, one of the assertion is erroneous, wrong, invalid, whatever you call it.
    Yours ?
    I do not think so. Then it is a plot by the Muslims, recounting something which have never existed ? I do not think so as well. Then what ? The continuity they recount and on which they rely to define themselves, their origin and what they are is 'salvation history'. Meaning that they believe in it because it explains the existence of the most important object for them : the Quran, and the fact that they are Muslims.'salvation history' is a belief, a dogma, nothing else. It is a part of the religion.
    'salvation history' is the continuity they claim. But there's no continuity, it is what our reason tells us. Then, the 'salvation history' has to be set aside as the explication of the existence of the Quran.
    Then, all have to be reconstructed.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1594 - October 16, 2017, 11:02 PM

    Altara,

    I think there is plenty of discontinued memory in peoples' religious beliefs.

    But for Christianity we have more written sources to trace the why and wheres than we have for early Islam. Eg the concept of trinity probably seemed an eternal continuous truth that was there from the beginning for eg 10C Christians, but we know from scientific research how it developed.
    Another example is the whole set of saints that was created for useful purposes and I bet most 15C believers thought they were real and venerated for as long as the stories told they existed. How many French know that Jeanne D'Arc is a 20 th C political  saint?

    I can imagine that at a certain moment  Mohammed was more emphasised because he filled a need at the time, or that Masjid al-Haram changed places all of a sudden bc it was more convenient for the Abbasids. (remember the disputes btw Rome and Avignon as papal seats? Imagine if Avignon had won, who would have remembered Rome except the historians?)

    Look how protestantism took over in many European cities. At a certain moment the ruler declared Catholicism was over, no pope anymore, finished. And people complied.

    Discontinued beliefs are not far fetched. Its rather the rule than the exception.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1595 - October 16, 2017, 11:58 PM


    http://www.academia.edu/34434565/Tafsir_und_Tacitus_Anstatt_einer_Besprechung._Zu_Hamed_Abdel-Samad_Der_Koran._Botschaft_der_Liebe_Botschaft_des_Hasses_München_Droemer_Verlag_2016_

    Kerr on anachronistic constructions in beliefs from Islam (Tabari) to Germania (Tacitus).
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1596 - October 17, 2017, 07:53 PM

    Altara,

    I think there is plenty of discontinued memory in peoples' religious beliefs.


    This is not the topic. The topic is continuity or not of history, not religious belief. For Muslims it is history.

  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1597 - October 17, 2017, 10:06 PM

    For a long time, it was the same for Christians, their religious stories were their history. I don't see the difference.
    Read Michael the Syrian (https://archive.org/details/ChroniqueDeMichelLeSyrienT.1Fasc.1translation), how he writes history to begin with Adam and Eve, he has no doubts, he is certain that is the way it happened. I am sure there is no continuity from the time of Adam to Michael's time , but he probably believed there was.
    Viewing religion separate from history is probably a quite recent phenomenon, no?
    Why do you think it is different for Islam?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1598 - October 18, 2017, 03:56 PM

    It is different for Islam because it is the immediate history.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1599 - October 18, 2017, 05:27 PM

    I don't understand what you mean. Islam emergence is 1400 yrs ago with 2 centuries of hardly any written sources. There is nothing immediate about it. Why do you think islam is different from other religions?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1600 - October 19, 2017, 12:06 AM

    It seems clear to me, I do not see what I can say more :
    The continuity they recount and on which they rely to define themselves, their origin and what they are is 'salvation history'. Meaning that they believe in it because it explains the existence of the most important object for them : the Quran, and the fact that they are Muslims.'salvation history' is a belief, a dogma, nothing else. It is a part of the religion.
    'salvation history' is the continuity they claim. But there's no continuity, it is what our reason tells us. Then, the 'salvation history' has to be set aside as the explication of the existence of the Quran.
    Then, all have to be reconstructed.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1601 - October 19, 2017, 01:48 AM

    Muslim salvation history in the form we know now is a later construct. Seems obvious, no?

    Anyone know how big influence was of the discovered tafsir of Tabari in late 19C on muslim theology?
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1602 - October 19, 2017, 09:21 AM

    1)It seems not : https://www.academia.edu/30404531/_Remnants_of_an_Old_Tafs%C4%ABr_Tradition_The_Exegetical_Accounts_of_%CA%BFUrwa_b._al-Zubayr_in_Majid_Daneshgar_and_Walid_Saleh_eds._Islamic_Studies_Today_Studies_in_Honor_of_Andrew_Rippin_Leiden_2016
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1603 - October 19, 2017, 11:10 AM

    These links have been posted before but may be relevant to Goerke’s article above:

    Stephen Shoemaker - In Search of ʿUrwa’s Sīra: Some Methodological Issues in the Quest for "Authenticity" in the Life of Muḥammad

    https://www.academia.edu/1057322/In_Search_of_ʿUrwa_s_Sīra_Some_Methodological_Issues_in_the_Quest_for_Authenticity_in_the_Life_of_Muḥammad

    Goerke, Motzki and Schoeler - First Century Sources for the Life of Muḥammad? A Debate

    https://www.academia.edu/26427188/First_Century_Sources_for_the_Life_of_Muḥammad_A_Debate
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1604 - October 19, 2017, 12:21 PM

    Herbert Berg - The collection and canonization of the Qur’an

    https://www.routledgehandbooks.com/pdf/doi/10.4324/9781315743462.ch3
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1605 - October 19, 2017, 12:47 PM

    From a quick glance at the first few chapters I wouldn’t hold out too much hope here for critical distance from the traditional account. Various authors though so some of it may be better.

    The Blackwell Companion to the Qur’an

    http://islamicblessings.com/upload/Blackwell-Companion-to-the-Quran.pdf
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1606 - October 20, 2017, 12:25 AM

    Thanks Zeca for the stuff which enlighten the topic.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1607 - October 20, 2017, 03:23 PM

    Thread: https://mobile.twitter.com/shahanSean/status/921370344623104000 & https://mobile.twitter.com/shahanSean/status/921376883568267264
    Quote from: Sean Anthony
    A few words about what an extraordinary time it is to work on the early textual transmission and interpretation of the Qurʾan ...


    Also: https://mobile.twitter.com/phoenixnl/status/921400096503328769 & https://mobile.twitter.com/shahanSean/status/921406644726259717
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1608 - October 21, 2017, 10:36 AM

    Quote
    This verse caused commentators some consternation. How could *believers* despair & wish 4 a different Q? Maybe it doesn't mean despair?...


    That's the solution found : changing the meaning of the word because this meaning is unbearable for the commentators. But the meaning is of course 'despair' like the other occurrences. Keep the word but change the meaning. Brainwashing because of politically correctness.
    The reading  'yatabayyan' in  the Mingana-Lewis Palimpsest  and the Wetzstein II 1940 (Ahlwardt 330) is another way to get the same result :  the copyists (or the copyists of the exemplar they have before their eyes or those before them) have decided to not keep the word 'yaiʾasu' because it was unbearable and then decided to change the word.
    It's another indication that contrary to what it is strongly claimed by the traditional account (one more time...), namely that the transmission is oral, is contradicted by the reality. There is no oral transmission, there's written transmission. All is about text, contrary to the claim of "prophetic"  'oral' proclamations then written down. afterwards from them. If this were the case, there should not be 14 readings.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1609 - October 21, 2017, 12:41 PM

    .............., namely that the transmission is oral, is contradicted by the reality. There is no oral transmission, there's written transmission. All is about text, contrary to the claim of "prophetic"  'oral' proclamations then written down. afterwards from them. If this were the case, there should not be 14 readings.

    Hello Altara.,that is an  interesting twist.,  Should I take that as

    There was No Muhammad..No Preacher of Islam.,  but there was a Quran writer (One? multiple??) and the present book was edited by different people a different times??

    I have  to say this  what you say  does make sense  for some parts of Quran .  To start with Quran must be Arabic sonnets and songs of stories from OT & NT  that are  put together to  defend/explain  certain event....

    Now  That is different from  Islamic expansion  by   its warlords  that you see down in the history of Islamic expansion

    [
    Quote
    u]632: Death of the Holy Prophet.[/u]  Election of Hadrat Abu Bakr as the Caliph.   Usamah leads expedition to Syria. Battles of Zu Qissa and Abraq. Battles of Buzakha, Zafar and Naqra. Campaigns against Bani Tamim and Musailima, the Liar.
    633: Campaigns in Bahrain, Oman, Mahrah Yemen, and Hadramaut. Raids in Iraq. Battles of Kazima, Mazar, Walaja, Ulleis, Hirah, Anbar, Ein at tamr, Daumatul Jandal and Firaz.
    634: Battles of Basra, Damascus and Ajnadin. Death of Hadrat Abu Bakr. Hadrat Umar Farooq becomes the Caliph. Battles of Namaraq and Saqatia.
    635: Battle of Bridge. Battle of Buwaib. Conquest of Damascus. Battle of Fahl.
    636: Battle of Yermuk. Battle of Qadsiyia. Conquest of Madain.
    637: Conquest of Syria. Fall of Jerusalem. Battle of Jalula.
    638: Conquest of Jazirah.
    639: Conquest of Khuizistan. Advance into Egypt.
    640: Capture of the post of Caesaria in Syria. Conquest of Shustar and Jande Sabur in Persia. Battle of Babylon in Egypt.
    641: Battle of Nihawand. Conquest Of Alexandria in Egypt.
    642: Battle of Rayy in Persia. Conquest of Egypt. Foundation of Fustat.
    643: Conquest of Azarbaijan and Tabaristan (Russia).
    644: Conquest of Fars, Kerman, Sistan, Mekran and Kharan.[/u] Martyrdom of Hadrat Umar. Hadrat Othman becomes the Caliph.
    645: Campaigns in Fats.
    646: Campaigns in Khurasan, Armeain and Asia Minor.
    647: Campaigns in North Africa. Conquest of the island of Cypress.
    648: Campaigns against the Byzantines.
    651: Naval battle of the Masts against the Byzantines.
    652: Discontentment and disaffection against the rule of Hadrat Othman.
    656: Martyrdom of Hadrat Othman. Hadrat Ali becomes the Caliph. Battle of the Camel.
    657: Hadrat Ali shifts the capital from Madina to Kufa. Battle of Siffin. Arbitration proceedings at Daumaut ul Jandal.
    658: Battle of Nahrawan.
    659: Conquest of Egypt by Mu'awiyah.
    660: Hadrat Ali recaptures Hijaz and Yemen from Mu'awiyah. Mu'awiyah declares himself as the Caliph at Damascus.
    661: Martyrdom of Hadrat Ali. Accession of Hadrat Hasan and his abdication. Mu'awiyah becomes the sole Caliph.
     
    662: Khawarij revolts.
    666: Raid of Sicily.
    670: Advance in North Africa. Uqba b Nafe founds the town of Qairowan in Tunisia. Conquest of Kabul.
    672: Capture of the island of Rhodes. Campaigns in Khurasan.
    674: The Muslims cross the Oxus. Bukhara becomes a vassal state.
    677: Occupation of Sarnarkand and Tirmiz. Siege of Constantinople.
    680: Death of Muawiyah. Accession of Yazid. Tragedy of Kerbala and martyrdom of Hadrat Hussain.
    682: In North Africa Uqba b Nafe marches to the Atlantic, is ambushed and killed at Biskra. The Muslims evacuate Qairowan and withdraw to Burqa.
    683: Death of Yazid. Accession of Mu'awiyah II.
    684: Abdullah b Zubair declares himself aS the Caliph at'Makkah. Marwan I becomes the Caliph' at Damascus. Battle of Marj Rahat.
    685: Death of Marwan I. Abdul Malik becomes the Caliph at Damascus. Battle of Ain ul Wada.
    686: Mukhtar declares himself as the Caliph at Kufa.
    687: Battle of Kufa between the forces of Mukhtar and Abdullah b Zubair. Mukhtar killed.
    691: Battle of Deir ul Jaliq. Kufa falls to Abdul Malik.
    692: The fall of Makkah. Death of Abdullah b Zubair. Abdul Malik becomes the sole Caliph.
    695: Khawarij revolts in Jazira and Ahwaz. Battle of the Karun. Campaigns against Kahina in North Africa. The' Muslims once again withdraw to Barqa. The Muslims advance in Transoxiana and occupy Kish.
    700: Campaigns against the Berbers in North Africa.
    702: Ashath's rebellion in Iraq, battle of Deir ul Jamira.
    705: Death of Abdul Malik. Accession of Walid I as Caliph.
    711: Conquest of Spain, Sind and Transoxiana.
    712: The Muslims advance in Spain, Sind and Transoxiana.
    713: Conquest of Multan.
    715: Death of Walid I. Accession of Sulaiman.
    716: Invasion of Constantinople.
    717: Death of Sulaiman. Accession of Umar b Abdul Aziz.
    720: Death of Umar b Abdul Aziz. Accession of Yazid II.
    724: Death of Yazid II. Accession of Hisham.
    725: The Muslims occupy Nimes in France.
    732: The battle of Tours in France.


    that is 1st 100 years of Islam after the death of alleged Prophet of Islam



    The Caliphate, 622–750   Expansion under Muhammad, 622–632   Expansion during the Rashidun Caliphs, 632–661   Expansion during the Umayyad Caliphate, 661–750

    that picture is expansion Caliphate from wiki with in 100 years of Islam

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1610 - October 21, 2017, 05:20 PM

    Marijn van Putten - How Linguistically Unified was Pre-Islamic Poetry?

    http://phoenixblog.typepad.com/blog/2017/10/how-linguistically-unified-was-pre-islamic-poetry.html
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1611 - October 21, 2017, 05:39 PM

    Free online course on the Birmingham Qur’an: https://www.futurelearn.com/courses/birmingham-quran
    Quote
    Discover the story behind one of the oldest Islamic manuscripts in the world

    The Birmingham Qur’an is one of the oldest surviving Islamic manuscripts. This course will explore the origins and the journey of the Birmingham Qur’an from the Islamic heartlands, the significance of the Birmingham Qur’an, the methods used to determine its age and how it is cared for at Cadbury Research Library, University of Birmingham. Learn how to identify features of Qur’an manuscripts and how they influenced the arts of the book in Islamic manuscript culture. You will also learn more about the Mingana collection of Middle Eastern manuscripts and their relevance to the 21st century.

  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1612 - October 21, 2017, 05:45 PM

    well  this  is  part of The Poem of Antar from http://www.sacred-texts.com/isl/hanged/hanged2.htm
    Quote
    http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?p=49260#p49260

    The Poem of Antar

    "Oh house of 'Ablah situated at Jiwaa,
    talk with me about those who resided in you.
    Good morning to you, O house of 'Ablah,
    and be safe from ruin."

    "I was enamored of her unawares,
    at a time when I was killing her people,
    desiring her in marriage; but by your father's
    life I swear, this was not the time for desiring." ..

     
    And this is poem from that GREAT MAN OF MODERN EGYPT  Taha Hussein
    Quote

    They shorten the idea that Islam and the teachings of Islam
    I thought you deceiver and guide whom you want
    Harmful ugly humiliating for arrogance and pride
    Jabbar bass not for people insidious and subtle
    Cut off the hands of thieves and translated women's bodies
    Assess the sword just Fdlk in bloodshed

    O Creator of the killers tell me where is the God of the weak
    If you were the creator of all things deprived some of them to stay
    What will you reap the murder of non-demolition and yard
    Do you worship a butcher innocent crushes livers?

    I worship the devil or you send us the seal of the prophets
    Calculated paradise for the mujahideen will dwell powerful
    Passes and grapes and figs and rivers of wine devoutly
    The best haven for hungry lived in the heart of the desert
    And a family of precious sapphire ring and Hur singing
    We are lovers of believers came and Pena appeal
    May Allah reward our best and see how God penalty
    Is paradise struggle and shrieking and penetration without flexion
    Poplar divorced renewed a virgin and you are Balrvae
    Do you worship pimped playing in the minds of fools
    I worship the devil or you send us the seal of the prophets


    Yes......... I don't see the difference between the faith heads that worship  the devil and those that worship the god ....  most of the time they & their actions  are one and the same ...  yeezevee

    Hmm   http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Polemics/poetry.html .,  

    Quote
    Taha Husayn published a sensational book called Fi'l-shi`r al-Jahili[3] ('On Pre-Islamic Poetry') in 1925. This book dealt with his revolutionary views on the nature of the Arabic poetry, which had been generally accepted in the Arab world as having flourished in the Arabian desert before the rise of Islam. The publication of this book provoked such a violent storm of protests that Taha Husayn felt obliged to withdraw it from the market. In Fi'l-adab al-Jahili[4] ('On Pre-Islamic Literature'), which appeared two years later, he maintained the full vigor of his original argument but omitted certain passages that had aroused the previous Muslim sentiment. In brief,
    Quote
    Taha Husayn's theory maintained that pre-Islamic literature was a latter day forgery, based on a massive conspiracy involving political, religious, exegetical, professional, patriotic, and resistance motives.

     

     
    Rogues  and Roguish Propaganda.,   good one to read from Rascals  on that pre -Islamic Poems  of Arabia

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1613 - October 21, 2017, 07:23 PM

    Uri Rubin - Apes, Pigs and the Islamic Identity

    https://www.academia.edu/34872437/_Apes_Pigs_and_the_Islamic_Identity_Israel_Oriental_Studies_17_1997_89--105
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1614 - October 22, 2017, 09:53 AM

    Hello Altara.,that is an  interesting twist.,  Should I take that as

    There was No Muhammad..No Preacher of Islam.,  but there was a Quran writer (One? multiple??) and the present book was edited by different people a different times??


    1) Yes ; 2) yes : 3) yes ; 4) it's more complicated  but you have the landscape.
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1615 - October 22, 2017, 02:09 PM

    1) Yes ; 2) yes : 3) yes ; 4) it's more complicated but you have the landscape.

    Noooooooo..

    That answer is NOT good enough for me., I  want to read more/learn more  from your pen on that  complicated landscape.

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1616 - October 22, 2017, 08:04 PM

    Zellentin’s book now freely available online. I think this is one worth looking at.

    Holger Zellentin - The Qurʾān’s Legal Culture: The Didascalia Apostolorum as a Point of Departure

    https://www.academia.edu/34760661/The_Qurʾān_s_Legal_Culture_The_Didascalia_Apostolorum_as_a_Point_of_Departure_Tübingen_Mohr_Siebeck_2013_
    Quote
    The following pages contextualize the Qurʾān’s legal aspects within the religious culture of its time, the early seventh century of the Common Era. I hold that a majority of the laws promulgated in the Qurʾān, as well as its legal narratives about the Israelites and about Jesus, have close commonalities to the laws and narratives of the Didascalia Apostolorum. The legal and theological vocabulary of the Arabic Qurʾān likewise shows much affinity with that of the Syriac (Eastern Christian Aramaic) version of the Didascalia. This shared vocabulary corroborates the legal and narrative commonalities between the two texts. That said, the Qurʾān is not “based” on the Didascalia in any direct way. Detailed comparison of the two documents will illustrate the absence of textual influence in either direction. Both should rather be read against the background of the oral discourse shared by their audiences. I contend that, largely due to this shared oral tradition, the Qurʾān takes a stand on a significant part of the legal issues mentioned in the Didascalia, but without being constrained by the Didascalia’s rulings...

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=840&v=aqpYgNVzK2w
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1617 - October 22, 2017, 09:38 PM

    Ahmad Al-Jallad - The Word, the Blade, and the Pen: Three Thousand Years of Arabic (book preview)

    http://aljallad.nl/the-word-the-blade-and-the-pen-three-thousand-years-of-arabic-book-preview/
    Quote
    Arabic’s history spans nearly three thousand years.  The language first appears as a shadowy idiom in the early 1st millennium BCE, sporadically attested in ancient rock inscriptions from the southern Levant and North Arabia and fragments in the documents of major empires.  In Classical Antiquity, Arabic flourishes as a written language among the nomads of North Arabia and the Syro-Jordanian desert, and by mid-first millennium CE, it had become the language of world empires and international scientific discourse.  Ahmad Al-Jallad plots out the complex evolution of the world’s fifth most widely spoken language.  For the first time, Arabic’s entire history will be told, with a special focus on the primary sources and their socio-cultural contexts.  The evolution of both the language and its associated writing traditions are discussed in light of linguistic, historical, and archaeological research, and presented as a coherent narrative. The book is divided into three parts — 1) the Word: Arabic’s earliest stages when it remained a purely spoken language. Evidence for it is preserved in transcriptions of loanwords, personal names, and other fragments in the written languages of the time; 2) the Blade: this refers to the instrument used to carve rock inscriptions, usually a sharp stone or metal blade. Arabic is abundantly attested in rock inscriptions from the late first millennium BCE onward; 3) the Pen: in the early first millennium CE, Arabic is written more and more frequently in the Nabataean script and in ink. This catalyzes the evolution of the Arabic script as we know it and ultimately the transformation of Arabic into a world language.

    The book is in contract with Princeton University Press and expected to appear in 2019.

  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1618 - October 22, 2017, 09:49 PM

    Zellentin’s book now freely available online. I think this is one worth looking at.

    Holger Zellentin - The Qurʾān’s Legal Culture: The Didascalia Apostolorum as a Point of Departure

    https://www.academia.edu/34760661/The_Qurʾān_s_Legal_Culture_The_Didascalia_Apostolorum_as_a_Point_of_Departure_Tübingen_Mohr_Siebeck_2013_

    Well  Holger Zellentin was a student of the late dr.  Patricia Crone ., Sure she will follow dr. Crone's critical thinking on  Quran .. Anyway  let me put a pdf link for that   The Didascalia Apostolorum translation here .

    frankly speaking there is NOTHING NEW IN QURAN  except those verses   with proper names   such as   Abū Lahab( the names that you don't find in OT /NT stories)

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Qur'anic studies today
     Reply #1619 - October 23, 2017, 09:10 AM

    Noooooooo..

    That answer is NOT good enough for me., I  want to read more/learn more  from your pen on that  complicated landscape.


    You'll get your answers, I'm on it. I think I have the landscape, all the sources are here, it suffices just to read them outside the traditional account (Arabic prophet, Mecca/Medina, Zem-Zem well, etc).
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