So you have no source to backup your claim ; an opinion is not a fact ; I admit that as I also have my opinions but opinions have limitations.
In any case my opinion is the result of logical reasoning from the sources and the informations we have.
You keep on ignoring the other Sebeos writings that I summarized and only quote the narrative about the building of a place of prayer on the Temple Mount. So let me refresh your memory ; according to Sebeos, Jews did ally with Arabs and convinced them to wage war against Byzantium to recapture Israel. Once Jerusalem was seized, the Jews started building their own place of prayer but the Arabs "jealous" of them expelled them and built their own.
Indeed that is the issue.
1/ In the episode about the building of a place of prayer on the Temple Mount there is nothing that allude to a supposed "alliance" that you say it exists between Jews and Arabs. The Jews build something, Arabs or not.
2/ Sebeos : (Let's imagine that Sebeos is a contemporary writer, this point is disputed...)
It is
the Jews side :
"At that time, Jews from the twelve tribes came and gathered in the city of the Edesenes[319] When they saw that the army had withdrawn and left the city in peace, they closed the gates, fortified themselves there and did not let the troops of the Roman kingdom in. The Greek emperor Heraclius then gave the order to besiege it. [The Jews] recognizing that they could not resist in the struggle, made proposals for peace to[the emperor], opened the gates of the city and came to appear before him. He commanded them to withdraw and to stay at home, and they set out on their journey. They took the path of the desert and arrived in Arabia, among the children of Ishmael ; they called them to their aid and let them know that they were relatives, according to the Bible. Although they willingly believed in this close relationship,[the Jews] could not convince the entire mass of the people because their cults were different."
The Jews called the Arabs to their aid.
The issue is that Sebeos is mistaken/lied : as already said the Arabs know that they are son of Ishmael since the 5th c. Sebeos knows it as well.
It is
only with this assertion (they called them to their aid and let them know that they were relatives, according to the Bible. ) that Sebeos build his theory (Jews taught after Edessa siege to Arabs that they are son of Ishmael and therefore Mohammed continues… and especially that Jews got an alliance with them ). The only problem is that it is historically inexact. From this moment all his theory fails. There is no alliance directed by the Jews because they have taught to the Arabs something new , namely that they are sons of Ishmael and relatives : simply because they knew it before. As such then, there is no reason for the Arabs to accept. But this is the only reason advanced by Sebeos that the Arabs, because of its discovering , would accept it.
Moreover about the "alliance" the Jews half fail : "
[the Jews] could not convince the entire mass of the people because their cults were different." Sebeos knows very well that there is no "alliance" directed officially by a Jewish army, such as what one understand as an "alliance". He is obliged to note it. But as he is persuaded that the Jews are implied in the emergence of the Arab, he tries to make sense of what he knows (or think knowing...) and what he thinks about the implication of the Jews which is always his premise. He is yet forced to note that they fail :
[the Jews] could not convince the entire mass of the people because their cults were different.
It is clear, they half fail.
Keep on with Sebeos, following the previous text :
It is now
from the Arab side At that time there was one of the children of Ishmael, named Mohammed, a merchant ;[320] he presented himself to them as God's command, as a preacher, as the way of truth, and taught them to know the God of Abraham ; for he was very learned and very knowledgeable in the history of Moses.[321]. As the order came from above, they all rallied, on the authority of one, to the unity of the law and, abandoning the cults of vanity, returned to the living god who had revealed himself to their father Abraham.
Late account of Muslim facture not known in the 7th c.
Mohammed instructed them not to eat the flesh of any dead animal[naturally], not to drink wine, not to lie and not to fornicate. He added : "God swore an oath to this land to Abraham and his descendants after him forever ; he acted according to his promise when he loved Israel. But you are Abraham's sons and God fulfils in you the promise made to Abraham and his descendants. Love only the god of Abraham, go and seize your territory, which God gave to your father Abraham, and no one can resist you in the battle, for God is with you.
It is the Gallez thesis. (replacing the Jews by the Judeo-Nazareans...)
Same here : it is later Muslims account (drawn from the Quran “heirs of the land”, etc.) more or less arranged. No other 7 c. testimonies attests of this. That is why (among other things) Sebeos is called Pseudo-Sebeos and is considered as a later text and not of the 7 c. …
Keep on with Sebeos, following the previous text :
Then :
Then they all gathered together, from Ewiwlay to Sur and opposite Egypt ;[322] they came out of the Phapan desert divided into twelve tribes, according to the race of their patriarchs. And they divided among their tribes the twelve thousand children of Israel,[323] thousand per tribe, to guide them into the territory of Israel:[324] And they journeyed, camp by camp, according to the order of their patriarchs:[325] Nabeuth, Kedar, Abdiwl, Mosamb,[326] (Mast,) Masmay, Idovmay, Mas ;, Kholdat, Theman, Yetur, Naph ; s and Kedmay. These are the tribes of Ishmael. They went to Eraboth Moab[327] in the territory of Reuben. Because the Greek army was camping in Arabia.[...]
Sebeos presents Arabs that he has presented in the first part of his account as the
helpers of the Jews as now the
leaders, and the Jews as the helpers. Why ? Because there is no Jewish army anywhere, the chiefs and the armies are Arabs. Sebeos
is obliged to inverse what he has just said ; the real chiefs are Arabs, not Jews. And as he is persuaded that the Jews are implied, and it is that he wants to show he says that they were the guides of the Arabs, etc.
Keep on with Sebeos, following the previous text :
All that remained of the peoples of the children of Israel came to unite with them and they formed a great army. Then they sent an embassy to the emperor of the Greeks, saying, "God gave this land to our father Abraham and his descendants after him as an inheritance ; we are Abraham's children ;
Sebeos keep on to involve the Jews as actors of the war.
Interestingly the second phrase is attested in the 8/9 c. in the Muslims sources.
[...]
There is much to say about Sebeos narrative but it is enough to explain the events on the Temple Mount and this without the use of the Quranic text.
Not really so much.
Then all the passage about the alliance
I will say again the designs of the insurgent Jews who, having met for some time with the assistance of the Hagarachs,[350] conceived the design to rebuild the temple of Solomon ; having discovered the place called Saint of the Saints, they built there with the foundations and the building a place of prayer for themselves. The Ishmaelites, jealous of them, pushed them away from this place and called this place their [house] of prayer. [The Jews] built in another place, near the temple, another place of prayer for themselves
Why the Arabs are jealous ? Because they are the sons of Ishmael. That they know since age and not by the Jews at that moment.
You said:
Sebeos narrative but it is enough to explain the events on the Temple Mount and this without the use of the Quranic text.
“Enough”; is not an explication.
You do not give any explication to :
The Ishmaelites, jealous of them, pushed them away from this place and called this place their [house] of prayer.
Suddenly, it is the business of the Arabs ? Ah yes the Jews ! Not at all, they are ; Ishmaelites ; sinces ages.
They considers that there is their place like Sebeos said ; called this place
their [house] of prayer ;
You have enough ; as explication. It’ ; s weak.
I give one explication : Q 2,127.
The rest of the story is very interesting :
[The Jews] built in another place, near the temple, another place of prayer for themselves ; and proposing an evil purpose, they wanted to fill Jerusalem from one end of it to the other with blood and destroy all Christians there. Now, one of the great ones of Ishmael was going to bow down instead of prayers reserved for them. Three of the chief Jews came before him ; they had killed two pigs and carried them and placed them in the place of prayer, and had shed blood on the walls and on the floor of the house.[351] When this man saw them, he stopped and spoke with them. They answered him, passed over and went away. As for him, immediately entering the interior to pray, he saw the misdeed [committed] and came back immediately to arrest these men. When he did not find them, he kept quiet and went back home. Then several entered, saw the mischief and spread the bad news throughout the city. The Jews informed the prince that the Christians had defiled the place of prayer ; the prince gave the order to gather all the Christians, and as they were going to pass them all with the sword, the man came, presented himself and said : "Why do you shed so much innocent blood ? Give the order to gather all the Jews and I will show you those who deserve to die. When they had all been gathered together, he entered among them, recognizing the three men he had met. They were seized and subjected to a harsh judgment until they revealed the plot. Since their prince was one of these Jews, he ordered six men, the conspiracy leaders, to be killed and allowed the others to return home.
One can see clearly that the Arabs are not driven by whatever the Jews of the time told them as Marc tends to make believe to explain what recounts Sebeos. They are driven 1/ by their knowledge that they are the sons of Ishmael, (since ages) and 2/ that they want to take the place of the Jews. Is there simply because they consider themselves as the sons of Ishmael ? It is possible. I introduce however Quranic passage here : Q 2, 127 :
127. And when Abraham and Ishmael were raising the foundations of the House, (Abraham prayed) : Our Lord ! Accept from us (this duty). Lo ! Thou, only Thou, art the Nearer, the Knower
Why ? Simply because one have other account that staged, in 637, the Arabs only as builders of their house of prayer on the Temple Mount :
Narratives 18 and 19 of this appendix concern Sophronius in his
position of patriarch of Jerusalem and are recounted on the authority
of a contemporary of his, the archdeacon Theodore. Number 19 tells how :
The godless Saracens entered the holy city of Christ our Lord, Jerusalem, with the permission of God and in punishment for our negligence, which is considerable, and immediately proceeded in haste to the place which is called the Capitol. They took with them men, some by force, others by their own will, in order to clean that place and to build that cursed thing, intended for their prayer and which they call a mosque (midzgitha).
R.G. Hoyland Seeing Islam as Others Saw It p.63.
At last, that Quranic texts were known by military leaders is that the specific Quranic word
muhājirun is used in the PERF 558 dated of 643. 6 years after 637.Far from Palestine and Jerusalem.
Is it still the Jews here as well ? I do not think so. I think it comes from Quranic texts. It seems logical.
Thus when you state:
- there is no proof that the arabs entering Jerusalem did read the Quran,
With the PERF 558 you’re wrong. A (very) specific Quranic word are written down in Egypt by Arabs who has necessarily pass via Palestine.
The Sunna was not written in the first century AH so this is your explanation (the Quran anyway doesn't mention 5 prayers nor how to perform them but the Sunna does). I suggest you read Patricia Crone God's Caliph ; it does tackle this topic indirectly.
You’re right about the prayer.
But for the rest you have no responses:
Or, that people were reciting Arabic poetry from the pulpits of mosques, mistakenly thinking they were reciting verses from the Quran.
Is it still the Jews responsible for building those mosques ?
I do not think so. I hold that only chiefs and not all have some Quranic texts. Which corresponds to what one can observe about the C14 date of earliest manuscripts.
The text of Sebeos is not as clear as stated Marc :
according to Sebeos, Jews did ally with Arabs and convinced them to wage war against Byzantium to recapture Israel. Once Jerusalem was seized, the Jews started building their own place of prayer but the Arabs "jealous" of them expelled them and built their own.
There is no alliance directed by the Jews because they have taught to the Arabs that they are sons of Ishmael : simply because Arabs knew it before. It is the argument on which Sebeos build all his theory of an alliance suffice to read what he said.
One knows that the Arabs wage war in 602/3 against their Persians masters for EXCELLENT reasons (Sivers video) : they did not need the incentive of the Jews to start the war. The Arab war is not a Jewish war. Is it a Jewish war ; because why then, wage war against Constantinople? I’m sure one can
find why. And it is not tied with the Jews...
Topic: Qur'anic studies today