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 Topic: Female Circumcision (FGM) in Islam

 (Read 6522 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Female Circumcision (FGM) in Islam
     OP - November 01, 2014, 04:45 AM

    I recently wrote an article exploring the subject of female excision within Islamic Tradition - some of you may find it to be of interest.

    http://klingschor.blogspot.com.au/2014/10/female-circumcision-fgm-in-islam.html

    My conclusion came as a surprise - my starting assumption was that female excision is purely cultural and 'un-Islamic', without any basis within Islamic Tradition.
  • Female Circumcision (FGM) in Islam
     Reply #1 - November 01, 2014, 08:43 AM

    I read it when it was published. Awesome work as always, Klingschor.

    You might be interested in those:

    Female circumcision in Indonesia - Population Council - a 2003 very elaborate report on the practice in Indonesia.

    Stop FGM Indonesia
    Quote
    Female Genital Mutilation has been documented to be practiced in Indonesia since the 17th century. During the past 20 years a number of  regional studies have found a prevalence of more than 90 percent in some areas.


    The Jakarta Post in 2013: Indonesian Ulema Council wants FGM

    2009: Malaysia storm over female circumcision

    For the Kurds:
    Study shows: Majority of Kurdish Women in Iraq Victims of Genital Mutilation

    This short documentary regarding FGM in Kurdistan tells of the struggle to stomp it out there:

    FGM: the film that changed the law in Kurdistan
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHLf0bOJwZM

    Of course, Muslims are in total denial about the link and that it is either obligatory or highly recommend in all four Sunni madhabs. It seems like no matter how many sources I throw at people they keep on repeated "only black Africans do it! Christians do it too! It has nothing to do with Islam!".

    The mind boggles.

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Female Circumcision (FGM) in Islam
     Reply #2 - November 01, 2014, 08:54 AM

    Very nice work. But I'm a bit surprised, I thought it was more or less common knowledge that FGM was an Islamic practice. Huh?  Seems the dawaganda has done its magic, while still holding on to the practice out of sight from possible white future converts.

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Female Circumcision (FGM) in Islam
     Reply #3 - November 01, 2014, 09:14 AM

    Very nice work. But I'm a bit surprised, I thought it was more or less common knowledge that FGM was an Islamic practice. Huh?

    They don't want to be intellectual honest. They want to win. They get community points for it. And a warm fuzzy feeling.

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Female Circumcision (FGM) in Islam
     Reply #4 - November 01, 2014, 10:33 AM

    The types of fgm in Malaysia and Indonesia are different than the ones in parts of Africa, and also in line with Islamic law.

    Quote
    FGM is prevalent in Malaysia.[159][160][161] It is widely considered as a female sunnah tradition (sunat perempuan), typically done by midwife (mak bidan). It is either a prick (Type IV) or cutting off a small piece of the highest part of clitoral hood and foreskin (Type I).[162] FGM Prevalence rates have been estimated between 62% to 90% in Muslim Malay communities.[159] Malaysian women claim religious obligation (82%) as the primary reason for female circumcision, with hygiene (41%) and cultural practice (32%) as other major motivators for FGM prevalence.[159][162] Malaysia is a multicultural society, FGM is prevalent in Muslim community, and not observed in its minority Buddhist and Hindu communities.[162][163] Malaysia has no laws in reference to FGM.[164] The Malaysian government sponsored 86th conference of Malaysia?s Fatwa Committee National Council of Islamic Religious Affairs held in April 2009 decided that female circumcision is part of Islamic teachings and it should be observed by Muslims, with the majority of the jurists in the Committee concluding that female circumcision is obligatory (wajib). However, the fatwa noted harmful circumcision methods are to be avoided.[165] In 2012, Malaysian government health ministry proposed guidelines to reclassify and allow female circumcision as a medical practice.[166]



    Quote
    FGM is prevalent in Indonesia.[167][168][169] [170]In certain communities of Indonesia, mass female circumcision (khitanan massal) ceremony are organized by local Islamic foundations around Prophet Muhammad?s birthday. Some FGM are Type IV done with a pen knife, others are Type I done with scissors. Two Indonesian nationwide studies in 2003 and 2010 found over 80% of Muslim girls are subjected to cutting, typically newborns through the age of 9. More than 90% of adults claimed they wanted the practice to continue.[168][171] Historical records suggest female circumcision in Indonesia started and became prevalent with the arrival of Islam in the 13th century as part of its drive to convert people to Islam. In islands of Indonesia, where partial populations converted to Islam in the 17th century, FGM has been prevalent in Muslim females only.[172][173] In 2006, FGM was banned by the government; however, FGM/C remained commonplace for women in Indonesia - the world?s largest Muslim nation.[174] In 2010, the Indonesian Health Ministry issued a decree outlining the proper procedure for FGM, which activists claim contradicted the 2006 ruling prohibiting clinics from performing any FGM.[175] In 2013, the Indonesian Ulema Council ruled that it favors FGM, stating that although it is not mandatory, it is still ?morally recommended?.[176] The Ulema has been pushing Indonesian government to circumcise girls, claiming it is part of Islamic teachings.[177] Some Indonesian officials, in March 2013, claimed cutting and pricking type circumcision is not FGM.[178]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_female_genital_mutilation_by_country#South.2C_Southeast_and_Central_Asia

    In parts of Africa, as it is in Somalia, the most common is infibulation
    Quote
    Type III (infibulation) is the removal of the external genitalia and the fusion of the wound. The inner and/or outer labia are cut away, with or without removal of the clitoris

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_mutilation#Type_III
    http://2001-2009.state.gov/g/wi/rls/rep/crfgm/10109.htm
     While it Malaysia involves pricking or small cut on the skin.The degree between a nick/pricking or cutting on the top and actually removal of the clitoris inner-outer labia, is what distinguishes what is part of Islam and what isn't.
  • Female Circumcision (FGM) in Islam
     Reply #5 - November 01, 2014, 10:48 AM

    Excellent article, Kling  Afro
  • Female Circumcision (FGM) in Islam
     Reply #6 - November 04, 2014, 01:21 PM

    Don't forget the many medical benefits that female circumcision brings though

    e.g. "Circumcision reduces excessive sensitivity of the clitoris which may cause it to increase in size to 3 centimeters when aroused, which is very annoying to the husband, especially at the time of intercourse. " http://islamqa.info/en/45528

     mysterysolved
  • Female Circumcision (FGM) in Islam
     Reply #7 - November 04, 2014, 01:36 PM

    ^ The fuck did I just read?

    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • Female Circumcision (FGM) in Islam
     Reply #8 - November 04, 2014, 01:37 PM

    Who would find a clitoris "annoying". Like wtf Huh?

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Female Circumcision (FGM) in Islam
     Reply #9 - November 04, 2014, 01:46 PM

    ^ The fuck did I just read?


    Also in the fatwa it does explain that Islamic circumcision does not turn a woman frigid, so surely it's not that bad, right ?

     great
  • Female Circumcision (FGM) in Islam
     Reply #10 - November 04, 2014, 02:07 PM

    Yeah, I read that. So it diminishes sexual desires (according to the fatwa) but you know, just enough so that the woman doesn't act like the filthy whore she was born to be. Mashallah!

    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • Female Circumcision (FGM) in Islam
     Reply #11 - November 04, 2014, 02:13 PM

    If your manhood is threatened by a whole 3 centimetres of clitoris, maybe it's time to call it quits on the whole having sex thing.
  • Female Circumcision (FGM) in Islam
     Reply #12 - November 04, 2014, 05:26 PM

    Given all the horrible infections and complications that come from our clitoris and the little "cap" (Like, really, wtf, Roll Eyes ), it's a miracle that the majority of the world's women who are not circumcised to live normal healthy lives....

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Female Circumcision (FGM) in Islam
     Reply #13 - November 04, 2014, 05:28 PM

    Warm water, no soap, an airing, and good sexual health practices help to stop most infections.
  • Female Circumcision (FGM) in Islam
     Reply #14 - November 04, 2014, 10:06 PM

    Every houshold should have a bidet. I have one in my house. It is great for personal hygiene for women as well as men..

    वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्
    Entire World is One Family
    سارا سنسار ايک پريوار ہے
  • Female Circumcision (FGM) in Islam
     Reply #15 - November 04, 2014, 10:19 PM

    The clitoris and "discharge" has nothing to do with causing infections or whatever, on the contrary. It's the cutting and mutilating that would cause complications... and washing too often with soap and water.  Roll Eyes

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Female Circumcision (FGM) in Islam
     Reply #16 - November 04, 2014, 10:26 PM

    Quote
           The Muʿtazilī scholar ʿAmr ibn Baḥr al-Jāḥiẓ (d. 869): “A woman with clitoris has more pleasure than a woman without clitoris. The pleasure depends on the quantity which was cut from the clitoris. Muhammad said: "If you cut, cut the slightest part and do not exaggerate because it makes the face more beautiful and it is more pleasant for the husband". It seems that Muhammad wanted to reduce the concupiscence of the women to moderate it. If concupiscence is reduced, the pleasure is also reduced as well as the love for the husbands. The love of the husband is an impediment against debauchery. Judge Janab Al-Khaskhash contends that he counted in one village the number of the women who were circumcised and those who were not, and he found that the circumcised were chaste and the majority of the debauched were uncircumcised. Indian, Byzantine and Persian women often commit adultery and run after men because their concupiscence towards men is greater. For this reason, India created brothels. This happened because of the massive presence of their clitorises and their hoods.”[61]

                I wanna laugh and cry.
  • Female Circumcision (FGM) in Islam
     Reply #17 - November 04, 2014, 11:08 PM

    Quote
    Quote
          http://klingschor.blogspot.com.au/2014/10/female-circumcision-fgm-in-islam.html

    ................... The Muʿtazilī scholar ʿAmr ibn Baḥr al-Jāḥiẓ (d. 869): “A woman with clitoris has more pleasure than a woman without clitoris. The pleasure depends on the quantity which was cut from the clitoris. Muhammad said: "If you cut, cut the slightest part and do not exaggerate because it makes the face more beautiful and it is more pleasant for the husband". It seems that Muhammad wanted to reduce the concupiscence of the women to moderate it. If concupiscence is reduced, the pleasure is also reduced as well as the love for the husbands. The love of the husband is an impediment against debauchery. Judge Janab Al-Khaskhash contends that he counted in one village the number of the women who were circumcised and those who were not, and he found that the circumcised were chaste and the majority of the debauched were uncircumcised. Indian, Byzantine and Persian women often commit adultery and run after men because their concupiscence towards men is greater. For this reason, India created brothels. This happened because of the massive presence of their clitorises and their hoods.”[61]...............

               I wanna laugh and cry.


    Let us learn abit about that guy  ʿAmr ibn Baḥr al-Jāḥiẓ

    Quote
    The Muʿtazilī scholar ʿAmr ibn Baḥr al-Jāḥiẓ:   (776 - 868 C.E.)

    Abu 'Uthman 'Amr ibn Bahr al-Kinani al-Fuqaimi al-Basri al-Jahiz was born in Basra in 776 C.E. He studied in Basra, a major intellectual center, under several well known Islamic scholars. Al-Jahiz belonged to an average working class family. During his late teens, while continuing his study, he helped his father in the fish market. Recognizing his more productive talents, one day his mother presented him with a tray of paper notebooks suggesting that he earn his living by means of writing. This incident helped to launch what was to become an illustrious career that lasted more than sixty years.

    Al-Jahiz's earliest writing on the 'Institution of the Caliphate' was well received at the court of Baghdad. Around 815 C.E., al-Jahiz moved to Baghdad, a city founded about fifteen years before his birth as the seat of Abbasid Caliphate and the capital of Islamic Empire (excluding Andalusia, i.e., Spain, Portugal and southern France; see Cordoba). He continued to write on a variety of subjects and was well respected at Caliph's court. Although he was admired by court officials, he never worked for them nor held any official position.
    Quote
    Al-Jahiz wrote more than two hundred works but only thirty are extant. His work included zoology, Arabic grammar, poetry, rhetoric and lexicography. He is considered as one of the few Muslim scientists who wrote on scientific and complex subjects for nonspecialists and common people. His writings contain many anecdotes regardless of the subject he is discussing to make his point and to bring out both sides of an argument. Some of his famous books are: The Book of Animals, The Art of Keeping One's Mouth Shut, Against Civil Servants, Arab Food, In Praise of Merchants, and Levity and Seriousness. On the style of writing, al-Jahiz advanced that:


    "The best style is the clearest, the style that needs no explication and no notes, that conforms to the subject expressed, neither exceeding it nor falling short."  His most famous book 'Kitab al-Hayawan' (Book of Animals) is an encyclopedia of seven large volumes. He was rewarded with 5,000 gold dinars from the court official to whom he dedicated the Book of Animals.

    Kitab al-Hayawan contains an amazing array of scientific information that was not to be fully developed until the first half of the twentieth century. Al-Jahiz discusses his observation in detail on the social organization of ants, animal communication and psychology, and the effects of diet and climate. He described how ants store and preserve grain in their nests during the rainy season. He suggested an ingenious way of expelling mosquitoes and flies from a room based on his observation that some insects are responsive to light. Al-Jahiz expounded on the degree of intelligence of animal species and insects. He also observed that certain parasites adapt to the color of their host, and expounded on the effects of diet and climate not only on men but also on animals and plants.

    Eighty-seven folios of the Book of Animals (about one-tenth of the original text by al-Jahiz) are preserved in Ambrosiana Library in Milan. This collection (a copy of the original) dates from the 14th century and bears the name of the last owner 'Abd al-Rahman al-Maghribi and the year 1615. These folios of the Book of Animals contain more than 30 illustrations in miniature.

    As was common with writings of Muslim scientists of the golden Age (8th to 10th century), al-Jahiz recognized the signs of Allah (The One and Only God) in the creation. In the Book of Animals he wrote that a pebble proves the existence of Allah  just as much as a mountain, and the human body is evidence as strong as the universe - for the small and slight carries as much weight as the great and vast.

    Al-Jahiz returned to Basra after spending more than fifty years in Baghdad. He died in Basra in 868 as a result of an accident in which he was crushed to death by a collapsing pile of books in his private library.


     ............ In the Book of Animals he wrote that a pebble proves the existence of Allah........

    Well   in that case there is nothing in this universe that does not prove the existence of Allah......

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
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