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Theme Changer

 Topic: Muslims and Liberals (M & L)

 (Read 3693 times)
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  • Muslims and Liberals (M & L)
     OP - January 13, 2015, 09:01 PM
    Liberals are forever defending Islam, in fact I've discovered a great test of Liberal bias.  Ask a Liberal, to say anything bad 'at all' about Islam, and normally they can't.  So I was wondering what the general Muslim view of the Liberal was?  I cannot for the life of me see a Muslim jumping to the defense of a Liberal on many of their main issues such as gay rights etc.  So do Muslims reciprocate the Liberal love Smiley 

  • Muslims and Liberals (M & L)
     Reply #1 - January 14, 2015, 01:14 AM
    "Liberals" are not "defending Islam" for the most part, they're defending people defined as "Muslim" from racist attacks and scapegoating. Sometimes this goes too far to the point of defending the religion against all criticism or, more often, buying the liberal Muslim talking point that people like ISIL are not "really Muslims" or doing what they do for Islam. And many Muslims have defended liberals from attack, such as Aziz Ansari in the US.
    إطلب العلم ولو في الصين

    Es sitzt keine Krone so fest und so hoch,
    Der mutige Springer erreicht sie doch.

    I don't give a fuck about your war, or your President.
  • Muslims and Liberals (M & L)
     Reply #2 - January 14, 2015, 02:34 AM
    Not disagreeing with your general point, but Aziz Ansari isn't a Muslim
  • Muslims and Liberals (M & L)
     Reply #3 - January 14, 2015, 02:40 AM
    Quote from: Kayu on January 14, 2015, 02:34 AM
    Not disagreeing with your general point, but Aziz Ansari isn't a Muslim

    No.  no  Aziz Ansari  is a Muslim guy..  It is just that he doesn't follow every rule of Islam...
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Muslims and Liberals (M & L)
     Reply #4 - January 14, 2015, 04:35 AM
    He was born into a Muslim family (duh, his name) but does not consider himself to be practicing. My mistake!
    إطلب العلم ولو في الصين

    Es sitzt keine Krone so fest und so hoch,
    Der mutige Springer erreicht sie doch.

    I don't give a fuck about your war, or your President.
  • Muslims and Liberals (M & L)
     Reply #5 - January 14, 2015, 11:08 AM
    Quote from: FairOrNot on January 13, 2015, 09:01 PM
    Liberals are forever defending Islam, in fact I've discovered a great test of Liberal bias.  Ask a Liberal, to say anything bad 'at all' about Islam, and normally they can't.  So I was wondering what the general Muslim view of the Liberal was?  I cannot for the life of me see a Muslim jumping to the defense of a Liberal on many of their main issues such as gay rights etc.  So do Muslims reciprocate the Liberal love Smiley 


    Too many generalizations there. Muslims are not a single homogenous group who act and think the same. Some support some Liberal views some don't.
  • Muslims and Liberals (M & L)
     Reply #6 - January 14, 2015, 12:09 PM
    My experience of Liberals is they stifle any debate on Islam on the grounds of racism.  However, when did Islam and race become so intrinsically linked?  I remember after 9-11 it became a lot easier to criticize all religion in general.  I felt this was a positive of the events.  In fact I posted on a forum about this positive at the end of 2010.  So I'm reasonably confident at that point it was still the case, as no one disputed it. 

    However, Islam is now often more seen as a race issue than a religious issue for many.  I'm not sure how this has happened.  I'm not ignoring that there is often a cross-over of the two.  But is such a strong link accurate/helpful? 
  • Muslims and Liberals (M & L)
     Reply #7 - January 14, 2015, 03:16 PM
    Quote from: FairOrNot on January 14, 2015, 12:09 PM
    My experience of Liberals is they stifle any debate on Islam on the grounds of racism.  However, when did Islam and race become so intrinsically linked?  I remember after 9-11 it became a lot easier to criticize all religion in general.  I felt this was a positive of the events.  In fact I posted on a forum about this positive at the end of 2010.  So I'm reasonably confident at that point it was still the case, as no one disputed it. 

    However, Islam is now often more seen as a race issue than a religious issue for many.  I'm not sure how this has happened.  I'm not ignoring that there is often a cross-over of the two.  But is such a strong link accurate/helpful? 


    Maybe as a result of opinions of Muslims dropping in the west therefore people targeting them, most Muslims are from ethnic minorities so the two got conflated with the rising of anti-racism pushes. Therefore if you critique Islam and say it is stupid, you are calling a whole ethnic group stupid which would be deemed racist?
  • Muslims and Liberals (M & L)
     Reply #8 - January 14, 2015, 05:02 PM
    https://richarddawkins.net/2015/01/extremism-and-islamism-just-a-few-bad-apples/?utm_source=The+100K&utm_campaign=d7ee0386a7-Jan_14th_Newsletter1_13_2015&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_0d1b243fe9-d7ee0386a7-178743941

    Here is a reasonably balanced article I was just reading that skirts the topic.  What are peoples view on Richard Dawkins? 
  • Muslims and Liberals (M & L)
     Reply #9 - January 14, 2015, 05:08 PM
    I like him.
  • Muslims and Liberals (M & L)
     Reply #10 - January 14, 2015, 06:02 PM
    He fucks up on twitter occasionally but he seems like he is a genuinely good person - a real humanist. He is not Sam Harris.
    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Muslims and Liberals (M & L)
     Reply #11 - January 14, 2015, 07:17 PM
    I personally love Richard Dawkins.
    You are the Universe, Expressing itself as a Human for a little while- Eckhart Tolle
  • Muslims and Liberals (M & L)
     Reply #12 - January 14, 2015, 07:58 PM
    Here is an opinion from an ex-Muslim:

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Muslims and Liberals (M & L)
     Reply #13 - January 14, 2015, 08:34 PM
    Quote from: Nikolaj on January 14, 2015, 06:02 PM
    He fucks up on twitter occasionally but he seems like he is a genuinely good person - a real humanist. He is not Sam Harris.


    I second this. Sometimes I wonder if he personally runs his twitter, especially when compared to his videos and stuff which seem so sensible.
    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Muslims and Liberals (M & L)
     Reply #14 - January 14, 2015, 08:43 PM
    That's a nice letter, Nikolaj...I wish there was a greater ex-Muslim presence on sites like tumblr. At least over here in the United States, it's a huge platform/organizing center for the liberal left and social activism.

    It's also where I've seen some of the nastiest sentiments regarding Charlie Hebdo, with some more prominent users with tens of thousands of followers sometimes explicitly stating that the victims don't deserve any sympathy and are in fact responsible for the police officer's death and the deaths in the kosher market.

    But it's the usual suspects. Ones who are trying so hard to protect the minority without recognizing that they're contributing to the oppression of an even more marginalized group of people also in dire need of help.
  • Muslims and Liberals (M & L)
     Reply #15 - January 14, 2015, 11:57 PM
    Quote from: Nikolaj on January 14, 2015, 07:58 PM
    Here is an opinion from an ex-Muslim:

    (Clicky for piccy!)


    WOW!!!!  What a statement.  So in line with my thinking.  I have so much respect for the enlightenment and how it moved the world forward but I've never linked it in this context.  A profound statement if ever I've read one!   
  • Muslims and Liberals (M & L)
     Reply #16 - January 15, 2015, 04:06 AM
    Quote from: lua on January 14, 2015, 08:43 PM
    That's a nice letter, Nikolaj...I wish there was a greater ex-Muslim presence on sites like tumblr. At least over here in the United States, it's a huge platform/organizing center for the liberal left and social activism.

    It's also where I've seen some of the nastiest sentiments regarding Charlie Hebdo, with some more prominent users with tens of thousands of followers sometimes explicitly stating that the victims don't deserve any sympathy and are in fact responsible for the police officer's death and the deaths in the kosher market.

    But it's the usual suspects. Ones who are trying so hard to protect the minority without recognizing that they're contributing to the oppression of an even more marginalized group of people also in dire need of help.


    I try to steer well clear of tumblr political talks. I can understand their naivety, but sometimes it is just hard to swallow. They are often also those people who, when you (a non-western citizen) complain about the brutality of your government or how controlled the press is in your country, they'd respond to you that "US/UK/Canada/whichever western country they are from" is no better etc etc.

    After that I usually lost any desire to talk to them. I mean I don't exactly blame them, they are usually teenage girls from western countries, whose lives are rather sheltered. It is understandable to be naive. But it is just hard for me to stomach.
  • Muslims and Liberals (M & L)
     Reply #17 - January 15, 2015, 05:30 AM
    It's rough because people like this mean well, many of them are some of the most kindhearted people you can come across, and I often agree with them on other social issues. This particular one is a huge miss, and, like you, I'm not really able to look past it these days. It's an easy mistake to make, but it's also a pretty big one.
  • Muslims and Liberals (M & L)
     Reply #18 - January 15, 2015, 10:30 AM
    I think part of the problem here is Liberals again.  They indoctrinate people in to thinking everyone is the same, so they end up thinking we all have equal problems.  When there are vast differences in how people live.

    This reminds me of the Band Aid song released at Christmas.  People were moaning that it makes Africa look bad, as if people learn World affairs from a pop song?  And if you want people to give money you want to pull at their heart strings not sense of balanced content. 

    "he said. "The song is a question… and there needs to be an answer and the answer is obviously: 'We know it's Christmas.'"

    It's just a rhetorical question and if anyone thinks they don't know it's Christmas they need shooting.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-30119293
  • Muslims and Liberals (M & L)
     Reply #19 - January 15, 2015, 10:37 AM
    Quote from: FairOrNot on January 14, 2015, 05:02 PM
    https://richarddawkins.net/2015/01/extremism-and-islamism-just-a-few-bad-apples/?utm_source=The+100K&utm_campaign=d7ee0386a7-Jan_14th_Newsletter1_13_2015&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_0d1b243fe9-d7ee0386a7-178743941

    Here is a reasonably balanced article I was just reading that skirts the topic.  What are peoples view on Richard Dawkins? 


    He's a half-wit.
  • Muslims and Liberals (M & L)
     Reply #20 - January 15, 2015, 10:37 AM
    No offense.
  • Muslims and Liberals (M & L)
     Reply #21 - January 15, 2015, 12:50 PM
    Quote from: FairOrNot on January 13, 2015, 09:01 PM
    I cannot for the life of me see a Muslim jumping to the defense of a Liberal on many of their main issues such as gay rights etc.  So do Muslims reciprocate the Liberal love Smiley 

    [/b]

    ' Muslims are not a single homogenous group who act and think the same. Some support some Liberal views some don't.'

    I agree with the first statement 100%. Personally, I have never once come across a Muslim defending gay rights, ever - but have met many, many, many who despise homosexuality, some to the extent of psychopathically. I think it is very fair to generalise on that point. Muslims may well not be one homogenous group, but they all, without fail, believe the Koran to be the word of God - or else they cannot be a true Muslim (and of course you can generalise about that too, just as you can a Christian's belief in Jesus).

    To say that - "Some support Liberal views' - is to make an extremely vague statement that means nothing very much at all. Being 'liberal' to one muslim may be to not wear the hijab, to another, thy may not pray 5 times a day - but these proscriptive acts in the first place, so to take a 'liberal' stance, is a bit like a Nazi deciding to keep a jew as a slave rather than send off to the gas chamber - hardly the foundation of free living Liberalism. It would be interesting to see some examples of the liberal views 'some muslims' support.
    Ha Ha.
  • Muslims and Liberals (M & L)
     Reply #22 - January 15, 2015, 03:40 PM
    Quote from: MRasheed on January 15, 2015, 10:37 AM
    He's a half-wit.


    What is a half-wit?
  • Muslims and Liberals (M & L)
     Reply #23 - January 15, 2015, 03:42 PM
    I see left-wingers hail the Islamic Revolution in Iran as a left-wing revolution.

    This is fucking stupid. Khomeini had 30000 left-wingers executed one by one and he is the anti-imperialist hero.
    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Muslims and Liberals (M & L)
     Reply #24 - January 15, 2015, 06:35 PM
    Quote from: Jack Torrance on January 15, 2015, 12:50 PM


    Personally, I have never once come across a Muslim defending gay rights, ever - but have met many, many, many who despise homosexuality, some to the extent of psychopathically.


    There are two big, international Muslim organizations that do:

    Daayiee Abdullah and his whole organization "Muslims for Progressive Values." Some of them are ultra-left or leftist authoritarians. Also, http://imaan.org.uk/

    As a certified fag hag, I know plenty of the gays Wink Once you befriend one openly gay guy, they introduce you to their whole social circle of openly gay guys, and then before you know it you know enough gays that you get nicknamed Dorothy lol.
    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »