Problem of Satan

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- justperusing
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Problem of Satan
OP - January 20, 2015, 04:56 AM

During a phase when I watched a lot of religious propaganda videos, I noticed that whenever someone claimed to have a vision or "spiritual" experience that contradicted other people's theologies, people would start claiming that the individual had not experienced God, but had experienced Satan. There are a bunch of vids on youtube of Muslims seeing visions of Jesus and converting to Christianity, and there are some vids of Christians having visions that led to them becoming Muslims. For the people who converted to Christianity, the Christians would write how "even Satan can disguise himself as an angel of light" and the Muslims would write in response to the Christian convert vids that it "was shaytan (don't really know how to spell it) leading them astray."

If we were to assume the supernatural exists and there is a God who allows for a cunning deceiver named Satan to exist who is extremely good at tricking people into thinking he is an angel and specializes in leading people astray, how can we ever know whether or not we are being lied to about the nature of the supernatural realm? Perhaps Satan inspired the authors of the Bible, or it was really Satan who was disguised as the angel Gabriel teaching Muhammad to recite the Quran. It would seem like something a trickster would do to pretend to be God and lay down violent rules and sadistic threats of hell with a few good verses scattered here and there to cover his tracks. It seems to me that if there were a supernatural realm that included a powerful deceiver or deceivers, we would have no idea if any sort of supernatural experience would be a trick or would have a basis in reality. Any holy text, even if one were to prove a supernatural origin, wouldn't necessarily be from God, but it could be from some Jinn or devil or something.

These may seem like silly objections, but that is just because believers have so much of their work ahead of them just to show that these holy texts don't have human origins that they don't bother with the even more difficult task to show that these messages are actually from god and not from another deceptive supernatural entity that exists under their theology. I say that even if the supernatural were to exist, the realm would be incomprehensible to humans.

"I moreover believe that any religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system."
-Thomas Paine
- yeezevee
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Problem of Satan
Reply #1 - January 20, 2015, 06:49 AM

Quote from: justperusing on January 20, 2015, 04:56 AM
.......................................

If we were to assume the supernatural exists and there is a God who allows for a cunning deceiver named Satan to exist who is extremely good at tricking people into thinking he is an angel and specializes in leading people astray, how can we ever know whether or not we are being lied to about the nature of the supernatural realm? .................

well understanding such behavior of believes is very simple .,

god and satan both sit in their noses and whenever they sneeze or have problems with social, economical. political structure around them or if they have greed, self delusions then some times god speaks to them and sometime Satan speaks to them....

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- justperusing
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Problem of Satan
Reply #2 - January 20, 2015, 07:10 AM

Yeez I'm sorry but it seems the profundity of your comment went over my head

"I moreover believe that any religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system."
-Thomas Paine
- yeezevee
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Problem of Satan
Reply #3 - January 20, 2015, 07:38 AM

Quote from: justperusing on January 20, 2015, 07:10 AM
how can we ever know whether or not we are being lied to about the nature of the supernatural realm? .................
Quote
Yeez I'm sorry but it seems the profundity of your comment went over my head

well what all i am saying is, that question of yours is irrelevant as that concept of god and satan from every religion is nothing but nonsense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r-e2NDSTuE

These believers make up all sorts stories around god and satan to satisfy their spiritual need and greed and they use their respective religious narratives in the name of their god or their satan to satisfy their needs..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLVCZ0lI8-A

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- kephas
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Problem of Satan
Reply #4 - January 20, 2015, 11:30 AM

i remember than in eastern orthodoxy, they have this theological concept called "prelest" or "plani", which meant "spiritual deception". since the eastern orthodox rite is big on mysticism and monasticism, they had a lot of cases whereby monks, or even lay people would be deluded in their spiritual path by satan. they would see or hear visions, claiming to be angels or saints, or god himself. then the visions would make them believe that they've "made it", so to speak, in their spiritual path, leading them to believe that they're better than everyone else, that they're sinless, that they're for sure going to heaven, or that they're saints, etc. anyway the most important rule in eastern orthodox mysticism is: to be humble, because pride is the way that leads you to spiritual deception. st Anthony, which is sort of "the guy" when talking about overcoming demonic deception, relates a story where he saw demons scattered throughout the earth. he then asked, "lord, who can escape these snares" or something like that. he then heard a voice saying "humility".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prelest

then of course, when reading about this concept, I then remembered about what was written about Muhammad in the muslim sources. stuff like him saying he's the best of all mankind, that he deserved to be loved more than the believer's own life, the perfect example, him being sinless, etc.

"we stand firm calling to allah all the time,
we let them know - bang! bang! - coz it's dawah time!"
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