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 Topic: Converting Ex-Muslims to Christianity

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  • Converting Ex-Muslims to Christianity
     OP - January 29, 2015, 08:41 PM
    Hi,

    I experienced something today, which some of you have also experienced.

    Well, I had an appointment at a psychologist today. I told her about my problems with Islam and that I became an Atheist.
    She asked me what specific problems I had with Islam and the Quran.

    I replied:
    - the fact that humans in Islam are seen as slaves of gods. Their only right to exists is to serve god. That's the meaning of life.
    - the fact that disbelievers go to hell + the fact that hell exits, where humans are tortured infinitely
    - the fact that Mo. committed genocide.
    - the fact that Mo. had several wife's and was explicitly allowed to have more than 4 wife's.
    - the fact that Mo. had sex with the 9 year old Aisha.
    - the fact that you are allowed to have sex with slaves. + That you are allowed to have slaves
    - the fact that woman are unequal to man
    - The Quran doesn't sound like the words of a superior being, but more like the words of a man living in the 7th century in a desert.   
    - That there is no proof of god. If he wants me to worship him then at least he should talk to me, or send me very clear evidences. Something like the Quran written on a big wall huge as a mountain.

    Anyways, she said she admires my questions and that I look for the meaning of life.
    But then she asked if I could imagine a god, who more cares about humans and who loves them.
    Me: "Yes, maybe. But he doesn't talk to us, and there is so much pain in the world, that I don't think that there is such a god."
    She: "What would you do if there is a god."
    Me: "Well, if it's the god in the Quran we would have a huge problem."
    She: "YOU would have a problem."
    Me: "YOU, TOO. The entire humanity would have a huge problem."
    She: "Yes, you're right. But I don't think that the god of Islam is the right one. You should pray that god should show himself to you."
    Me: "I don't think that would help. I don't believe in a god."
    She: "Well, if you don't have a god you don't your not safe from the evil. And there is no meaning of life. Everything is limited to the life here on earth."
    Me: "I don't think that I'll get evil, without a god."
    She: "I don't want to convert you, but you should read from the gospel."

    Well, then the session was over. That's just the short version. She repeatably said that she doesn't want to convert me, but...


    That's something I also experienced on some Anti-Islamic websites. They agree that Islam is human-made and then try to convince you to join Christianity.
  • Converting Ex-Muslims to Christianity
     Reply #1 - January 29, 2015, 09:00 PM
    Sounds like you need a new psychologist.
    "I moreover believe that any religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system."
    -Thomas Paine
  • Converting Ex-Muslims to Christianity
     Reply #2 - January 29, 2015, 09:06 PM
    Thats the reason I searched far and wide for a secular psychologist
    "I Knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then." Alice in wonderland

    "This is the only heaven we have how dare you make it a hell" Dr Marlene Winell
  • Converting Ex-Muslims to Christianity
     Reply #3 - January 29, 2015, 09:07 PM
    If you don't mind me asking, are you going to the psychologist as a result of problems relating to leaving religion?
    "I moreover believe that any religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system."
    -Thomas Paine
  • Converting Ex-Muslims to Christianity
     Reply #4 - January 29, 2015, 09:12 PM
    Not only, but mainly yes.
  • Converting Ex-Muslims to Christianity
     Reply #5 - January 29, 2015, 09:21 PM
    That is fucked up. If a psychologist said something like that in Sweden, or any other Scandinavian country, s/he'd lose their job. You don't mix religion into something like that
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Converting Ex-Muslims to Christianity
     Reply #6 - January 29, 2015, 10:01 PM
    I guess in Germany it would be the same if I report it. That's why she said that she doesn't want to convert me, but secretly she the exactly that. But I'm not going to report it.
    It would be my word against hers. She would probably say that I misunderstood her.
  • Converting Ex-Muslims to Christianity
     Reply #7 - January 29, 2015, 10:33 PM
    I am curious as to know what she will not convert you to. Perhaps you are the first ex-Muslim she has met so her brain melted?

    Nonetheless it sounds very unprofessional.
    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Converting Ex-Muslims to Christianity
     Reply #8 - January 29, 2015, 11:21 PM
    Quote from: justperusing on January 29, 2015, 09:00 PM
    Sounds like you need a new psychologist.


    This.

    I would report her, ElToro. Since she's trying to push her religion on you, who knows how else she's using her religion against others who are vulnerable who come to her for help? She could be promoting homophobia, transphobia, and other various "Christian" beliefs. Unless she advertises herself as a Christian therapist, she should not be promoting her religious beliefs on to people who come to her as patients.

    And yeah I would definitely advise you to find a new therapist. I'm sure you can find one who is secular/non-religious/atheist. Ask around or ask them straight up when you see them - you can say this is what happened with my previous therapist and I want to make sure I'm not wasting more of my time. Be confident in yourself. You don't owe any religious proselytizer your life.
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Converting Ex-Muslims to Christianity
     Reply #9 - January 29, 2015, 11:27 PM
    Swapping Islam for Christianity or vice versa is like swapping Aids for Cancer.
  • Converting Ex-Muslims to Christianity
     Reply #10 - January 29, 2015, 11:41 PM
    Quote from: justperusing on January 29, 2015, 09:00 PM
    Sounds like you need a new psychologist.

     well the way ElToro explained the problems  of Islam to his psychologist., That lady Muslim psychologist  will need psychotherapy in the next few months..
     
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Converting Ex-Muslims to Christianity
     Reply #11 - January 29, 2015, 11:47 PM
    Thanks guys for the suggestions. I'll definitely look for a new one. 
  • Converting Ex-Muslims to Christianity
     Reply #12 - January 30, 2015, 12:44 AM
    Nail her to a cross while you're reporting her for misconduct.
  • Converting Ex-Muslims to Christianity
     Reply #13 - January 30, 2015, 12:59 AM
    For spreading mischief in the land (5:33)
    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Converting Ex-Muslims to Christianity
     Reply #14 - January 30, 2015, 01:01 AM
    Quote from: Kodanshi on January 30, 2015, 12:44 AM
    Nail her to a cross while you're reporting her for misconduct.


    That's in pretty poor taste
    "I moreover believe that any religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system."
    -Thomas Paine
  • Converting Ex-Muslims to Christianity
     Reply #15 - January 30, 2015, 08:01 AM
    Extremely unprofessional on her part. You are disclosing extremely personal information and in a venerable state and she tries to push her religion on you. I'd definitely recommend a new psychologist.
  • Converting Ex-Muslims to Christianity
     Reply #16 - January 30, 2015, 11:14 AM
    Quote from: Cornflower on January 29, 2015, 09:21 PM
    That is fucked up. If a psycho............

    well she not only has fucked up brain but being Psycho she is screwing her patients brain.  And  she is also a perfect candidate for Islam, She will be   a very good Muslimah..  Jokes aside ElToro's Q & A session has a very important point that has to be discussed and need to be  clarified to help the faith heads to get over this invisible man in the sky that looks after all the past, present and future   story of Human race.....

    Quote from: ElToro on January 29, 2015, 08:41 PM
    Hi,
    .................................
     
    She: "Well, if you don't have a god,  you are not safe from the evil. And there is no meaning of life. Everything is limited to the life here on earth."
    ................


    that point  leads to many age old philosophical questions and need to be addressed ..

    Who is a good person and how to be a good person without  following the  1000 year old  mambo-jumbo stories from religious books that are described by some  cave dwellers?


    What is the meaning of life? What's it all about? Who are we?
    Why are we here? what is the purpose?
    What is the reason to live? What are we living for?
    How to make meaning for human life?


    So we can have many of such Questions.. well I wonder some of you could throw some answers for such questions..  

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Converting Ex-Muslims to Christianity
     Reply #17 - January 30, 2015, 03:42 PM
    Quote from: serpentofeden on January 29, 2015, 11:27 PM
    Swapping Islam for Christianity or vice versa is like swapping Aids for Cancer.

    100% agree.
  • Converting Ex-Muslims to Christianity
     Reply #18 - January 30, 2015, 10:15 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on January 30, 2015, 11:14 AM
    that point  leads to many age old philosophical questions and need to be addressed ..


    The point "not safe from evil" implies that Atheist would get evil. An old preconception. But if you look at the statics where most of the Atheist people live, which is mainly in North Europe - Scandinavia you see that the crime rates are much lower than in "religious countries". I heard that in France, for example, 9 % of the population are Muslims. But if you look at the prisons 80 % of the prisoners are Muslims. Also if you look at South America you see that the people there care much more about religion than people in Europe. Still they have a high crime rate.
    Another example are American prisons, where only about 2% of the prisoners are Atheist. I forgot where I got this statistics from, but if I remember, I can add the source.     
  • Converting Ex-Muslims to Christianity
     Reply #19 - January 30, 2015, 10:30 PM
    Worth to add to the above: About 2/3 of France's Muslims say they aren't religious. But they become that in the prison system. And radicalised. Lack of sense of belonging seems to play a huge role. and the Islamists provide such a "brotherhood".
    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Converting Ex-Muslims to Christianity
     Reply #20 - January 30, 2015, 11:34 PM
    I think multiculturalism has meant that European countries have a reduced sense of self. This reduced sense of self, plus isolationism of communities fuels people identifying with the 'brotherhood' of Islam as there is not another identity that is strong and confident for people to identify with. The view of people being an inherent part of particular communities and not individuals does not help either; the larger body of people expect all Pakistani Europeans to be Muslim, and when they are not they have issues/are shocked. They see it as a betrayal of self as it is viewed you cannot choose your culture. The fact that all cultures are pushed as being equal in value also stifles debate as it shuts down discussion both within and between perceived community groups. 
  • Converting Ex-Muslims to Christianity
     Reply #21 - April 23, 2015, 05:37 PM
    Hmmm I don't think being atheist or religious is related to crime...may be in some cases

    if you looked at communist countries who have a lots of atheists..they have high rate of crimes, like China..very unsafe

  • Converting Ex-Muslims to Christianity
     Reply #22 - April 23, 2015, 05:54 PM
    Quote from: HeavenlySea on April 23, 2015, 05:37 PM
    if you looked at communist countries who have a lots of atheists..they have high rate of crimes, like China..very unsafe


    Do you have an statistics to back up your statement:

    "communist countries who have a lots of atheists... have high rate of crimes"

    Are their crime rates higher than countries with lots of religious people?

    Genuine question as I don't know. Its just that when I see people make such claim, I like to see hard evidence.

  • Converting Ex-Muslims to Christianity
     Reply #23 - April 23, 2015, 06:11 PM
    Quote from: ElToro on January 29, 2015, 08:41 PM
    Hi,

    I experienced something today, which some of you have also experienced.

    Well, I had an appointment at a psychologist today. I told her about my problems with Islam and that I became an Atheist.
    She asked me what specific problems I had with Islam and the Quran.

    I replied:
    - the fact that humans in Islam are seen as slaves of gods. Their only right to exists is to serve god. That's the meaning of life.
    - the fact that disbelievers go to hell + the fact that hell exits, where humans are tortured infinitely
    - the fact that Mo. committed genocide.
    - the fact that Mo. had several wife's and was explicitly allowed to have more than 4 wife's.
    - the fact that Mo. had sex with the 9 year old Aisha.
    - the fact that you are allowed to have sex with slaves. + That you are allowed to have slaves
    - the fact that woman are unequal to man
    - The Quran doesn't sound like the words of a superior being, but more like the words of a man living in the 7th century in a desert.   
    - That there is no proof of god. If he wants me to worship him then at least he should talk to me, or send me very clear evidences. Something like the Quran written on a big wall huge as a mountain.

    Anyways, she said she admires my questions and that I look for the meaning of life.
    But then she asked if I could imagine a god, who more cares about humans and who loves them.
    Me: "Yes, maybe. But he doesn't talk to us, and there is so much pain in the world, that I don't think that there is such a god."
    She: "What would you do if there is a god."
    Me: "Well, if it's the god in the Quran we would have a huge problem."
    She: "YOU would have a problem."
    Me: "YOU, TOO. The entire humanity would have a huge problem."
    She: "Yes, you're right. But I don't think that the god of Islam is the right one. You should pray that god should show himself to you."
    Me: "I don't think that would help. I don't believe in a god."
    She: "Well, if you don't have a god you don't your not safe from the evil. And there is no meaning of life. Everything is limited to the life here on earth."
    Me: "I don't think that I'll get evil, without a god."
    She: "I don't want to convert you, but you should read from the gospel."

    Well, then the session was over. That's just the short version. She repeatably said that she doesn't want to convert me, but...


    That's something I also experienced on some Anti-Islamic websites. They agree that Islam is human-made and then try to convince you to join Christianity.

    Quote from: ElToro on January 29, 2015, 10:01 PM
    I guess in Germany it would be the same if I report it. That's why she said that she doesn't want to convert me, but secretly she the exactly that. But I'm not going to report it.
    It would be my word against hers. She would probably say that I misunderstood her.


    I think there's a weight of evidence process. One person complains and it's one person's word against the other. Lots of people complain and there's something to take notice of.

    Complain.
  • Converting Ex-Muslims to Christianity
     Reply #24 - April 24, 2015, 10:38 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on April 23, 2015, 05:54 PM
    Do you have an statistics to back up your statement:

    "communist countries who have a lots of atheists... have high rate of crimes"

    Are their crime rates higher than countries with lots of religious people?

    Genuine question as I don't know. Its just that when I see people make such claim, I like to see hard evidence.




    I did saw some statsitics back ago about china having a very high crime..but currently I don't have the link

    North Korea also used to have due to poverty, but after they implemented execution law for one who steal..the crime rate has gone down...sorry I couldn't provide link now

    personaly, I have chinese friends who said their country is not safe
  • Converting Ex-Muslims to Christianity
     Reply #25 - April 24, 2015, 10:44 PM
    Hmmm... OK, thanks.
  • Converting Ex-Muslims to Christianity
     Reply #26 - April 24, 2015, 10:56 PM
    Quote from: HeavenlySea on April 24, 2015, 10:38 PM
    I did saw some statsitics back ago about china having a very high crime..but currently I don't have the link

    North Korea also used to have due to poverty, but after they implemented execution law for one who steal..the crime rate has gone down...sorry I couldn't provide link now

    personaly, I have chinese friends who said their country is not safe

    "but after they implemented execution law for one who steal the crime rate has gone down"

    Hmm.. that sounds good to me....

    hello HeavenlySea .. Yes..yes we should execute rascals for stealing a loaf of bread ., that is how we can put down the crime rate..   but., I am not sure you understand the definition of crime dear HeavenlySea .,

    And please don't through me in to Sea... I don't like too much salt on my body before I get fried in god's hell....
    "
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Converting Ex-Muslims to Christianity
     Reply #27 - April 24, 2015, 11:41 PM
    Well it would be an impossible task to create statistic on world crime rates, a lot go unreported, depending on where you live and how corrupt the police and legal systems are.
  • Converting Ex-Muslims to Christianity
     Reply #28 - April 25, 2015, 01:44 AM
    The idea that atheist countries have a higher crime rate seems a little dubious to me. The UK has a lot more atheists than other countries in Europe but is a reasonably safe place and quite similar to other European countries with a lot more religious people. The common factor here is that European countries generally have effective governments and functional rule of law. Countries with high crime rates tend to be ones with disfunctional governments, more corruption and ineffective rule of law. Religion doesn't really come into it.

    Here are some stats (murder rate by country). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

    and here is the crime index: http://www.numbeo.com/crime/rankings_by_country.jsp

    You'll note that China is pretty safe - I don't know where this idea that it has a lot of crime comes from. I've been there and didn't feel especially anxious - people going there as tourists from Australia don't seem to report any particular problems.
  • Converting Ex-Muslims to Christianity
     Reply #29 - April 25, 2015, 12:42 PM
    China has an effective government but this has it's drawbacks.. While people point out the low crime rate they often forget the draconian punishments for acts which are rights in other nations like freedom of speech and protests. The same could be said of KSA, low crime rate but few think it is a beacon of human rights with laws against atheists or even blogging about Islam. Each nations has factors which need to be evaluated beyond basic crime rate results.
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