Allah has entrusted the women

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- ElToro
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Allah has entrusted the women
OP - February 16, 2015, 10:22 PM

You might have the news I have posted about the killed women in Turkey:
http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=28238.0

Now, I just saw a post of Nuri Sahin (a famous Turkish football player) on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/nurisahinofficial/photos/a.490583534343824.1073741825.116158458453002/783629638372544/?type=1&theater

It quotes a Hadit: "Allah has entrusted you the women".

I think even if it sounds nice at first place, it lowers the value of women before men. As if they couldn't take care of themselves. What you think about this Hadit?
- PhysMath
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Allah has entrusted the women
Reply #1 - February 16, 2015, 10:27 PM

Well I think we are bitter and tend to assume the worst in everything. Taking some level of objectivity, we can understand that women at the time did indeed have some "well defined" roles so to say "women have been entrusted upon men" (paraphrased) is in fact considered a high honour. In today's day and age, such a notion is less applicable but in some parts of the world it still is.

One only acquires wisdom when one sets the heart and mind open to new ideas.

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- cosmicdancer
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Allah has entrusted the women
Reply #2 - February 16, 2015, 10:34 PM

God is old school.
- ElToro
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Allah has entrusted the women
Reply #3 - February 16, 2015, 10:37 PM

Yeah, you might be right. It's not the worst hadith.

However, I wouldn't underestimate the role of women before Islam. If you think about Mo. first wife. She was a rich and successful businesswomen, who married a man much younger than her age. And she was the one, who proposed to Mo.

Can you imagine something as this in Saudi Arabia nowadays? That a women successfully manages her business, and then propose to a man much younger to her age?
- PhysMath
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Reply #4 - February 16, 2015, 11:05 PM

Agreed. "Modern" KSA is a hugely misogynistic and patriachal state. It is even considered unislamic.

One only acquires wisdom when one sets the heart and mind open to new ideas.

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- yeezevee
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Allah has entrusted the women
Reply #5 - February 17, 2015, 12:26 AM

ElToro starts a thread with " Allah has entrusted the women" and puts out some links

Link-1 says : Turkey: 20 year old women murdered after attempted rape

Link-2 links a post from Nuri Sahin guy's face book page which Quotes in turkish "Allah has entrusted you the women".

Hello ElToro., unless you quote original hadith., I have to say here That CEMB thread and that face book post both are nothing to do with that hadith .

So ball is in your court...

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- ElToro
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Allah has entrusted the women
Reply #6 - February 17, 2015, 12:56 AM

Hi yeezevee,

if you know better then help me and post the original hadith. The translation is probably wrong, but I'm not a native English speaker. I do my best.

For me, it's not about the exact quote of the hadith. The hadith was in Turkish and I gave a translation of it.
It's more about the status of women in Islam. That's also why I posted the first link. In Turkey there is a huge discussion on this topic. Religious people claim that this wouldn't happen, if the people were more religious. Secular people say that it's because of religion, that degrades women, that this happened.

I wanted to know what, especially women in this forum, think about the hadith.
Is it like PhysMath said that I'm just to bitter about Islam, that I see everything so negative? Or women agree with my opinion that it underestimates the value of women, if you say that they are entrusted upon men.
- ElToro
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Allah has entrusted the women
Reply #7 - February 17, 2015, 01:00 AM

Quote from: yeezevee on February 17, 2015, 12:26 AM
ElToro starts a thread with " Allah has entrusted the women" and puts out some links

Wow, shame on him.
- PhysMath
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Allah has entrusted the women
Reply #8 - February 17, 2015, 01:03 AM

Narrated by Muslim, 1218.

It was narrated that Jaabir said: The Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “Fear Allaah with regard to women, for you have taken them as a trust from Allaah, and intimacy with them has become permissible to you by the word of Allaah. Your rights over them are that they should not allow anyone whom you dislike to sit on your furniture. If they do that, then hit them, but in a manner that does not cause injury or leave a mark. Their rights over you are that you should provide for them and clothe them in a reasonable manner.”

Perhaps this is the Hadith you were referring to?

One only acquires wisdom when one sets the heart and mind open to new ideas.

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- yeezevee
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Allah has entrusted the women
Reply #9 - February 17, 2015, 01:14 AM

Quote from: ElToro on February 17, 2015, 01:00 AM
Wow, shame on him.

Yap.... If I was Caliph you would have been ENTRUSTED TO JAIL UNTIL YOU REPENTED and become a trusted Momn

Well let me add those hadith that deals with "Woman entrusted to men"

Quote
Sahih Muslim 3309:

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine. She further said: We went to Medina and I had an attack of fever for a month, and my hair had come down to the earlobes. Umm Ruman (my mother) came to me and I was at that time on a swing along with my playmates. She called me loudly and I went to her and I did not know what she had wanted of me. She took hold of my hand and took me to the door, and I was saying: Ha, ha (as if I was gasping), until the agitation of my heart was over. She took me to a house, where had gathered the women of the Ansar. They all blessed me and wished me good luck and said: May you have share in good. She (my mother) entrusted me to them. They washed my head and embellished me and nothing frightened me. Allah's Messenger (, may peace be upon him) came there in the morning, and I was entrusted to him.

Sahih Muslim.3328: Anas (Allah be pleased with him) reported: I was sitting behind Abu Talha on the Day of Khaibar and my feet touched the foot of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), and we came (to the people of Khaibar) when the sun had risen and they had driven out their cattle, and had themselves come out with their axes, large baskets and hatchets, and they said: (Here come) Muhammad and the army. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Khaibar is ruined. Verily when we get down in the valley of a people, evil is the morning of the warned ones (al-Qur'an, xxxvii. 177). Allah, the Majestic and the Glorious, defeated them (the inhabitants of Khaibar), and there fell to the lot of Dihya a beautiful girl, and Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) got her in exchange of seven heads, and then entrusted her to Umm Sulaim so that she might embellish her and prepare her (for marriage) with him. He (the narrator) said: He had been under the impression that he had said that so that she might spend her period of 'Iddah in her (Umm Sulaim's) house. (The woman) was Safiyya daughter of Huyayy. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) arranged the wedding feast consisting of dates, cheese, and refined butter, and pits were dug and tiers were set in them dining cloths, and there was brought cheese and refined butter, and these were placed there. And the people ate to their fill, and they said: We do not know whether he (the Holy Prophet) had married her (as a free woman), or as a slave woman. They said: If he (the Holy Prophet) would make her wear the veil, then she would be a (free married) woman, and if he would not make her wear the veil, then she should be a slave woman. When he intended to ride, he made her wear the veil and she sat on the hind part of the camel; so they came to know that he had married her. As they approached Medina, Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) drove (his ride) quickly and so we did. 'Adba' (the name of Allah's Apostle's camel) stumbled and Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) fell down and she (Radrat Safiyya: also fell down. He (the Holy Prophet) stood up and covered her. woman looked towards her and said: May Allah keep away the Jewess! He (the narrator) said: I said: Aba Hamza, did Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) really fall down? He said: Yes, by Allah, he in fact fell down. Anas said: I also saw the wedding feast of Zainab, and he (the Holy Prophet) served bread and meat to the people, and made them eat to their heart's content, and he (the Holy Prophet) sent me to call people, and as he was free (from the ceremony) he stood up and I followed him. Two persons were left and they were busy in talking and did not get out (of the apartment). He (the Holy Prophet) then proceeded towards (the apartments of) his wives. He greeted with as-Salamu 'alaikum to every one of them and said: Members of the household, how are you? They said: Messenger of Allah, we are in good state 'How do you find your family? He would say: In good state. When he was free from (this work of exchanging greetings) he came back, and I also came back along with him. And as he reached the door, (he found) that the two men were still busy in talking. And when they saw him having returned, they stood up and went out; and by Allah! I do not know whether I had informed him, or there was a revelation to him (to the affect) that they had gone. He (the Holy Prophet) then came back and I also returned along with him, and as he put his step on the threshold of his door he hung a curtain between me and him, and (it was on this occasion) that Allah revealed this verse: (" O you who believe), do not enter the houses of the Prophet unless permission is given to 'you" (xxxiii. 53).

Sahih Muslim.3328: 'Abdullah b. Buraida reported on the authority of his father that Ma'iz b. Malik al-Aslami came to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said: Allah's Messenger, I have wronged myself; I have committed adultery and I earnestly desire that you should purify me. He turned him away. On the following day, he (Ma'iz) again came to him and said: Allah's Messenger, I have committed adultery. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) turned him away for the second time, and sent him to his people saying: Do you know if there is anything wrong with his mind. They denied of any such thing in him and said: We do not know him but as a wise good man among us, so far as we can judge. He (Ma'iz) came for the third time, and he (the Holy Prophet) sent him as he had done before. He asked about him and they informed him that there was nothing wrong with him or with his mind. When it was the fourth time, a ditch was dug for him and he (the Holy Prophet) pronounced judg- ment about him and he wis stoned. He (the narrator) said: There came to him (the Holy Prophet) a woman from Ghamid and said: Allah's Messenger, I have committed adultery, so purify me. He (the Holy Prophet) turned her away. On the following day she said: Allah's Messenger, Why do you turn me away? Perhaps, you turn me away as you turned away Ma'iz. By Allah, I have become pregnant. He said: Well, if you insist upon it, then go away until you give birth to (the child). When she was delivered she came with the child (wrapped) in a rag and said: Here is the child whom I have given birth to. He said: Go away and suckle him until you wean him. When she had weaned him, she came to him (the Holy Prophet) with the child who was holding a piece of bread in his hand. She said: Allah's Apostle, here is he as I have weaned him and he eats food. He (the Holy Prophet) entrusted the child to one of the Muslims and then pronounced punishment. And she was put in a ditch up to her chest and he commanded people and they stoned her. Khalid b Walid came forward with a stone which he flung at her head and there spurted blood on the face of Khalid and so he abused her. Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) heard his (Khalid's) curse that he had huried upon her. Thereupon he (the Holy Prophet) said: Khalid, be gentle. By Him in Whose Hand is my life, she has made such a repentance that even if a wrongful tax-collector were to repent, he would have been forgiven. Then giving command regarding her, he prayed over her and she was buried.

Now it is for you to deal with those words dear ElToro ...............

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- three
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Allah has entrusted the women
Reply #10 - February 17, 2015, 01:27 AM

Quote from: ElToro on February 16, 2015, 10:22 PM
You might have the news I have posted about the killed women in Turkey:
http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=28238.0

Now, I just saw a post of Nuri Sahin (a famous Turkish football player) on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/nurisahinofficial/photos/a.490583534343824.1073741825.116158458453002/783629638372544/?type=1&theater

It quotes a Hadit: "Allah has entrusted you the women".

I think even if it sounds nice at first place, it lowers the value of women before men. As if they couldn't take care of themselves. What you think about this Hadit?

It is in Surah an Nisa, where it formally states that men are the maintainers of women. The same surah where they tell you how to beat your women. So yes. Islam insists on this. I think it creates more problems than it solves.

Don't let Hitler have the street.
- ElToro
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Allah has entrusted the women
Reply #11 - February 17, 2015, 01:29 AM

Quote from: PhysMath on February 17, 2015, 01:03 AM
Narrated by Muslim, 1218.

It was narrated that Jaabir said: The Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “Fear Allaah with regard to women, for you have taken them as a trust from Allaah, and intimacy with them has become permissible to you by the word of Allaah. Your rights over them are that they should not allow anyone whom you dislike to sit on your furniture. If they do that, then hit them, but in a manner that does not cause injury or leave a mark. Their rights over you are that you should provide for them and clothe them in a reasonable manner.”

Perhaps this is the Hadith you were referring to?

Thanks PhysMath I think that's the hole hadith. I see your point now yeezevee. If you read the entire Hadith it's pretty much obvious what God thinks about women.
- ElToro
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Allah has entrusted the women
Reply #12 - February 17, 2015, 01:30 AM

Quote from: three on February 17, 2015, 01:27 AM
It is in Surah an Nisa, where it formally states that men are the maintainers of women. The same surah where they tell you how to beat your women. So yes. Islam insists on this. I think it creates more problems than it solves.

Agree. It definitely causes more problems than it solves.
- ElToro
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Allah has entrusted the women
Reply #13 - February 17, 2015, 01:36 AM

This is typical for Turkish Muslims. They see their religion very positive. Just pick the good parts out of it and leave the rest. On the one hand it's good. On the other hand they never see what the real Islam teaches you.
- PhysMath
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Allah has entrusted the women
Reply #14 - February 17, 2015, 01:49 AM

Quote from: ElToro on February 17, 2015, 01:29 AM
Thanks PhysMath I think that's the hole hadith. I see your point now yeezevee. If you read the entire Hadith it's pretty much obvious what God thinks about women.

No worries! It definitely is absolutely disgusting to expect a woman just to submit to a man and not vice versa. Depends upon arbitrarily defined roles for men and women which perhaps made sense then but a vast majority of cases nullify it. A book for all time, a teaching for all time? Hmm... Not really.

One only acquires wisdom when one sets the heart and mind open to new ideas.

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- yeezevee
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Allah has entrusted the women
Reply #15 - February 17, 2015, 01:52 AM

Quote from: ElToro on February 17, 2015, 01:36 AM
This is typical for Turkish Muslims. They see their religion very positive. Just pick the good parts out of it and leave the rest. On the one hand it's good. On the other hand they never see what the real Islam teaches you.

Any rational Turk who reads this man who was killed by brutal rogues of Islam will realize the +ve and negative things in Islam .

Even if Chickens and Turkeys could read his words they will bury the Islam under the ocean between Turkey and Cyprus

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- kephas
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Allah has entrusted the women
Reply #16 - February 17, 2015, 04:51 AM

If I'm not mistaken the quote came from the so called "farewell sermon". Many varieties of the sermon also contain the statement by mo saying that women are like prisoners to their men.

"we stand firm calling to allah all the time,
we let them know - bang! bang! - coz it's dawah time!"
- Cornflower
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Allah has entrusted the women
Reply #17 - February 17, 2015, 07:17 AM

Quote from: ElToro on February 16, 2015, 10:37 PM
Yeah, you might be right. It's not the worst hadith.

However, I wouldn't underestimate the role of women before Islam. If you think about Mo. first wife. She was a rich and successful businesswomen, who married a man much younger than her age. And she was the one, who proposed to Mo.

Can you imagine something as this in Saudi Arabia nowadays? That a women successfully manages her business, and then propose to a man much younger to her age?

Yeah, but she wasn't a product of Islam and she never actually lived under Islamic rule. She married Mo before his little psychosis incident up on mount Hira, and died long before they migrated to Madinah and all hell broke lose. If anything, Khadijah was the product of a society complete opposite of what Mo desired and strived for. The anti-thesis if you so will.

"The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
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