closet ex-muslim since new year 2015

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- cosmicdancer
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Reply #30 - June 03, 2015, 08:35 AM

That is very true gal and I do have personal experience of that too
- hatoush
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Reply #31 - June 03, 2015, 08:55 AM

Quote from: ex-sunni on June 03, 2015, 08:29 AM
Also thank you Hatoush for welcoming me. Well yes the idea is stupid, but it's in the Quran, and the Quran says that you cannot change the Quran. And the Quran is an undeniable fact for almost every muslim.

Islam is a personal experience, some Muslims ( ok probably a minority now) consider the Quran a human product, and by consequence fallible, it is up to you to decide what is right or wrong, and you can keep your Muslim identity if you wish so.

for Fuck sake all religions evolve, why not Islam !!!!!!!!
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Reply #32 - June 03, 2015, 08:57 AM

Quote from: galfromusa on June 03, 2015, 08:31 AM

don't mind me, ex-sunni, I'm just dealing with some shit right now I'll be better soon. But in the meantime, I'm being angry and snarky. But seriously, there are a lot of people in this world who you don't need to have in your life, and getting them out will make you happier.

I agree with you. For a long time my best friend was the imam. Now I'm trying to distantiate myself from him. The thing I tried is pointing out that the word that he spread is a lot different then what's inside the books of his sheikh. But he tries to say that he actually meant something else. It's amazing to see how he can make such weak arguments look strong with his charisma. I think that the next thing I'm gonna do is tell him straight in the face that he's a liar and that I don't want to see him again. I'll probably get a lot of shit from my surroundings for that. But at least I can prove my point.
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Reply #33 - June 03, 2015, 09:02 AM

Quote from: hatoush on June 03, 2015, 08:55 AM
Islam is a personal experience, some Muslims ( ok probably a minority now) consider the Quran a human product, and by consequence fallible, it is up to you to decide what is right or wrong, and you can keep your Muslim identity if you wish so.

for Fuck sake all religions evolve, why not Islam !!!!!!!!

I'm an agnostic atheist and I dislike religions. But I still love Islam as a culture. With this I mean that I like Ramadhan, mosques, nasheeds, quranic recitation, friday prayers, Eid and all that stuff. I heard that atheist muslim is a thing, I could be that. But I do not accept Islam as a religion.
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Reply #34 - June 03, 2015, 09:24 AM

Quote from: hatoush on June 03, 2015, 08:55 AM
for Fuck sake all religions evolve, why not Islam !!!!!!!!

Going on greatest hits.
- yeezevee
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Reply #35 - June 19, 2015, 02:46 PM

Quote from: hatoush on June 03, 2015, 08:55 AM
....for Fuck sake all religions evolve, why not Islam !!!!!!!! ??

I want some one to answer that question.... to start with hatoush should try to answer it . ..but ..but.. ex-sunni says

Quote from: ex-sunni on June 03, 2015, 09:02 AM
..............But I do not accept Islam as a religion..............

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- ex-sunni
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Reply #36 - June 28, 2015, 07:16 AM

Yes Yeez that sentence indeed looks confusing. I wanted to edit it but I don't see an edit button.
What I meant is this: I reject Islam, while I retain its cultural elements, like enjoying eids and sometimes friday prayers, iftars, etc.

I hope this is a bit more clear.
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Reply #37 - June 28, 2015, 02:41 PM

Quote
I reject Islam, while I retain its cultural elements, like enjoying eids and sometimes friday prayers, iftars, etc. ... ex-sunni

That is Perfect Sunni... Sunni in the sense NOT AS SUNNI MUSLIM or sunni ex-Mulsim but as in "Sun.. the light.. enlightened" . "whatever may be the religion people must have freedom in religions., to choose whatever religion they like, to do whatever they want to do in their reliions, WITHOUT TAX PAYERS MONEY, WITHOUT TAXING OTHERS and without forcing others, without harming others and ...and that includes their own kith and kin and their family members....."

So this is interesting about Cairo University

all those pics are about Hijabi female students at Cairo University which reflects the rise of Islamism.

1959: None
1978: None
1995: 35%
2004: 90%

and that is what Tarek Fatah ‏tweeted

Hmmm that is a funny Pig and cute piglets..

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- curiousarabgirl
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Reply #38 - June 28, 2015, 08:56 PM

Hi Ex-Sunni!

I think you really need to find a friend to confide in. I totally understand that you can never come at to your family, and you might think pretending forever is doable, but it's really tough. I would tell them that I'm a Quranist if I were you. I'm in a similar situation and that's what I'm starting to do.

Don't marry a practicing Muslim because that is a recipe for a disaster, just marry a super secular "moderate" Muslim. Plenty of those to go around.
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Reply #39 - June 28, 2015, 10:58 PM

Quote from: curiousarabgirl on June 28, 2015, 08:56 PM

Don't marry a practicing Muslim because that is a recipe for a disaster, just marry a super secular "moderate" Muslim. Plenty of those to go around.

That doesn't mean it won't be a disaster. My [estranged] husband is a "Quran only" "moderate" Muslim who is ok with stuff like homosexuality, transgender people, etc.; and super liberal when it comes to stuff like socialized medicine, redistribution of wealth, public transportation and infrastructure spending, education...but he still thinks that apostates should be threatened, if not killed, at least some of the time. He told me that he feels personally responsible for making sure that I don't become an apostate, as my husband, and has suggested that he might use force to ensure that. But then at other times, he seems almost conciliatory, asking if I still don't eat pork, and how do I feel about (insert random Islam-related issue) now. But then I wonder if he's not just saying that to get me to lower my guard and admit apostasy. So yeah I don't think that just because someone describes themselves as a moderate means they won't threaten you for apostasy, especially if they're related to you.

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
- curiousarabgirl
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Reply #40 - June 29, 2015, 02:40 AM

"He told me that he feels personally responsible for making sure that I don't become an apostate, as my husband, and has suggested that he might use force to ensure that."

I hope you keep him estranged! You are right that moderate Muslims might not be ok with an ex-Muslim spouse, I should have clarified that by "moderate" I meant Muslims in name only. I know tons of those and I know they could care less about practicing Islam or establishing Muslim households. At the same time they aren't bothered enough to consider leaving Islam. These are the types of people I think closeted ex-Muslims should marry.
- curiousarabgirl
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Reply #41 - June 29, 2015, 02:48 AM

Although one caveat is that these types of Muslims In Name Only tend to be Arab. It is easy to be Arab and be a pseudo Muslim, mostly I think because Islamic culture is somewhat ingrained in Arabic culture.
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Reply #42 - June 29, 2015, 09:31 AM

Quote from: curiousarabgirl on June 29, 2015, 02:40 AM
I know tons of those and I know they could care less about practicing Islam or establishing Muslim households. At the same time they aren't bothered enough to consider leaving Islam. These are the types of people I think closeted ex-Muslims should marry.

They might not care about it now, but that's no guarantee that they won't care once they get married/have children. And if they start caring then, it's going to be fucktons harder to get out than it would be to simply not get into it. Especially if you're somewhere partially theocratic, and you can't keep your kids because the spouse outs you as an apostate; or if your family or their family threatens you over your apostasy and starts acting as if they own you, your body, your sexuality, your right to have opinions, etc.

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
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Reply #43 - June 29, 2015, 12:53 PM

Quote from: galfromusa on June 28, 2015, 10:58 PM
That doesn't mean it won't be a disaster. My [estranged] husband is a "Quran only" "moderate" Muslim who is ok with stuff like homosexuality, transgender people, etc.; and super liberal when it comes to stuff like socialized medicine, redistribution of wealth, public transportation and infrastructure spending, education...but he still thinks that apostates should be threatened, if not killed, at least some of the time. He told me that he feels personally responsible for making sure that I don't become an apostate, as my husband, and has suggested that he might use force to ensure that. But then at other times, he seems almost conciliatory, asking if I still don't eat pork, and how do I feel about (insert random Islam-related issue) now. But then I wonder if he's not just saying that to get me to lower my guard and admit apostasy. So yeah I don't think that just because someone describes themselves as a moderate means they won't threaten you for apostasy, especially if they're related to you.

Quran-only and ok with homosexuality yet believes in death for apostasy....wierd.Are you sure about your estranged husband?
- Homo Novus
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Reply #44 - June 29, 2015, 09:37 PM

Quote from: yeezevee on June 28, 2015, 02:41 PM
That is Perfect Sunni... Sunni in the sense NOT AS SUNNI MUSLIM or sunni ex-Mulsim but as in "Sun.. the light.. enlightened" . "whatever may be the religion people must have freedom in religions., to choose whatever religion they like, to do whatever they want to do in their reliions, WITHOUT TAX PAYERS MONEY, WITHOUT TAXING OTHERS and without forcing others, without harming others and ...and that includes their own kith and kin and their family members....."

So this is interesting about Cairo University

(Clicky for piccy!)
(Clicky for piccy!)
(Clicky for piccy!)
(Clicky for piccy!)

all those pics are about Hijabi female students at Cairo University which reflects the rise of Islamism.

1959: None
1978: None
1995: 35%
2004: 90%

and that is what Tarek Fatah ‏tweeted

(Clicky for piccy!)

Hmmm that is a funny Pig and cute piglets..

The Cairo University pictures made me cringe, is islam spreading that fast?
- Skywalker
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Reply #45 - June 29, 2015, 10:12 PM

I think it has more to do with information about Islam spreading. Moreover everyone of those women 1959 had probably undergone female genital mutalitation.
- gal_from_usa
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Reply #46 - June 30, 2015, 07:43 AM

Quote from: Skywalker on June 29, 2015, 12:53 PM
Quran-only and ok with homosexuality yet believes in death for apostasy....wierd.Are you sure about your estranged husband?

Basically, he's ok with everything as long as HE'S the one doing it. Is he getting drunk? That's fine. Is he gambling? That's fine. Is he getting it up the bum? That's fine. Am *I* questioning Islam? That's not fine.

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
- curiousarabgirl
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Reply #47 - June 30, 2015, 07:55 AM

Basically, he's ok with everything as long as HE'S the one doing it. Is he getting drunk? That's fine. Is he gambling? That's fine. Is he getting it up the bum? That's fine. Am *I* questioning Islam? That's not fine.

Haha, he sounds pretty typical. I would get rid of him if I were you.
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Reply #48 - June 30, 2015, 01:28 PM

Quote from: Hassan on March 02, 2015, 10:14 PM
Hi ex-sunni

I'm glad you told us you are ex-sunni because we have two separate forums here - one for ex-sunnis and one for ex-shia.

We here - on the ex-Sunni forum - are real ex-Muslims because we left TRUE Islam - unlike the ex-Shia who only left FALSE Islam.

Welcome

So me never being a believer of any shade am what species of kuffir precisely, how many levels of truthiness am I down?

Spiders who ate flies come to mind!

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

A.A. Milne,

"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
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Reply #49 - June 30, 2015, 01:39 PM

Quote
I also had that feeling that in the next generation muslims will be more free.

What is so strange is how different things were only a few decades ago, and also depending where you are on this mortal coil.

http://www.ikbis.com/shots/78949

Quote
The short skirt was not really worn by many women until 1966 [when Mary Quant introduced short mini dresses and skirts that were set 6 or 7 inches above the knee] and not nationwide until 1967. The mini skirts reached their hayday in the year 1970. At that time,they were worn worldwide by the vast majority of women ,even in many Islamic, Arab, and Middle Eastern countries.In the Middle East ,women wore mini skirts as their daily apparel. From Kabul in Afghanistan to Iran and Bahrain in the Persian Gulf,Egypt,the Levant,North Africa,etc, mini skirts were the trend and it was generally acceptable for many women to wear them, even in the most religious and conservative families and societies.Among women who wore the mini skirts,were most school and university students , teachers and university staff members ,house wives,working classes,employees in governmental institutions,doctors and nurses in hospitals ,etc.This might be surprising to newer generations who never expected mini skirts to have been, at one point in time [1966-1975], so common in the Middle East.Many of younger generations were really astonished,when I happened to show them old photos of their grandmothers,aunts and other older relatives [above 50 ] wearing mini skirts through out their youth .The quick decline of the mini skirt in the middle East began from late 1975,and was virtually non existent by 1977

See photos at link, watch out for music!

I wonder what your parents and grandparents actually did?

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

A.A. Milne,

"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
- moi
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Reply #50 - June 30, 2015, 01:44 PM

And I don't why this hasn't been posted!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

A.A. Milne,

"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
- moi
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Reply #51 - June 30, 2015, 01:52 PM

Quote from: Skywalker on June 29, 2015, 10:12 PM
I think it has more to do with information about Islam spreading. Moreover everyone of those women 1959 had probably undergone female genital mutalitation.

I don't know if that is true of upper class children going to university in Egypt in the time of Nasser - the highest rates are 95%, logically the exceptions would be wealthy and westernised.

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

A.A. Milne,

"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
- ex-sunni
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Reply #52 - June 30, 2015, 05:59 PM

Quote from: moi on June 30, 2015, 01:39 PM
What is so strange is how different things were only a few decades ago, and also depending where you are on this mortal coil.

http://www.ikbis.com/shots/78949

See photos at link, watch out for music!

I wonder what your parents and grandparents actually did?

Well I've seen the pictures of my parents and grandparents, and I'm quite sure that wearing such haram stuff was taboo, especially at my mother's side. They didn't have proper hijab tough, the frou-frou came out of the hijabs. Now they have proper hijab
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Reply #53 - June 30, 2015, 06:13 PM

Quote from: curiousarabgirl on June 28, 2015, 08:56 PM
Hi Ex-Sunni!

I think you really need to find a friend to confide in. I totally understand that you can never come at to your family, and you might think pretending forever is doable, but it's really tough. I would tell them that I'm a Quranist if I were you. I'm in a similar situation and that's what I'm starting to do.

Don't marry a practicing Muslim because that is a recipe for a disaster, just marry a super secular "moderate" Muslim. Plenty of those to go around.

Hi curiousarabgirl.
I didn't like quranists when I was a muslim, I still don't like them because of their dishonesty. I don't plan on calling myself like that. Also it wouldn't work since I thought my sister and mother to call people that do not accept the sunni sources of islam (hadith, tafseer, fiqh books, 4 imams, etc), ahl-i bidah. And ahl-i bidah is bad. But I hope that I can somehow tell my parents that I'm not a muslim anymore. Maybe when I move out. But then I think that this could affect the health of my mother badly, could she become depressed? She will think that all her efforts until today are lost. What could the consequences of that be? I don't know..
I also don't like the plan of marrying a muslim. Maybe I could change my mind in the future, but now I just want to find an irreligious person that has a culture that's close to mine.

I do have a friend that I trust to whom I can tell my stories. It's hard for me to find more friends since I'm an introvert person. But I'll try.

Thanks for the advice
- ex-sunni
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Reply #54 - September 01, 2016, 10:09 PM

More than a year later and a lot of stuff has changed, I made new friends, and later on told them that I'm an atheist. I went on an internship in another country for almost 3 months. There I told my friends that I'm actually an atheist and that I'm being careful to whom I'm telling this, they were not surprised.
And we had a lot of fun there, drank a lot, smoked weed, partied, etc. Stuff I can't do now, because I'm back home.

But yeah, now I'm being more open, I'm telling every new friend I make that I'm not a Muslim if the conversation gets to that point, as long as they're not a Muslim. I also joined a humanistic atheist group here.
Besides that, I'm doing more stuff now that I wouldn't do openly. They're small steps to becoming "less religious". Smoking hookah, skipping some prayers, stopped with going to weekly Islamic gatherings (this is the heaviest one which I did recently, I wonder how it'll work out), going out with non-Muslims, ...
My mom's getting very upset about these things, and a few days ago she saw a dream where I stopped praying 5 times a day, she asked me if I really stopped, I said no, that's just a silly dream. She sounded very worried and it really hurts me to lie to her like this.

And something very bad happened more than a month ago. My parents were in Turkey during the failed coup attempt. They've been affected by it a lot. Especially my mother. My family on the side of my mother is split in two. The ones supporting Erdogan, and the ones supporting Gülen. My mother is reporting the Gulenists to the police in Turkey and last week she quarreled heavily with her own cousins. This is truly fucked up. She tells me about her quarrel with her cousin and asks me "Am I not right?". In my head I'm quite mad at her for fucking up our family ties, I had the biggest urge to shout at her, I just said nothing, she got quite upset.

So yeah, the Führer in Turkey is making stuff harder for me now. I'm getting sick of hearing nonsense about Gulenists every day. This is my hardest point in my life until now.
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