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 Topic: The Big Questions debate on apostates

 (Read 28756 times)
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  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     OP - March 15, 2015, 03:04 PM
    The Big Questions broadcast the following programme this morning:

    The middle 20 minutes is on the topic:
    Do British Muslims have a problem with apostates?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b05n1lww/the-big-questions-series-8-episode-10
    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #1 - March 15, 2015, 03:28 PM
    Amal is a very brave woman. Kudos.

    She sounds rather nervous. No doubt we all would be. I hope she is safe and well.

    Does anyone else ahve to keep pausing the show just so that they can go out of the room in frustration as to how conniving and slippering those two *** ****** are when avoiding the questions.

    They are apologists for the hardliners!

    Usamah is sweet but still misguided. Muhammad a 'mercy for mankind'? Yeah right.
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #2 - March 15, 2015, 04:31 PM
    The Big Questions is purposefully laid out to make you seethe. The pick a lot of crazies on purpose because it makes good telly. One of the reason I generally avoid it now. Well that, and the fact that they have stupid questions like 'Do angel exist?' or 'Did aliens lead our religions?'....  wacko
    ~My story~
    ~Collection of unethical hadiths/surahs~
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #3 - March 15, 2015, 04:35 PM
    Don't get me wrong...I LOVE the Big Questions and we need the crazies exposed....
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #4 - March 15, 2015, 04:57 PM
    Here's a link for those who don't have access to iPlayer:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOOYR1_1Zzw

    The guy wearing the black headcap is disingenuous as fuck. I like this Usama Hasan guy though.
    "Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well."
    - Robert Louis Stevenson
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #5 - March 15, 2015, 05:19 PM
    ^ Thank you!
    turnipovich
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #6 - March 15, 2015, 05:22 PM
    Although the accusations of being 'slippery' were justified, and although he was stamping his feet pretty heavily, I didnt think black cap guy (Abdullah Al Andalusi) was as annoying as Mohammed Shafiq.

    my favourite part was when Amal was asked by somebody in the audience, where in the quran does it not say apostates should be killed.
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #7 - March 15, 2015, 05:30 PM
    http://abdullahalandalusi.com/2015/03/15/my-review-of-the-bbc-big-questions-topic-do-british-muslims-have-problems-with-apostates/

    Quote from: Black cap guy
    They gave the discussion to an Ex-Muslim ‘Amal’, whom was given the lions share of time to attack Islam and Muslims, and ample time afterwards – so much so, it almost became the ‘Amal Show’


    Wouldn't this mean that Andalusi does think Amal should be killed. She hasn't merely left the religion. She is also 'attacking' it? Does this count as 'treason', or whatever he thinks deserves death?

    'The Amal Show' sounds like a good show anyway. I'd watch it.
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #8 - March 15, 2015, 05:35 PM
    Quote from: dr_sloth on March 15, 2015, 05:30 PM
    Wouldn't this mean that Andalusi does think Amal should be killed. She hasn't merely left the religion. She is also 'attacking' it? Does this count as 'treason', or whatever he thinks deserves death?

    There isn't an ideal "Islamic state" for Amal to be spreading sedition against, so no.
    "Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well."
    - Robert Louis Stevenson
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #9 - March 15, 2015, 07:02 PM
    It's absolutely rich when a Muslim continuously tries to play the victim card in front of an ex-Muslim.
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #10 - March 15, 2015, 07:27 PM
    I was offended when he said that Maajid Nawaz invented the ''In an ideal Islamic state...'' question. I think I was the first one to use the term. ^_^
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #11 - March 15, 2015, 07:34 PM
    Dw, I invented Maajids "Voldemort Effect".
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #12 - March 15, 2015, 07:42 PM
    As I suspected, Maajid was in Hizbu Tahrir when he was at the age he should've started reading the books. I have a hard time believing a member of Hizbu Tahrir would read books which glorify witchcraft and wizardry. Are we to believe that Maajid read children books as an adult non islamist? I think not.
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #13 - March 15, 2015, 08:32 PM
    I notice a trend of Muslim apologists avoiding the difficult questions.......
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #14 - March 15, 2015, 08:33 PM
    Guy @12:00 or so snapping at people to let him finish uninterrupted. Roll Eyes He was grunting and groaning the whole time the first lady was speaking. How does anyone watch this?
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #15 - March 15, 2015, 09:29 PM
    About half way through watching it. Couldn't help thinking this is why people believe muslims practice taqiyya.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #16 - March 15, 2015, 10:07 PM
    It's a shame that Amal mentioned Taqqiyah. I liked the fact that nicky Campbell  kept on pushing Al Andalusia.
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #17 - March 15, 2015, 10:20 PM
    The dissembling in their answers is all too telling. Mostly due to how badly they dissemble which makes the exercise pointless.
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #18 - March 15, 2015, 10:38 PM
    Quote from: Jedi on March 15, 2015, 10:07 PM
    It's a shame that Amal mentioned Taqqiyah. I liked the fact that nicky Campbell  kept on pushing Al Andalusia.

    It is definitely unfortunate, however these apologists were being terribly shifty.
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #19 - March 15, 2015, 10:58 PM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on March 15, 2015, 09:29 PM
    About half way through watching it. Couldn't help thinking this is why people believe muslims practice taqiyya.


    Well it is kind of sub-conscious taqiyya!

    "I know what you are asking makes sense and I know the answer is YES, but if I say that the answer is yes then you won't like it and will react against it and hurt my feelings cause you will think Islam is not the soft snuggly bear veneer I am trying to display it as. I want to display it as this so I get sympathy and it gets a free ride and I can defend it by the by, by accusing you of Islamaphobia if you quote a weeded out verse of the qu'ran which I might or might not agree with but won't admit that either."
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #20 - March 15, 2015, 11:01 PM
    Well when I saw her retweet a tweet on taqiyya...she lost some credibility...which she regained by not backing down in the debate. It means that being an exmuslim doesn't guarantee you from error on Islam. No doubt Andalusi is a doublespeaker.

    When anyone uses the word taqiyyah, my radars go up. Ive even seen an expert on counterterrorism use it infront of serious Washington people.
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #21 - March 15, 2015, 11:02 PM
    This was really hard for me to watch. It was like half the excuses I have heard, coalesced into a few minutes with faces on them. I have a super low tension threshold, so that was excruciating to get through, I kept blocking it out. I did not miss too much, I don't think.
    My thanks to the show, CEMB, and all our supporters for bringing it to light. I appreciate your efforts.  
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #22 - March 15, 2015, 11:04 PM
    Most Muslims understand the apostasy punishment to mean leaving Islam, and not active political treason against the islamic state, so although Andalusi may genuinely have a different interpretation, it doesn't reflect the understanding of most Muslims.
    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #23 - March 15, 2015, 11:04 PM
    Quote from: Descent on March 15, 2015, 10:38 PM
    It is definitely unfortunate, however these apologists were being terribly shifty.


    Just to clarify it wasn't a criticism at all and is understand it within the context of the debate in which the two Muslim apologists were obfuscating their answers with mindless gibberish. Amal was awesome.
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #24 - March 15, 2015, 11:08 PM
    Quote from: ateapotist on March 15, 2015, 11:04 PM
    Most Muslims understand the apostasy punishment to mean leaving Islam, and not active political treason against the islamic state, so although Andalusi may genuinely have a different interpretation, it doesn't reflect the understanding of most Muslims.


    Even then he would've been aware of what apostasy means. To renounce islam is to go against the state since Allah is the sovereign ergo you're going against the head of state. That's why he tried to get around it by saying 'my interpretation is...'
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #25 - March 15, 2015, 11:09 PM
    Kate Smurthwaite was great!  I liked her point that killing someone for changing their religion is never okay. Not now, and not 1400 years ago. The West African Muslim guy was trying to make excuses for the Hadith "whoever leaves his religion kill him?"
    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #26 - March 15, 2015, 11:11 PM
    What ever happened to Muhammad only acting in a way that was supposed to be applicable in all places at all times? Islam is replete with contradictions and this is reflected in the Muslim mind.
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #27 - March 15, 2015, 11:13 PM
    Quote from: Jedi on March 15, 2015, 11:08 PM
    Even then he would've been aware of what apostasy means. To renounce islam is to go against the state since Allah is the sovereign ergo you're going against the head of state. That's why he tried to get around it by saying 'my interpretation is...'

    True that.  It's still very easy to justify the death penalty.
    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #28 - March 15, 2015, 11:40 PM
    Andalusi wasn't doing taqqiyyah, but he was definitely double speaking. The reason may be different for different individuals.Some islamists may not want to be embarrased on televison. One common reason is the legal trick that I posted a poll on a few weeks ago http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=28313.0;viewResults
  • The Big Questions debate on apostates
     Reply #29 - March 16, 2015, 12:01 AM
    Usamah Hassan is a scientist and was once imam of Leyton Mosque until he urged worshippers in his congregation to grasp reality and accept evolution and he got chased out by an angry mob. So he has first hand experience of religious attitudes to those who deviate from scripture.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/mar/06/usama-hasan-london-imam-death-threats-evolution

    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
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