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 Topic: This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed

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  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     OP - March 20, 2015, 12:50 AM
    This is from an Islamic website that I sometimes go to:

    Original question
    Quote
    I have no love for my husband
    I been married to my husband for 3 years i also been forced marriage.

    I told my parents i didn't want to be married but they took me and got me married by lying to me. I was in pakistan for two years then came to usa america. Since day one of my wedding i hated my husband. things didnt feel right we been fighting since then till this day.


    More from the OP

    Quote
    I tried nd trued my parents thinks its jadoo a black magic because so many ppl asked for my hand since im an american citizen and they want there son to come to America or either i have
    Nazaar on me Evil Eyes.


    Quote
    Things are not Getting better for me
    this past week we had three fights
    and he actually hit me and he calls me names now


    Quote
    Lastnight I got hit by my Husband my hand and arms and legs
    Are blue like colorish everything is falling apart
    I'm actually at the stage of killing myself


    This is the advice she gets:

    Quote
    hey, i would just like to say having a baby will solve everything as i know someone who got married at the age of 18 to her cousin brother she hated him but still loved him he used to beat her up everyday , t once she came off the pill it took her ages to have a baby and when she did both husband and wife loved their baby daughter so much that their hatred turned into love


    Quote
    wow i feel really bad for your husband


    Quote
    These last 10 days of Ramadan please pray salah and give as much dua as possible. Ask Allah to forgive all of your sins and beg him to give you Jannah. Do not forget to cry to Him about your problems and keep Him in your heart. It seems like you are in agony but please hold on.


    Quote
    I am sorry but my comment may come off as negative ... But I pity your husband. You have made this about you selfishly . He is a human as well; his anger at you is justifiable as a result of your own hate.


    Quote
    As already mentioned, your husband eventually snapped and I'm not condoning violence but your disrespectful treatment and hatred fuelled this


    I'm so disturbed and baffled by this. Also no one really brings up the abuse. Are there real Muslims who think like this?
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #1 - March 20, 2015, 01:21 AM
    Which website is this? Maybe we could try and say something to her?
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #2 - March 20, 2015, 01:32 AM
    Quote from: YinYang on March 20, 2015, 12:50 AM
    This is from an Islamic website that I sometimes go to:
    ...................

    I'm so disturbed and baffled by this. Also no one really brings up the abuse. Are there real Muslims who think like this?


     Are there real Muslims who think like that ?

    hello YinYang welcome to den and greetings and my good wishes to you., So you are Non-Muslim and you want to find the answer to that question...  well answer is Yes..yes..  That is the answer from Zebra...

    but but don't you think quite often Non-Muslims also think the same as Muslim on that subject of arranged marriage newly wed problems??
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #3 - March 20, 2015, 01:39 AM
    Quote from: YinYang on March 20, 2015, 12:50 AM
    This is from an Islamic website that I sometimes go to:

    Original question
    More from the OP

    This is the advice she gets:

    I'm so disturbed and baffled by this. Also no one really brings up the abuse. Are there real Muslims who think like this?


    Yes, they do think like this, and it is not just Muslims. It is cultural thing, especially in those cultures where men are treated more like kings than like people. Why would anyone mention the abuse, it is not out of the ordinary in many cultures. What is out of the ordinary is that a woman is bad mouthing her husband and criticizing him to absolute strangers. That is why she is getting all the hostility. Women are supposed to suffer in silence.
    I was taught to do whatever my husband said. To submit to Allah, and then to my husband. Some crap about angels cursing me and blah blah hellfire punishments and men are the maintainers of women.
    She is talking to the wrong people. I hope we get the site, because I can refer her to the ONLY forced marriage advocacy group in the USA, and this abuse is actually her reason for asylum. She doesn't need her husband. She has resources in the US.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #4 - March 20, 2015, 01:39 AM
    Quote from: asbie on March 20, 2015, 01:21 AM
    Which website is this? Maybe we could try and say something to her?

    so asbie wants web link on that .. here you go asbie..

    http://www.zawaj.com/askbilqis/no-love-for-my-husband/
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #5 - March 20, 2015, 01:46 AM
    Quote from: yeezevee on March 20, 2015, 01:32 AM
    Are there real Muslims who think like that ?

    hello YinYang welcome to den and greetings and my good wishes to you., So you are Non-Muslim and you want to find the answer to that question...  well answer is Yes..yes..  That is the answer from Zebra...

    but but don't you think quite often Non-Muslims also think the same as Muslim on that subject of arranged marriage newly wed problems??


    No I am a Muslim by birth. I just never came into contact with beliefs like this before.
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #6 - March 20, 2015, 04:15 AM
    Quote from: three on March 20, 2015, 01:39 AM
    Yes, they do think like this, and it is not just Muslims. It is cultural thing, especially in those cultures where men are treated more like kings than like people. Why would anyone mention the abuse, it is not out of the ordinary in many cultures. What is out of the ordinary is that a woman is bad mouthing her husband and criticizing him to absolute strangers. That is why she is getting all the hostility. Women are supposed to suffer in silence.
    I was taught to do whatever my husband said. To submit to Allah, and then to my husband. Some crap about angels cursing me and blah blah hellfire punishments and men are the maintainers of women.
    She is talking to the wrong people. I hope we get the site, because I can refer her to the ONLY forced marriage advocacy group in the USA, and this abuse is actually her reason for asylum. She doesn't need her husband. She has resources in the US.

    That is s true three. A woman on the site actually accused her of backbiting against her husband.  Huh?

    It really upset me to read this  Cry. I don't understand how Muslim women come to terms with such ingrained sexism and lack of practical help offered to them in their culture.

    It's one of the few things that made me turn away from Islam.
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #7 - March 20, 2015, 06:02 AM
    Yes this is cultural and YES this is the result of certain beliefs in Islam. I could give you hadeeth on this and examples from fatawas where you see these attitudes shine through, but I'm on my phone so maybe later Tongue
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #8 - March 20, 2015, 06:29 AM
    .
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #9 - March 20, 2015, 08:36 AM
    The thing is that the hierarchy established between husband and wife sets the scene from the get-go. You have a good relationship with your husband as long as your husband is a good person with a good character, irregardless of his beliefs or how devout and "saalih" he is. No religion can redeem a shitty personality, the bad characteristics always find a way to manifest themselves. If then the religion itself gives leeway for the man to do whatever he pleases, there's not much hope.

    If you have narrations that talk about how the wife is eternally in debt to her husband so much that she would perform sujood to him if it was permissible, or that she would never be able to repay him even if his entire body was covered in puss and she licked it up, then there is no way a wife can do anything to make her husband any less worthy of her praise and semi-worship. You have narrations that explicitly says that there is no better wife than a woman who sits besides her husband and takes his hand, apologizing, saying she will not give up before he has forgiven her and is pleased with her again even if it was him who had committed the wrong.

    The only thing a wife has the right to, that is an actual right that you practically can establish, is to maintenance in accordance with her husbands abilities, and that is under the condition that she obeys his every command that does not directly go against the shariah. He can keep her as a prisoner in her own house, make her do whatever he desires, and she must reply "haadir ya sayyidee".

    The whole "deserving of good treatment" and "take care of your women" rhetoric is highly deceptive and in the end meaningless. A husband is legally allowed to prohibit his wife to go outside, to meet her parents, to have any friends, to have any social life whatsoever outside the home, she isn't even allowed to let in her own father or mother if they come to visit if the husband has said no. She must follow his every command because that is his right, without any conditions I might add. You come across now and then fatawas that state that even if he doesn't support her, she must obey him. While if she disobeys him, her right to maintenance is void.

    There are no real repercussions for a husband ill-treating his wife, and to even Islamically define what "ill-treatment" or "good treatment" is problematic since the command is so vague that it ends up falling flat. And even if you admit that the husband is in the wrong, you go back to the guidelines that says that a wife should be forgiving and just accept things.

    I just browsed for like three minutes on a fatwa site and came across a fatwa that seriously suggested the cheated wife to adorn herself and make her more appealing for her husband, while "advising" and "admonishing" him for his adultery, and to even suggest that he takes the mistress as a second wife. Only the last resort was allowing her to separate from her husband, but to make sure that it should only be a "threat" and not a realistic goal.
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #10 - March 20, 2015, 08:48 AM
    Repost the above, appropriately edited, on that site!

    One of the wonderful things about the internet is that different viewpoints are available!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPZuWzZvoYQ
    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #11 - March 20, 2015, 08:51 AM
    Hey man, what do you mean with appropriately edited Grin
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #12 - March 20, 2015, 09:10 AM
    So it reads as part of the conversation on that forum!
    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #13 - March 20, 2015, 09:17 AM
    Maybe not!  It is an old thread!
    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #14 - March 21, 2015, 12:34 AM
    ugh.....I feel sorry for the lady asking for advice. :( All that advice sucks.
    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #15 - March 21, 2015, 12:39 AM
    Quote from: yeezevee on March 20, 2015, 01:39 AM
    so asbie wants web link on that .. here you go asbie..

    http://www.zawaj.com/askbilqis/no-love-for-my-husband/


    Well, that began a while ago. She doesn't want out anymore.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #16 - March 21, 2015, 12:40 AM
    Quote from: YinYang on March 20, 2015, 04:15 AM
    That is s true three. A woman on the site actually accused her of backbiting against her husband.  Huh?

    It really upset me to read this  Cry. I don't understand how Muslim women come to terms with such ingrained sexism and lack of practical help offered to them in their culture.

    It's one of the few things that made me turn away from Islam.


    You don't come to terms with it. Women are born to suffer. I have been told that a thousand times. You just deal with it or you die. To be fair, misogyny is intrinsic to other cultures and religions, too. There are also Muslim cultures that are not so bad with the misogyny, it is still there, but I have heard there are some places where women have human rights. Muslim women in the West often have no idea how good they have it.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #17 - March 21, 2015, 01:21 AM
    The blatant misogyny found in S. Asian cultures really rankles me. The most meek and docile   Muslim women I have ever seen have come from this part of the world. Add to that the fact that Islam treats women like a necessary evil and you get the attitudes like these. I think women perpetuate these customs because they had to go through the same thing and for them it is a sort of validation of their feelings. A lifetime spent In perpetual service to a husband who treats you like crap will breed anger and resentment, and the easiest target for these feelings is the daughter-in-law.
    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #18 - March 21, 2015, 01:51 AM
    Quote from: three on March 21, 2015, 12:39 AM
    Well, that began a while ago. She doesn't want out anymore.


    Its too bad, she probably wouldn't really be very amenable to much we say anyway.
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #19 - March 21, 2015, 02:32 AM
    I was just going to direct her to the http://www.tahirih.org/  . Because if you are in the US, suffering, need help and haven't got citizenship, they can help you.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #20 - March 21, 2015, 09:50 AM
    The responses she got are typically vile. Those that put their 'god' before the needs of loved ones, is borderline sociopathic as far as I'm concerned. The idiot that suggested a baby will sort it all out, needs shooting.
    Ha Ha.
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #21 - March 21, 2015, 10:35 AM
    Quote from: Jack Torrance on March 21, 2015, 09:50 AM
    The responses she got are typically vile. Those that put their 'god' before the needs of loved ones, is borderline sociopathic as far as I'm concerned. The idiot that suggested a baby will sort it all out, needs shooting.

      sociopathic ??  ...........  Sociopaths??

    Jack ...Jack.. You are too polite.. No..Nah..  such fools are ...PATHETIC PSYCHOPATHS...  .,

    well I will change the shooting of such fools  to BUTT KICKING .. insulting .... need help from  their  friend or psychologist. If they refuse help I will tell their near and dear to keep a watch on them.
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #22 - March 21, 2015, 10:45 AM
    Quote from: YinYang on March 20, 2015, 01:46 AM
    No I am a Muslim by birth. I just never came into contact with beliefs like this before.

    well you are way out of Islamic mindset.  I am one of those guys who believes "Muslim by birth" "Christian by birth" ., Jew By birth, Hindu by birth,  Buddhist by birth ....and. (and each of those have another 10 to 100 offshoot  sects) " is absolute nonsense. By birth what you get attached to is grandma festivals, and grandma rituals. But on the way if you get brain washed by parents and the society around you then yes ., ... such kids get attached to their parent religion..

    Anyways your OP suggest that   for all practical purposes you are open minded and  you have no staunch  religious views..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #23 - March 23, 2015, 06:46 AM
    Quote from: Nour on March 21, 2015, 01:21 AM
    The blatant misogyny found in S. Asian cultures really rankles me. The most meek and docile   Muslim women I have ever seen have come from this part of the world. Add to that the fact that Islam treats women like a necessary evil and you get the attitudes like these. I think women perpetuate these customs because they had to go through the same thing and for them it is a sort of validation of their feelings. A lifetime spent In perpetual service to a husband who treats you like crap will breed anger and resentment, and the easiest target for these feelings is the daughter-in-law.


    It's the same in China. A lot better in cosmopolitan cities on the east coast (which are the most "westernized", heh), but in the rural area it is brutal. The suicide rate for women in rural areas are a few times higher, if I remember correctly. A lot of them just cannot deal with the abuse and have no way to save themselves.
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #24 - March 23, 2015, 09:48 AM
    Quote from: three on March 21, 2015, 02:32 AM
    I was just going to direct her to the http://www.tahirih.org/  . Because if you are in the US, suffering, need help and haven't got citizenship, they can help you.


    On second thought you should post it anyway, both for if she changes her mind, and for any others in a similar situation who stumble across it.

    Edit: Actually it looks like its not her, but her husband who is an immigrant. So she can go to normal resources for abuse/domestic violence.
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #25 - March 23, 2015, 05:44 PM
    wow... that`s disgusting

    Although I have seen it happen, women in horrendous marriages with twats feeling forced to stay due to religeon or cultural pressure.

    I think the twat who gave that advice deserves a beating himself! It annoys me, your suppose to protect women (according to islam) not treat like them crap!
    "the question is" said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be the master- that`s all."
    Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking- Glass.
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #26 - March 23, 2015, 05:49 PM
    BBC News item just now about extremism includes an independent review of sharia law in UK.  I wasn't clear if how this has been presented by the Home Secretary is meant to join up the dots - that sharia is extremist.
    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #27 - March 23, 2015, 06:47 PM
    Quote from: YinYang on March 20, 2015, 12:50 AM
    I'm so disturbed and baffled by this. Also no one really brings up the abuse. Are there real Muslims who think like this?


    It's fucking disgusting but I'm not surprised. To be clear, this is not just a Muslim problem. The practice of forced marriage persists in many societies but most prevalent in African and South Asian communities. When forced marriage or other forms of honor violence is the norm among certain cultural and religious communities, it's difficult to seek the right advice and support.
    Quote from: asbie on March 23, 2015, 09:48 AM
    Edit: Actually it looks like its not her, but her husband who is an immigrant. So she can go to normal resources for abuse/domestic violence.

    I'm glad she's in America, however it's still difficult to find resources that are catered to victims of HBV in America. Honor violence is not yet considered to be a form of violence. Cases are ignored by government agencies and/or victims are forcibly referred to their communities for assistance, especially when it comes to cases of forced marriage or domestic violence. Professionals choose to ignore HBV victims because they fear to be branded as racists for intervening, therefore they're denied access to protection and services. Since this woman is married and was physically abused by her husband, she's eligible for most domestic violence resources in her state but it's best for her to be in touch with organizations like Tahirih.
    turnipovich
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #28 - March 23, 2015, 08:50 PM
    Quote
    The AHA Foundation is the leading organization working to end honor violence that shames, hurts or kills thousands of women and girls in the U.S. each year, and puts millions more at risk.


    http://www.theahafoundation.org
    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • This Muslim marriage advice has me really distressed
     Reply #29 - March 24, 2015, 02:28 AM
    Quote from: asbie on March 23, 2015, 09:48 AM
    On second thought you should post it anyway, both for if she changes her mind, and for any others in a similar situation who stumble across it.

    Edit: Actually it looks like its not her, but her husband who is an immigrant. So she can go to normal resources for abuse/domestic violence.


    Some women are not comfortable going to Western resources. When you have been living piously, Western DV shelters are shocking. Tahirah offers a more familiar support, even if they refer you to a local resource. It is a more effective first stop for Muslimahs, I would say. Especially if English is not your first language. There are also not many places here that understand honor motivated violence.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
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