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 Topic: The Quran - Muhammad's fallible memory

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  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • The Quran - Muhammad's fallible memory
     OP - March 25, 2015, 02:28 PM
    I've used some falsification criteria defined within the Quran itself to falsify the Quran.  I am not sure what I am going to do with this yet, but please do let me have any feedback/criticism/counter arguments.

    https://www.scribd.com/doc/259937311/The-Quran-Muhammad-s-fallible-memory

    Although this is a public forum, please don't post it elsewhere until I've finished this review process.
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • The Quran - Muhammad's fallible memory
     Reply #1 - March 25, 2015, 05:12 PM
    It looks very detailed rationalizer.
  • The Quran - Muhammad's fallible memory
     Reply #2 - March 25, 2015, 07:00 PM
    Tabari records the opinion of Ibn Zayd, that such disrepancies are due to Allah wanting to test people.

    Quote
    "Among the mutashabih (things which resemble one another) verses are those which tell the story of Moses in many places of the Qur'an, and those, like them, which employ different words to express similar meanings. Some examples of these are: 'Let into it' and 'Carry in it [the Ark]', (Q. 23:27 and 11:40); 'Slip in your hand' and 'Enter your hand [O Moses into your bosom]', (Q. 28:32 and 27:12); and 'He [Moses] cast down his staff and, behold, it became a snake slithering'  and 'He cast it down and behold, it became an unmistakable serpent', (Q. 20:20 and 7:107). Ibn Zayd then comments, 'All this is in order to show God's judgment between the prophets and their peoples.' Ibn Zayd goes on, 'Anyone whom God wishes to test and cause to fall into error would say, "Why is this not like that, and why is that like this!"' (Tabari, VI, pp. 177-179)" (Mahmoud M. Ayoub, The Qur'an and Its Interpreters, Vol. II - The House of Imran [State University of New York Press, Albany; 1992], p. 23;)
    http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/versions.htm

    "we stand firm calling to allah all the time,
    we let them know - bang! bang! - coz it's dawah time!"
  • The Quran - Muhammad's fallible memory
     Reply #3 - March 25, 2015, 08:02 PM
    Good work!

    @kephas: yes, when you can't explain it, just say it's a test. That's what teacher's do sometimes as well: "you have done a mistake on the board" - "Oh thanks it was just a test if you will notice it".
  • The Quran - Muhammad's fallible memory
     Reply #4 - March 25, 2015, 10:37 PM
    I really don't think that answer refutes my argument in the slightest, but thanks for posting it Smiley
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • The Quran - Muhammad's fallible memory
     Reply #5 - March 26, 2015, 09:31 AM
    I would have a small abstract to bring in the punters, and maybe some spelling mistakes, as a test.



  • The Quran - Muhammad's fallible memory
     Reply #6 - March 26, 2015, 11:37 AM
    Quote from: kephas on March 25, 2015, 07:00 PM
    Tabari records the opinion of Ibn Zayd, that such disrepancies are due to Allah wanting to test people.



    This is an ad hoc defense. The Quran claims we will find no errors, contradictions of/within verses are errors. Tabari contradicts the Quran by putting forward this defense
  • The Quran - Muhammad's fallible memory
     Reply #7 - March 26, 2015, 01:18 PM
    Not to mention it's one of the worst defenses imaginable.  Something has gone seriously haywire when your defense is that God put lots of contradictions into his holy book in order to cause people to ask about them and thereby fall into error.

    It's an admission of guilt, which is papered over by threatening hellfire for thinking critically.
  • The Quran - Muhammad's fallible memory
     Reply #8 - March 27, 2015, 03:22 PM
    Are we looking at objective proof here that the Quran fails the criteria it sets forward to judge it by?
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • The Quran - Muhammad's fallible memory
     Reply #9 - March 27, 2015, 03:31 PM
    Sorry mate not had time to look at it. I'm away for the week.
  • The Quran - Muhammad's fallible memory
     Reply #10 - March 27, 2015, 03:32 PM
    Quote from: TheRationalizer on March 27, 2015, 03:22 PM
    Are we looking at objective proof here that the Quran fails the criteria it sets forward to judge it by?

    hello  TheRationalizer.,   In your view what criteria did Quran set  itself?  without knowing that criteria it is  hard to argue whether it failed in its own criteria or not.   On top of it smart Islamic intellectuals  can argue with you  with that CIRCULAR LOGIC..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • The Quran - Muhammad's fallible memory
     Reply #11 - March 27, 2015, 03:43 PM
    Quote from: TheRationalizer on March 27, 2015, 03:22 PM
    Are we looking at objective proof here that the Quran fails the criteria it sets forward to judge it by?


    I think so. Also we have a notable scholar which acknowledges the errors.
  • The Quran - Muhammad's fallible memory
     Reply #12 - March 27, 2015, 09:41 PM
    I wonder what the lowest-hanging defense would be :

    a. God chooses to disclose minor details at different points , based on the context and flow of the narrative
    b. God isn't obligated to be meticulous Smiley Sometimes he is, sometimes he isn't, can't force our expectations on him Smiley
    c. Show me where God has said "and I quote.." Smiley
  • The Quran - Muhammad's fallible memory
     Reply #13 - March 27, 2015, 10:41 PM
    Context does not provide any rescue for Moses' white hands. Either his hands were placed on his side or breast. It can not be both as this is a straightforward contradict. So A and C are moot. B is just an excuse without merit and contradicts the statement of an error free Quran

    http://corpus.quran.com/wordmorphology.jsp?location=%2820:22:4%29
    http://corpus.quran.com/wordmorphology.jsp?location=%2827:12:4%29
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