Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts


اضواء على الطريق ....... ...
by akay
Yesterday at 01:32 PM

Lights on the way
by akay
Yesterday at 09:01 AM

Qur'anic studies today
by zeca
Yesterday at 08:53 AM

New Britain
November 29, 2024, 08:17 AM

Gaza assault
by zeca
November 27, 2024, 07:13 PM

What music are you listen...
by zeca
November 24, 2024, 06:05 PM

Do humans have needed kno...
November 22, 2024, 06:45 AM

Marcion and the introduct...
by zeca
November 19, 2024, 11:36 PM

Dutch elections
by zeca
November 15, 2024, 10:11 PM

Random Islamic History Po...
by zeca
November 15, 2024, 08:46 PM

AMRIKAAA Land of Free .....
November 07, 2024, 09:56 AM

The origins of Judaism
by zeca
November 02, 2024, 12:56 PM

Theme Changer

 Topic: Isa

 (Read 1378 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Isa
     OP - April 23, 2015, 07:38 PM

    Quote
    Isa Ibn Maryam (Arabic: عيسى بن مريم, translit.: ʿĪsā ibn Maryām; English: Jesus, son of Mary), or Jesus in the New Testament, is considered to be a Messenger of God and al-Masih (the Messiah) in Islam[1][2]:30 who was sent to guide the Children of Israel (banī isrā'īl) with a new scripture, al-Injīl (the Gospel)


    Been reading elsewhere a fascinating argument that "Jesus" is a mistake and the original is IC, who is a holy godman who is mentioned in Genesis and many other places in the Hebrew Bible.

    Ecce Homo - who is this man - is precisely about this.

    It looks to me as if Islam has kept an earlier tradition that mainstream xianity lost by getting stuck on Jesus.

    I propose that Mohammed (praised) is actually another version of this godman.

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Isa
     Reply #1 - May 02, 2015, 04:46 PM

    Could you explain further on this "IC" figure? I've never heard of it before.

    but I do remember that "IC" is a short form for the greek word Jesus. Greeks spell Jesus as IHSOUS XPISTOS, and since the letter sigma can be written as "C" as a lunate sigma, they spell it as IHCOUC XPICTOC, then shortened to "IC XC".

    also, this thread might be relevant to the topic:
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=27825

    "we stand firm calling to allah all the time,
    we let them know - bang! bang! - coz it's dawah time!"
  • Isa
     Reply #2 - May 02, 2015, 05:38 PM

    The argument is that the alleged nomina sacra IC is not an abbreviation of Jesus but actually is a Greek translation of the Hebrew word man, which is found all over the Hebrew Bible.  Islam may actually have fossilised this.

    This man is found in the burning bush, in the first creation story, wrestling and many other places.

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Isa
     Reply #3 - May 03, 2015, 08:57 AM

    Well, a more accurate explanation is probably that it was not originally a godman, but rather another member of a pantheon, because from what we've been able to decipher of earlier Bronze Age Mesopotamian, Canaanite, and Egyption works, most if not all of the stories of Genesis are actually just copied and pasted from other texts, with minor alterations, to give them a uniquely Israelite feel, with Hebrew names and places, exaggerations (to make the god stronger--not only can he do creation, he can also do war! on any terrain! even hills! and valleys! also he can destroy things with magic, and with weather...), and most importantly, forced monotheism. Even when this destroys the original plot line, monotheism is forced onto the texts with no thought for continuity.

    Like the story of the flood. It makes a lot more sense if some gods got angry at the meddling/creations of other gods. When monotheism is forced onto the text, some Nephilim are left in the text and no one knows what the fuck they're supposed to be or what they're doing there, but whatever it was it made the now monotheist god mad that it was ruining his creation somehow even tho he himself did all the creating instead of being one of several gods creating stuff, and he regrets having let himself mess around with making humans. The gods that came to the rescue of mankind and taught them to build boats are removed, and so the same god who made the people and regretted making the people is brought back to teach the humans how to escape the flood he's causing because he's mad at himself over stuff he created himself. See? Ruined the whole plot line.

    Most of Genesis is stuff like that. Which isn't too surprising, considering who wrote it--it was a bunch of scribes trying to gain power, because Cyrus was giving religious leaders of minority religions limited autonomy over their local areas. So these guys cobbled together an "ancient" tome in a hurry and presented it as proof that they were, in fact, representatives of a unique ancient religion and should be granted the limited autonomy status.

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »