Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts


Gaza assault
by zeca
Yesterday at 07:13 PM

What music are you listen...
by zeca
November 24, 2024, 06:05 PM

Lights on the way
by akay
November 22, 2024, 02:51 PM

Do humans have needed kno...
November 22, 2024, 06:45 AM

Qur'anic studies today
by zeca
November 21, 2024, 05:07 PM

New Britain
November 20, 2024, 05:41 PM

اضواء على الطريق ....... ...
by akay
November 20, 2024, 09:02 AM

Marcion and the introduct...
by zeca
November 19, 2024, 11:36 PM

Dutch elections
by zeca
November 15, 2024, 10:11 PM

Random Islamic History Po...
by zeca
November 15, 2024, 08:46 PM

AMRIKAAA Land of Free .....
November 07, 2024, 09:56 AM

The origins of Judaism
by zeca
November 02, 2024, 12:56 PM

Theme Changer

 Topic: Khutbah on Adam & Eve

 (Read 6977 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Khutbah on Adam & Eve
     OP - May 08, 2015, 01:54 PM

    This is the Khutbah I delivered today on Willowbrook Farm. I began by quoting the verses from the Qur'an about Adam and Eve, (which I won't post for the sake of brevity,) then went on to say:

    Muslim scholars down the ages have taught that the story of Adam and Eve literally happened just as described in the Qur'an. That Adam and Eve were real individuals and were the first human beings. Many Muslims use this literal understanding to reject the theory of evolution. But is this story really meant to be taken literally? I believe that to take it literally belittles and diminishes its underlying spiritual lesson and symbolic meaning. It confines it to a simplistic story of two individuals. I believe we should take this story as symbolic of human consciousness. Symbolising the period in human evolution where we became self-aware and able to articulate abstract ideas. A time when our mind had developed the ability to represent concrete phenomena using sounds and ideas. We developed the ability to communicate and organise ourselves on a scale that led to the human revolution. We evolved the abilities that set us aside from the rest of the animal kingdom. It triggered the rapid evolution of the human line of hominids that had until recently been no more significant than similar apes and creatures in the ancient forests and plains of Africa where we eventually set off to conquer the world.

    In short, the story of Adam and Eve is about human evolution. It's about gaining the ability to be self-aware and think in abstract ways, to plan ahead, to visualise possible scenarios and prepare for them. This put us at a huge advantage to other animals who may have had greater strength and natural abilities. For the mind proved to be the most powerful weapon of all.

    Humans became more than just conscious - since most animals are conscious to a certain extent - but we are also self-aware - as the story of how Adam and Eve symbolises when they became aware of their nakedness - something animals to not possess. Self-awareness is not only consciousness of your body and your environment, but it is recognition of that consciousness—not only understanding that you exist but further comprehending that you are aware of your existence. To be self-aware is to realise that you are a thinking being and to think about your thoughts, examine and analyse them. To conceptualise ideas and be motivated and driven by transcendental beliefs and ideals and concepts that can bind and direct humans on a larger scale than just family or family grouping.

    This is what the story of Adam and eve symbolises when it talks of asking the angels to name all the animals and all the things in the physical world yet they are unable - Adam has a special ability that sets him apart.

    When we think about when Adam was in the innocent state in paradise - there were animals in that state too. It was a time before we were self-aware. We were one with nature, with God - just as the animals, trees, flowers mountains and rivers are, in harmony with nature and the world around us.

    But then as the story Adam & Eve progresses humanity begins to enter into a new state of being. Adam and Eve represent the waking conscious mind of mankind. When the conscious and subconscious become distinct, where inner joy and innocence and peace can no longer be maintained because now the ego starts to grow and take control. We become separate from the natural course, we "fall" or we become separated from God. The story represents this as expulsion from the paradise - the symbolic state we were in. It represents our move to a new consciousness. We are now more acutely aware of the pain and hardship of the world around us. Where we struggle to find sense and meaning and ask; Why? Who? What?

    As the story goes on Adam and Eve are tempted by the serpent or Satan which is nothing more than man's own "Ego". The Nasf al Amaara bisoo' ("The self that makes us err" النفس الأمارة بالسوء ), and because the Ego now takes over the driver’s seat of man’s soul, Paradise becomes lost.

    Our new reality is one of constant battle with our Ego. We are thrust into an ongoing struggle to find our place in the world, to seek closeness to a God that is beyond our rational mind, to find that inner peace and joy that our previous state of innocence and closeness to God, gave us, while at the same time mastering the special gifts and position of Khalifa (caretaker) that we have been given, to take care and look after the environment around us.

    Understanding that stories like Adam & Eve are symbolic metaphors for our human journey helps us realise we are all "One Human Race." That although we interpret this journey in different ways depending on our cultures and environments there is nevertheless a thread of unity of our human experience that runs through all religions, beliefs, myths and philosophies. That differences are skin deep and superficial. That petty squabbling and fighting over such differences is senseless and short-sighted. We are like the blind wise-men who each described the elephant based on the only part they had access to, then argued fiercely that the others were wrong. If we can appreciate this, then perhaps we can take another evolutionary leap forward and start to build a better more peaceful and loving world for us all.
  • Khutbah on Adam & Eve
     Reply #1 - May 08, 2015, 02:06 PM

    what khutba, are you an imam ?
  • Khutbah on Adam & Eve
     Reply #2 - May 08, 2015, 02:23 PM

    It's just our family and a couple of close friends on the farm. It's not open to the public. Me and my brother share giving the Khutbah each Friday. Occasionally someone else will give it. Very universalistic and inclusive Khutbah's Smiley
  • Khutbah on Adam & Eve
     Reply #3 - May 08, 2015, 02:23 PM

    This is the Khutbah I delivered today ..................


    ................Understanding that stories like Adam & Eve are symbolic metaphors for our human journey helps us realise we are all "One Human Race." .........................


    Hmmmm... well... This is my Khutbah and  I try to deliver all the time   Cheesy Cheesy

    Quote
    Oh people ...

    The closest living relatives of humans are chimpanzees (genus Pan) and gorillas (genus Gorilla). With the sequencing of both the human and chimpanzee genome, current estimates of similarity between human and chimpanzee DNA sequences range between 95% and 99%. By using the technique called a molecular clock we can estimates the time required for the number of divergent mutations to accumulate between two lineages, the approximate date for the split between lineages can also be calculated

    (Clicky for piccy!)

    Without doubt, modern humans (Homo sapiens primarily ssp. Homo sapiens sapiens) are the only extant members of the hominin clade, a branch of great apes characterized by erect posture and bipedal locomotion, manual dexterity and increased tool use, and a general trend toward larger, more complex brains and societies.  Early hominids, such as the australopithecines whose brains and anatomy are in many ways more similar to non-human apes, are less often thought of or referred to as "human" than hominids of the genus Homo. Some of the latter used fire, occupied much of Eurasia, and gave rise to   anatomically modern Homo sapiens in Africa about 200,000 years ago.

    They began to exhibit evidence of behavioral modernity around 50,000 years ago, and migrated in successive waves to occupy all but the smallest, driest, and coldest lands. In the last 100 years, this has extended to permanently manned bases in Antarctica, on offshore platforms, and orbiting the Earth.[citation needed] The spread of humans and their large and increasing population has had a profound impact on large areas of the environment and millions of native species worldwide. Advantages that explain this evolutionary success include a relatively larger brain with a particularly well-developed neocortex, prefrontal cortex and temporal lobes, which enable high levels of abstract reasoning, language, problem solving, sociality, and culture through social learning. Humans use tools to a much higher degree than any other animal, are the only extant species known to build fires and cook their food, as well as the only extant species to clothe themselves and create and use numerous other technologies and arts
     
    oh my people listen to me and listen well.,

    Humans began to practice sedentary agriculture about 12,000 years ago, domesticating plants and animals, thus allowing for the growth of civilization. Humans subsequently established various forms of government, religion, and culture around the world, unifying people within a region and leading to the development of states and empires. The rapid advancement of scientific and medical understanding in the 19th and 20th centuries led to the development of fuel-driven technologies and improved health, causing the human population to rise exponentially. Fe months ago in  2014,  the global human population was estimated to be around 7.2 billion..

    ................Understanding  our background will help us in our human journey  and make us  realize we are all "One Human Race." .........................


    and ..and   dear hatoush please don't say this to me    what khutba, are you an imam ?

    but you can says this

     what khutba?  , are you a fucking  mullah ?  

    and all of you go read this page http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=8767.570

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Khutbah on Adam & Eve
     Reply #4 - May 08, 2015, 02:25 PM

    WTF, are you somekind of cult leader  lipsrsealed
  • Khutbah on Adam & Eve
     Reply #5 - May 08, 2015, 02:27 PM

    WTF, are you somekind of cult leader  lipsrsealed


     Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy  thank you  hatoush.           ,I spilled my tea  on keyboard...

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Khutbah on Adam & Eve
     Reply #6 - May 08, 2015, 02:28 PM

    lol... no.
  • Khutbah on Adam & Eve
     Reply #7 - May 08, 2015, 02:34 PM

    WTF, are you somekind of cult leader  lipsrsealed


    A Yeezevee cult? ...Yeez, have you thought about this? That might be your calling. Grin

    Depending on your dress code, I might be down with it, but I hate track jackets and I refuse to wear sneakers.
  • Khutbah on Adam & Eve
     Reply #8 - May 08, 2015, 02:50 PM

    I appreciate the sentiment behind this sort of thinking more now than I did even a year ago. I’ve had some really interesting conversations with essentially agnostic Christians and Jews who view their own scriptures in a very similar way.

    That said, I still can’t help but to think of this:

    So, I just want to get this straight and make sure I’m not misrepresenting your beliefs or anything. Here’s what I’ve surmised from your posts so far:

    Billions of years ago, God existed on his own, basking in the glory of his own perfection. We’re not entirely sure where he came from: maybe another universe, maybe he was just always there, chilling. But he was somehow just completely perfect by default.

    Then, one day, he decided he wanted to have a “relationship” with some tiny, insignificant, little organisms on a small rock orbiting a relatively unimpressive star in a backwater corner of one particular galaxy.

    So, he sets conditions up on this speck of a planet perfectly to allow for life to grow and evolve under the pressures of natural selection. This means that countless wonderful and obscure life forms would live and die, only for their respective species to pointlessly go extinct under the pressures of their environments. Only the most suitable 2% will survive.

    This goes on for quite some time as God watches quietly and uninvolved, until eventually, many billions of years later, Homo sapiens emerge from this sequence, perfect, bringing his plan into fruition.

    Again, God remains uninvolved for quite some time, watching as Homo sapiens develop all sorts of primitive beliefs and practices in an attempt to understand the world around them. At some point in this process, the Adam and Eve “metaphor” represents Homo sapiens’ ignorance and diversion from God’s original plan and their own original perfection.

    Fast forward to the Bronze Age and God starts “inspiring” random Middle Eastern guys to write on his behalf, but he’s not too concerned with the accuracy of what they write because it is never meant to be literal anyhow. He will condone and watch over countless acts of war, genocide, animal sacrifice, stonings, executions, and other obscene forms of violence committed in his name, never once coming out clearly against any of it.

    Then, about 2,000 years ago, he decides that he’s had enough of all of the bloodshed and sacrifice, so he’ impregnates a teenager with his son, who is really himself, so that he could kill himself in order to have a relationship with homo sapiens that he initially desired.

     But he didn’t want to make the path to a relationship with him clear, so he obscured it in all sorts of mystery, allegory, and confusion, causing for the emergence of countless schisms and sects all claiming to be “the one true way.”

    Then, to make things even more confusing, he still allowed for all other sorts of “paths” and “religions” to exist that had nothing to do with his son/self suicide ritual, and would be really upset if you happened to believe in one of those other “ways.”

    So, he decided to make our chances at salvation to be contingent mostly on where and to whom we are born.

    If we happen to pick the right way, God will let us into his club free of charge. If we happen to choose the wrong way, he’ll hold us to account for the very nature that he created us with the propensity towards to begin with.


    Sound about right?


  • Khutbah on Adam & Eve
     Reply #9 - May 08, 2015, 02:54 PM

    lol...  Afro

    Though I'm not really saying that. If you read between the lines I'm basically saying these stories are just myths - though there's nothing wrong with myths. We humans have always tried to express ourselves and our the human journey through stories, myths & fairytales, gleaning whatever we find useful from them.

    As for God - I am of course Agnostic, (hence the word Agnostic in Agnostic Muslim Wink )
  • Khutbah on Adam & Eve
     Reply #10 - May 08, 2015, 02:55 PM

    Well, I enjoyed reading that khutbah. Really cool sermon Hassan, it's how I picture the narrative going decades or even centuries from now as it's the only realistic way I can see islam surviving. The metaphorical/poetic route opens whole new doors to theology and spirituality that the fundies don't seem to realise exist. I think we'll be all the better for it. Mind if I ask what the reaction was?

    hatoush, as we're on the topic. happymurtad once called me his sheikh and imam, something which I may have inscribed on my gravestone. Grin As for cults, I did once attempt to write my own version of the ten commandments.

    1. To harm needlessly is blasphemy against the Lord your God.

    2. Judge not on status or wealth but on character.

    3. Blessed are the honourable, the virtuous, the charitable, the open minded, and the merciful.

    4. Whosoever strives to enslave ones fellow man, or force oneself without consent onto another, unless that person is wicked and harming those who cannot defend themselves, blasphemes against the Lord your God.

    5. Honour the Earth and all it's creatures.

    6. When faced with the path of violence or the path of peace, choose the path of peace.

    7. Entrench yourself not in dogma, but strive to think and flourish and improve.

    8. If someone is in need of help and you can offer it, do so.

    9. Non violent expression shall never be met with violence.

    10. If it harms none, do what you will.


    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Khutbah on Adam & Eve
     Reply #11 - May 08, 2015, 02:58 PM

    Mind if I ask what the reaction was?


    They enjoy my Khutbahs Smiley

    Like I say it's just my extended family and close friends on Willowbrook Farm - and they are a very liberal  and open-minded bunch. Smiley
  • Khutbah on Adam & Eve
     Reply #12 - May 08, 2015, 03:04 PM

    I honestly think a lot of people would appreciate your sermons. I remember the first and only Friday prayers I brought my family to, and that was the day they decided to talk about why it was so important to teach your sons and daughters not to have friends with the opposite gender early, and how to protect your modesty in the mixed-gender workplace, and this was about as liberal and accepting of a masjid as I could find in the area.

    Oh, I would've killed for them to hear something as lovely and as intelligent as any of your khutbahs. Or to just hear it for myself!
  • Khutbah on Adam & Eve
     Reply #13 - May 08, 2015, 03:06 PM

    Thanks, Lua  Smiley
  • Khutbah on Adam & Eve
     Reply #14 - May 08, 2015, 03:06 PM

    lol...  Afro

    Though I'm not really saying that. If you read between the lines I'm basically saying these stories are just myths - though there's nothing wrong with myths. We humans have always tried to express ourselves and our the human journey through stories, myths.

    As for God - I am of course Agnostic, (hence the word Agnostic in Agnostic Muslim Wink )



    Oh, I know you weren’t saying that. It’s just what came to mind. Grin
     I honestly have evolved my thought on the issue of scripture over the past year or so. In fact, I feel like we as Muslims (or ex-Muslims) are really lagging behind other faiths who have already progressed leaps and bounds by way of interpreting their scripture through understanding the symbolism behind the stories. I no longer believe it is simply a cop-out to claim that the stories “aren’t literal.” In fact, I think that taking them as literal truth misses the entire point of being told a story in the first place, and loses the power of a narrative to drive a cause.

    And I too am agnostic about both the existence of god and what the nature of such a being might be. I think we as humans would necessarily have no way of grasping it. I’m also pretty hopeful that if it does exist, it is nothing like a literal Allah.
  • Khutbah on Adam & Eve
     Reply #15 - May 08, 2015, 03:09 PM

    Definitely agree with you HM.

    Like I say, humans have always expressed themselves through stories, myths & fairytales, gleaning whatever we find useful in them.

  • Khutbah on Adam & Eve
     Reply #16 - May 08, 2015, 03:12 PM

    Thanks, Lua  Smiley


    Thank you for sharing! They're one of the things on the forum that I save until I have time to sit down and read. If you don't mind, I'll start reading the ones you post here to the husband--I know they'd speak to him.  yes
  • Khutbah on Adam & Eve
     Reply #17 - May 08, 2015, 03:14 PM

    I've got a few saved on my computer and resisted posting them all here as I thought it would bore people - but may start a special thread in the blogs section if people are interested.
  • Khutbah on Adam & Eve
     Reply #18 - May 08, 2015, 03:16 PM

    "Although we interpret this journey in different ways depending on our cultures and environments there is nevertheless a thread of unity of our human experience that runs through all religions, beliefs, myths and philosophies. That differences are skin deep and superficial. That petty squabbling and fighting over such differences is senseless and short-sighted. We are like the blind wise-men who each described the elephant based on the only part they had access to, then argued fiercely that the others were wrong. If we can appreciate this, then perhaps we can take another evolutionary leap forward and start to build a better more peaceful and loving world for us all."

     grin12
  • Khutbah on Adam & Eve
     Reply #19 - May 08, 2015, 03:18 PM

    I've got a few saved on my computer and resisted posting them all here as I thought it would bore people - but may start a special thread in the blogs section if people are interested.


    If you're willing, yes please!
  • Khutbah on Adam & Eve
     Reply #20 - May 08, 2015, 03:21 PM

    I honestly think a lot of people would appreciate your sermons

    I was trying to picture how it would go down with the average British muslim if Hassan ever attempted to spread the gospel, so to speak. I think it'd be met with both resistance and appreciation, but see the latter becoming acceptance and having a more lasting legacy. It must be so frustrating believing that you have to choose between reality and your faith rather than finding a way for both to walk hand in hand. Shame that the only real islamic group doing this over here are the ahmadiyyas, who aren't even considered real muslims.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Khutbah on Adam & Eve
     Reply #21 - May 08, 2015, 03:22 PM

    I've got a few saved on my computer and resisted posting them all here as I thought it would bore people - but may start a special thread in the blogs section if people are interested.

    Yes please. Smiley

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Khutbah on Adam & Eve
     Reply #22 - May 08, 2015, 03:25 PM

    Sure, will do - thanks  Afro
  • Khutbah on Adam & Eve
     Reply #23 - May 08, 2015, 03:30 PM

    I was trying to picture how it would go down with the average British muslim if Hassan ever attempted to spread the gospel, so to speak. I think it'd be met with both resistance and appreciation, but see the latter becoming acceptance and having a more lasting legacy.


    Yes! This. I think the amount of Muslims who would really appreciate attitudes and sermons like this is growing, and, at some point in the future (if I stop eating nothing but coffee and bread maybe I'll live so long to see it), it'll be the majority.
  • Khutbah on Adam & Eve
     Reply #24 - May 08, 2015, 03:43 PM

    Hopefully we won't get a repeat of episodes like Usama Hasan and others getting harassed, kicked out of a mosque and receiving death threats for talking about evolution.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Khutbah on Adam & Eve
     Reply #25 - May 08, 2015, 03:45 PM

    I was trying to picture how it would go down with the average British muslim if Hassan ever attempted to spread the gospel, so to speak. I think it'd be met with both resistance and appreciation, but see the latter becoming acceptance and having a more lasting legacy. It must be so frustrating believing that you have to choose between reality and your faith rather than finding a way for both to walk hand in hand. Shame that the only real islamic group doing this over here are the ahmadiyyas, who aren't even considered real muslims.



    Well, I think Islam is at a crossroads. Your “average” Muslim (I cringe as I type that) may not have had the crisis of faith required to appreciate what Hassan is saying yet. I was just speaking to a very, very close friend of mine – Syrian-American who is otherwise very intelligent and well-educated – who disputes the idea of human evolution. His understanding of religion is somehow remarkably simplistic and traditional. And he seems completely content with that.

    On the other hand, I have my son who, though barely in the double digit age bracket, can explain the evolution of life on earth better than most adults I know. If he continues to identify himself as a Muslim as he grows up, then I can’t imagine him finding the works of most mainstream “scholars” satisfying.

    I won’t speak for everyone, but I think that it is abundantly evident that human beings are a “spiritual” creature. Whether our propensity for belief is simply an evolutionary advantage for our species is honestly beside the point: it is real, just as our sex drive is real whether we personally want children or not. People who are from an Islamic background will, on the whole, continue to have that spiritual need, or that need to connect to a wider community, cause, or purpose. And with the dissemination of knowledge brought through the internet revolution, I think there will be more of a demand for exactly the sort of thought Hassan is sharing here.
  • Khutbah on Adam & Eve
     Reply #26 - May 08, 2015, 03:46 PM

    Hopefully we won't get a repeat of episodes like Usama Hasan and others getting harassed, kicked out of a mosque and receiving death threats for talking about evolution.


    I'm not planning to do this indefinitely btw  - and certainly not outside my family circle.

    Actually the last thing I want is to start another cult lol
  • Khutbah on Adam & Eve
     Reply #27 - May 08, 2015, 03:47 PM

    Tooooo laaaaaateeee  Cheesy
  • Khutbah on Adam & Eve
     Reply #28 - May 08, 2015, 03:50 PM


    I won’t speak for everyone, but I think that it is abundantly evident that human beings are a “spiritual” creature. Whether our propensity for belief is simply an evolutionary advantage for our species is honestly beside the point: it is real, just as our sex drive is real whether we personally want children or not. People who are from an Islamic background will, on the whole, continue to have that spiritual need, or that need to connect to a wider community, cause, or purpose. And with the dissemination of knowledge brought through the internet revolution, I think there will be more of a demand for exactly the sort of thought Hassan is sharing here.



    I agree 100% - and I believe a new generation of  Muslims will take up that challenge.
  • Khutbah on Adam & Eve
     Reply #29 - May 08, 2015, 03:50 PM

    Tooooo laaaaaateeee  Cheesy


    Nooooooooo...  Cheesy
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »