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 Topic: Why are so many exmuslims rightwing ?

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  • Why are so many exmuslims rightwing ?
     OP - May 18, 2015, 12:47 PM
    Having come across dozens of exmuslims in London, from the exmuslims who aren't indifferent/passive to politics the majority seem to be right wing. I'd say about 2/3 are right wing.

    Many of them are neocons/neoliberals who passionately support economic inequality and/or western hegemony. Perhaps because most ex-muslims are middle class and/or have private commercial projects is why they support conservative economics out of personal material gain, self interest and selfishness.

    As someone who is opposed to literal Islam because it divides societies into tiers based on whether they are muslims or dhimmis, I find it bizarre that other ex-muslim would support an alternative system which divides societies into tiers such as Capitalism, with the class system making society unequal based on an individual means of production.

    Then there's also exmuslims who are out-and-out antimuslim bigots. I'd say this figure is much lower, about 10-20% of exmuslims. Maybe because they've had such bad experiences with their muslims friends and families they generalise all muslims. One exmuslim recently said "they should just bomb all the muslims". It's important not to conflate everyday casual muslims with Islamic radicals .

    I would rather befriend a muslim who is for equality all across the board(women rights,gay rights, minority rights, economic equality etc) then an exmuslim who is a mouthpiece for some form of supremacism.
  • Why are so many exmuslims rightwing ?
     Reply #1 - May 18, 2015, 01:52 PM
    Quote from: serpentofeden on May 18, 2015, 12:47 PM
    I would rather befriend a muslim who is for equality all across the board(women rights,gay rights, minority rights, economic equality etc) then an exmuslim who is a mouthpiece for some form of supremacism.

    Ditto.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Why are so many exmuslims rightwing ?
     Reply #2 - May 18, 2015, 02:06 PM
    "Why are so many exmuslims rightwing?"

    Not in my experience. In fact in real life I haven't met one Ex-Muslim I know who is right wing. Most of those I know are left wing in fact. Others just middle of the road.
  • Why are so many exmuslims rightwing ?
     Reply #3 - May 18, 2015, 02:18 PM
    Possibly because they had a right-wing upbringing as Muslims, so when they left Islam they just jumped to the other side in the dichotomous ring-wing, us-vs-them divide, rather than unlearned and deconstructed the entire paradigm. Unlearning narratives we're brought up with is incredibly difficult and a continuous struggle.
  • Why are so many exmuslims rightwing ?
     Reply #4 - May 18, 2015, 02:25 PM
    Quote from: serpentofeden on May 18, 2015, 12:47 PM
    I find it bizarre that other ex-muslim would support an alternative system which divides societies into tiers such as Capitalism


    Why it is so bizarre? I don't see it, really...
  • Why are so many exmuslims rightwing ?
     Reply #5 - May 18, 2015, 02:28 PM
    Quote
    Quote from: serpentofeden on May 18, 2015, 12:47 PM
    ................ .I would rather befriend a muslim who is for equality all across the board(women rights,gay rights, minority rights, economic equality etc) then an exmuslim who is a mouthpiece for some form of supremacism.

    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on May 18, 2015, 01:52 PM
    Ditto.

    Quote from: Hassan on May 18, 2015, 02:06 PM
    "Why are so many exmuslims rightwing?"

    Not in my experience. In fact in real life I haven't met one Ex-Muslim I know who is right wing. Most of those I know are left wing in fact. Others just middle of the road.

    Quote from: Abood on May 18, 2015, 02:18 PM
    Possibly because they had a right-wing upbringing as Muslims,...........


    why don't you guys give some examples of rascals...... right wing ex-Muslims.,  . left wing ex-Muslim. .middle wing ex-Muslim.   middle finger  ex-Muslim  etc..etc.... instead of just grouping people who are in religion or left religions  Islam or otherwise??

     I  support and I am all for Muslims., ex-muslims whatever Muslims whatever religious group they may belong .. AS LONG AS THEY FALL UNDER THE  GROUP OF HUMANISM... and 99% of the time  simple golden rule sets the line  for the person in their words and actions to come under the umberalla of humanism.. .

    Why would any one should care what stupid group ..what stupid religion any one may born in to or belong to if he/she is like the person you see above?? .  
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Why are so many exmuslims rightwing ?
     Reply #6 - May 18, 2015, 04:23 PM
     1). Why do so many ex-muslims adopt right wing politics? Who are your liberal heroes(Fun@Fundies)

    2). Is Religious Right’s Star Ex-Muslim a Serial Liar?

    3). An ex-Muslim’s open letter to America on the dangers of Islam needs to go VIRAL

    4). ERASING EX-MUSLIMS AND MUSLIMS: HOW ATHEISTS HARM US

    5). The lamentations of ‘ex-Muslims’

    6). 7 Ways Westerners Can Help Ex-Muslims

    8 ). Kamal Saleem Still Selling His Fake Ex-Muslim Story

    9). Ergun Mehmet Caner: Another “ex-Terrorist” Exposed

    and..and

    Christian Right's Favorite Ex-Muslim Ayaan Hirsi Ali EXPOSED AS FAKE - Dutch Doc " HOLY Ayaan !!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbxP8Uys8kc
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Why are so many exmuslims rightwing ?
     Reply #7 - May 18, 2015, 04:50 PM
    I think at this point the only ex-Muslim I really know in real life is the husband, and he was extremely conservative when I met him. Now, he's entirely adopted a live-and-let-live theory of life, but sometimes he still needs some reminders on that. He's still getting comfortable with homosexuality and he still has some pretty conservative family views. He never tries to say that it's wrong anymore, and he's come a very, very long way, but you can tell certain things still bother him.

    And I do think that is a lot of what Abood said. It's hard to kind of change the way you've been brought up. Even if you find out Islam isn't for you, you might have been raised to look at certain things a certain way, and that's tough to shake. Even if you're trying!
  • Why are so many exmuslims rightwing ?
     Reply #8 - May 18, 2015, 05:12 PM
    Sometimes I wonder why "conservative" and "traditional values" became synonymous with "prejudiced bigots".
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Why are so many exmuslims rightwing ?
     Reply #9 - May 18, 2015, 06:34 PM
    Well, at least in the states, "traditional family values" is often a clever way of referring to a nuclear family with a strong provider of a father and a mother performing her womanly duties and obedient children who fall into the social norms and they all have good Christian values.

    Nowadays, we're expanding our definition of family to include single parents, same-sex couples, working moms, different religions/lack of religion, different ways of parenting, etc. So usually the people griping about returning to traditional family values aren't just talking about emphasizing a strong sense of family and respect for your relatives, which can be a great thing to reinforce, but returning to the nuclear family model.
  • Why are so many exmuslims rightwing ?
     Reply #10 - May 18, 2015, 06:53 PM
    Nuclear family was a 50's invention, ironically.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Why are so many exmuslims rightwing ?
     Reply #11 - May 18, 2015, 09:24 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on May 18, 2015, 02:06 PM
    "Why are so many exmuslims rightwing?"

    Not in my experience. In fact in real life I haven't met one Ex-Muslim I know who is right wing. Most of those I know are left wing in fact. Others just middle of the road.


    How many Ex-Muslims have you met in real life? How do you know they are Ex-Muslims? People generally don't go around advertising it.
  • Why are so many exmuslims rightwing ?
     Reply #12 - May 18, 2015, 09:31 PM
    I've been to cemb meetings, socials, talks, confrences, demos plus exmuslim meetups in london & birmingham plus met quite a few forum members socially too.

    I would estimate I have met at least 50 Ex-Muslims, probably much more.
  • Why are so many exmuslims rightwing ?
     Reply #13 - May 18, 2015, 10:55 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on May 18, 2015, 02:06 PM
    "Why are so many exmuslims rightwing?"

    Not in my experience. In fact in real life I haven't met one Ex-Muslim I know who is right wing. Most of those I know are left wing in fact. Others just middle of the road.


    Maybe you haven't really delved into politics with them?  Smiley

    Secondly many right wingers say they're centrists around lefties.

    I'm not naming names Hassan, but you recently posted a picture with an exmuzz who I know is right wing who I've heard say he is "capitalist" in person.

    I forgot to say in my first post that I've met some exmuzz who have gone as far right wing as UKIP. One even writes for a UKIP site/blog and gives talks to UKIP audiences where he describes the UKIP audience as "distinguished".

    Maybe exmuzz swerving to the right is as a result of there being a perception that the left are to soft/apologetic on Radical Islam? I think Anne Marie Waters cited that as her reason.
  • Why are so many exmuslims rightwing ?
     Reply #14 - May 18, 2015, 10:58 PM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on May 18, 2015, 05:12 PM
    Sometimes I wonder why "conservative" and "traditional values" became synonymous with "prejudiced bigots".


    maybe because traditional conservative values have given us:

    SLAVERY
    RACISM
    PATRIARCHY
    HOMOPHOBIA
    IMPERIALISM

    Just to add all of the above have been given to us by BOTH Western Empires and Islam in abundance.
  • Why are so many exmuslims rightwing ?
     Reply #15 - May 18, 2015, 11:09 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on May 18, 2015, 02:28 PM

    why don't you guys give some examples of rascals...... right wing ex-Muslims.,  . left wing ex-Muslim. .middle wing ex-Muslim.   middle finger  ex-Muslim  etc..etc.... instead of just grouping people who are in religion or left religions  Islam or otherwise??



    I wasn't referring to celebrities, just regular exmuzz folk I've met.

    But in terms of public exmuslims, Ibn Warraq is a Neo-Con who shares a platform and speaks at events with bigots like Rob Spencer and Pam Geller. The charlatan Ayaan hirsi Ali is neoliberal/neocon and she has got a lot worse since she met Niall Ferguson.
  • Why are so many exmuslims rightwing ?
     Reply #16 - May 18, 2015, 11:10 PM
    Quote from: serpentofeden on May 18, 2015, 10:55 PM
    you recently posted a picture with an exmuzz who I know is right wing who I've heard say he is "capitalist"


    I'm not sure supporting capitalism makes one right wing  - at least not the extreme type.

    I don't have a problem with capitalism so long as it is kept from its worst excesses by good government.

  • Why are so many exmuslims rightwing ?
     Reply #17 - May 18, 2015, 11:18 PM
    Lol Hassan, are you trying to wind me up? Capitalism has always been right wing politics.

    Also your second sentence doesn't make sense, if you have regulation/governance then it's not Capitalism, it's leaning towards Democratic Socialism. Governments regulating the market is an anathema to Capitalists !

    The central concept of Capitalism is a "free market". A free market is one where there is no Government involvement at all and how goods/services/labour is traded and use is decided privately. Under a free-market there are no government employment laws/rights. One is free to employ a 4 year old or own slaves without Government interference. So even if one says they support free markets, they only support a "relative free market" unless they think it should be legal to have slaves and employ four year olds.

    So to say you want Governance of markets/labour is being anti-capitalist if anything.
  • Why are so many exmuslims rightwing ?
     Reply #18 - May 18, 2015, 11:23 PM
    I think serpent you are generalising based possibly on the small number of ex-muslims who are so strongly anti Islam and vocal that they have found, and been encouraged by a right-wing fan-base which often results in promotion of their views over the majority who leave more quietly. I think someone like Ayaan Hirsi Ali perhaps falls into this category.

    The latter group of people leaving Islam quietly you probably aren't even aware of, as keeping their situation quiet for personal reasons is the norm. Not least because they wish to maintain good relations with their families and communities. I've been here for a little while and found that in general the ex-muslims here are very pro-tolerance (regardless of their politics) and intolerance is a big factor in having problems with Islam. They are also varied in their views politically and certainly not unformly right wing. There wasn't much love for the Tories on the recent election thread for instance.

    I'm not an ex-muslim and certainly don't know the community as well as many here, but as I am an outsider like yourself might I suggest you listen a bit more and trumpet your own preconceptions a little less.
  • Why are so many exmuslims rightwing ?
     Reply #19 - May 18, 2015, 11:36 PM
    SCM, no need for the personal attacks. If you read carefully instead of skimming you'd see I'm basing my views on the plethora of ex-muslims I've met. You admit you are not familiar with the exmuzz community, so perhaps you should't speak about a community you don't know well at all by your own admission.

    As I said previously to Hassan many rightwingers become centrists around leftwingers lol
    I'm pretty up blunt with my criticism of rightwing politics, so in private one-to-one conversations many rights wingers feel the need to defend that Conservatism and expose themselves. As Bill Maher said many Conservatives become liberals when on his show in front of the public, then afterwards backstage when his alone with them privately they become Conservatives again.

    also SCM Who are you to tell me whether I can trumpet my views or not? Who are you to come into a thread I created to tell me what I can't say. This authoritarianism you have displayed shows you have a bit of Islam in you.
  • Why are so many exmuslims rightwing ?
     Reply #20 - May 18, 2015, 11:39 PM
    Quote
    This authoritarianism you have displayed shows you have a bit of Islam in you.


    What does this even mean?
  • Why are so many exmuslims rightwing ?
     Reply #21 - May 18, 2015, 11:42 PM
    @Lua When you want to dictate to others how they should behave.
  • Why are so many exmuslims rightwing ?
     Reply #22 - May 18, 2015, 11:46 PM
    Yeah, but...that's like any religion and a whole bunch of actual synonyms. Grin
  • Why are so many exmuslims rightwing ?
     Reply #23 - May 18, 2015, 11:48 PM
    Is there a proper mechanism for measuring how much Islam a person still has left in them? Maybe like a bar graph?
  • Why are so many exmuslims rightwing ?
     Reply #24 - May 18, 2015, 11:52 PM
     Cheesy Cheesy Like a modified radiation detector.
  • Why are so many exmuslims rightwing ?
     Reply #25 - May 19, 2015, 12:07 AM
    Also, there's an argument that imperialism (at least) isn't a conservative value. The racistest patriarchalest Little Englander who ever told a gay joke isn't exactly keen to keep India British. Those would be the 19th-century Liberals. Because they're spreading progress.
  • Why are so many exmuslims rightwing ?
     Reply #26 - May 19, 2015, 12:15 AM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on May 18, 2015, 05:12 PM
    Sometimes I wonder why "conservative" and "traditional values" became synonymous with "prejudiced bigots".

    And 'left wing' with virtue and moral superiority.
  • Why are so many exmuslims rightwing ?
     Reply #27 - May 19, 2015, 12:22 AM
    Quote from: Zimriel on May 19, 2015, 12:07 AM
    Also, there's an argument that imperialism (at least) isn't a conservative value. The racistest patriarchalest Little Englander who ever told a gay joke isn't exactly keen to keep India British. Those would be the 19th-century Liberals. Because they're spreading progress.


    And you can see some validity in that 'progress' argument in some circumstances. I.e. I would far prefer IS controlled areas to be under protection/control of Western Democracies than either of the other 2 choices (Iran/SA). I also believe that (negating any other issues and arguments for the sake of argument) after the 2nd Iraq war (under the academic assumption that that was justified (hypothetically) the allies should have made a proper job of it there, staying for longer, building a structure, slowly handing over power to the Iraqis over a much longer time period. The situation in post-WW2 West Germany markedly improved under 35 years of the above situation, economically it prospered big time (see below).

    GNP Growth 1950–1960

    1951   1952   1953   1954   1955   1956   1957   1958   1959   1960
    + 10.5   + 8.3   + 7.5   + 7.4   +11.5   + 6.9   + 5.4   +3.3   + 6.7   +8.8
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Germany_%281945%E2%80%9390%29#West_Germany_.28Federal_Republic_of_Germany.29

    East Germany is a completely different picture, as grim as NAZI controlled Germany.
  • Why are so many exmuslims rightwing ?
     Reply #28 - May 19, 2015, 12:56 AM
    Quote from: serpentofeden on May 18, 2015, 11:36 PM
    also SCM Who are you to tell me whether I can trumpet my views or not? Who are you to come into a thread I created to tell me what I can't say. This authoritarianism you have displayed shows you have a bit of Islam in you.


    We are both outsiders in this forum. I came here to listen to stories and points of view I hadn't heard before and I've learned a lot from them, but I'm well aware of the limitations of my knowledge. Conversely you seem convinced of the rightness of your opinions and seem to think you know more about what ex-muslims are like than the ex-muslims themselves.
  • Why are so many exmuslims rightwing ?
     Reply #29 - May 19, 2015, 01:13 AM
    Quote from: serpentofeden on May 18, 2015, 10:58 PM
    maybe because traditional conservative values have given us:

    SLAVERY
    RACISM
    PATRIARCHY
    HOMOPHOBIA
    IMPERIALISM

    Just to add all of the above have been given to us by BOTH Western Empires and Islam in abundance.

    There were/are traditional values both before, after and besides.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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