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 Topic: Being a continual boofhead

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  • Being a continual boofhead
     Reply #30 - June 03, 2015, 11:22 PM
    No that simply won't fly Os, sorry but you're not painting me as someone who isn't amused because they can't take a joke.  I'm not amused because his comments were witless and nasty and contained no humour. 

    I've seen the Australian comedian Adam Hill live and he spent almost the entire routine ripping the piss out of all things Irish, naturally enough given that he was in Ireland.  He was hilarious, because he was using some wit and not merely regurgitating crass 19th century propaganda against famine victims.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Being a continual boofhead
     Reply #31 - June 03, 2015, 11:26 PM
    So which bit has you offended? The shamrock bit, or the pronunciation bit, or the spuds bit?
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Being a continual boofhead
     Reply #32 - June 03, 2015, 11:33 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on June 03, 2015, 11:14 PM
    Racism is commonly used to denote bigotry against people on the grounds of their race, ethnicity or nationality, but whatever.  He's a bigot whatever word you use.


    This^

    It pisses me off when racists use Islam as a blunt instrument to bash Muslims. But if you call them 'racist' they come out with; "Oh Islam is not a religion".

    Sometimes being pedantic about terms like racist / bigot / xenophobe is just evasive sophistry!
  • Being a continual boofhead
     Reply #33 - June 03, 2015, 11:34 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on June 03, 2015, 11:26 PM
    So which bit has you offended? The shamrock bit, or the pronunciation bit, or the spuds bit?


    You can be a prick sometimes.
  • Being a continual boofhead
     Reply #34 - June 03, 2015, 11:38 PM
    I don't think offended is the right word.  I'm more contempuous that someone who is so backward that he sounds like a throwback to the Victorian era  is apparently respectable in Australia.  Although while I'm complaining, I might as well point out that taunting the Irish that they can't grow potatoes isn't far off taunting Jews that they can't use gas masks.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Being a continual boofhead
     Reply #35 - June 03, 2015, 11:39 PM
    I think most people would consider it far off.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Being a continual boofhead
     Reply #36 - June 03, 2015, 11:42 PM
    Empathy.

    Empathy is the single biggest problem of humanity. Rather the lack of genuine empathy.

    We all see things from our perspective and are unable to see how others actually feel and see things.
  • Being a continual boofhead
     Reply #37 - June 03, 2015, 11:44 PM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on June 03, 2015, 11:39 PM
    I think most people would consider it far off.


    Then most people would be wrong.  In terms of victim blaming, and in terms of taunting people about a national tragedy, its not that far off at all.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Being a continual boofhead
     Reply #38 - June 03, 2015, 11:51 PM
    There's no one alive today who still feels the pain of the potato famine.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Being a continual boofhead
     Reply #39 - June 03, 2015, 11:53 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on June 03, 2015, 11:38 PM
    I don't think offended is the right word.  I'm more contempuous that someone who is so backward that he sounds like a throwback to the Victorian era  is apparently respectable in Australia.  Although while I'm complaining, I might as well point out that taunting the Irish that they can't grow potatoes isn't far off taunting Jews that they can't use gas masks.

    TBH I'd never heard if this bloke before, so I don't know how respectable he is. AFAICT he's just someone who used to advise a long-defunct government in some capacity. He seems to be getting a fair bit of flack for his views on same-sex marriage too, not surprisingly, but over here that is the issue rather than what he said about Ireland.

    I can't see how saying Ireland has a mutant lawn weed as a national symbol is any more offensive or any less true than saying Australia has an animal that is too fucking stupid to know how to cross highways as a national symbol. Both are true, both are funny, and neither is going to cause any emotional or other harm to any sane person in either country. As for accents, everybody thinks everybody else talks funny.

    As for spuds, obviously the Irish can and do grow spuds, apart from one brief interlude when they got clobbered by the blight. That did kill a lot of people, but it's nothing like the Holocaust.

    My take on it is that this bloke, while being wrong about same sex marriage and apparently not having any real argument against it, appeared to be deliberately selecting "criticisms" of Ireland that were chosen to be ridiculous. That's certainly how it comes across here. IOW, he most likely wasn't serious about those bits. I can't imagine how anyone would think he was.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Being a continual boofhead
     Reply #40 - June 03, 2015, 11:59 PM
    Quote
    There's no one alive today who still feels the pain of the potato famine


    So what?  I never claimed it was exactly the same, I said it wasn't far off and it isn't.  Historians may disagree about whether or not the Great Famine can be described as genocide but they only disagree on the grounds of whether or not the intent necessary for a genocide was present.  All mainstream historians agree that the effect that disaster had on the Irish people - both demographically and psychologically - is the same as if it had been a genocide, regardless of whether or not it actually was.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Being a continual boofhead
     Reply #41 - June 04, 2015, 12:10 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on June 03, 2015, 11:53 PM
    TBH I'd never heard if this bloke before, so I don't know how respectable he is. AFAICT he's just someone who used to advise a long-defunct government in some capacity. He seems to be getting a fair bit of flack for his views on same-sex marriage too, not surprisingly, but over here that is the issue rather than what he said about Ireland.

    I can't see how saying Ireland has a mutant lawn weed as a national symbol is any more offensive or any less true than saying Australia has an animal that is too fucking stupid to know how to cross highways as a national symbol. Both are true, both are funny, and neither is going to cause any emotional or other harm to any sane person in either country. As for accents, everybody thinks everybody else talks funny.

    As for spuds, obviously the Irish can and do grow spuds, apart from one brief interlude when they got clobbered by the blight. That did kill a lot of people, but it's nothing like the Holocaust.

    My take on it is that this bloke, while being wrong about same sex marriage and apparently not having any real argument against it, appeared to be deliberately selecting "criticisms" of Ireland that were chosen to be ridiculous. That's certainly how it comes across here. IOW, he most likely wasn't serious about those bits. I can't imagine how anyone would think he was.


    I saw the interview with him, they broadcast it earlier on the BBC news in NI.  Of course his comments were ridiculous, but he didn't come across as someone who was trying to be ridiculous.  He came across as someone who was trying to persuade the viewers to think of the Irish as despicable because he wanted to discredit proponents of same sex marriage.  He wasn't trying to be a comedian, he was being nasty.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Being a continual boofhead
     Reply #42 - June 04, 2015, 12:18 AM
    Quote from: Hassan on June 03, 2015, 11:34 PM
    You can be a prick sometimes.


    No, he's pretty consistent. That's why we love 'em. grin12
  • Being a continual boofhead
     Reply #43 - June 04, 2015, 12:20 AM
    Yebbut come on, how the fuck is having a shamrock as a national symbol going to make anyone think you're despicable? Seriously.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Being a continual boofhead
     Reply #44 - June 04, 2015, 12:29 AM
    Like I said Os, I know his comments were ridiculous, but that doesn't change their intent.  It makes him incredibly stupid as well as incredibly racist, (or xenophobic if you prefer), but his intent was clearly to paint the Irish in a negative, hateful way because of our vote to legalise gay marriage.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Being a continual boofhead
     Reply #45 - June 04, 2015, 12:40 AM
    Can't see it. Not the hateful bit. I've met bigots over here of course, but I can't recall any genuine bigotry against the Irish. Poms, Asians, Greeks, Aborigines yes, but not Irish.

    From watching the interview, he thinks having a referendum here would be a divisive waste of time at the moment. I don't doubt that this line is a cover for the usual anti-SSM stuff (children, Adam & Eve, marrying poodles, etc, etc) but I can't see it being based on genuinely despising the Irish per se. That just doesn't compute.

    He's trying to make people laugh at the Irish of course, as part of an effort to write off the case for legal change in Australia, but I think you're misinterpreting him if you think he actually hates Ireland and/or despises Irish people.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Being a continual boofhead
     Reply #46 - June 04, 2015, 12:42 AM
    Louisiana Breaks Off Trade Relations with Ireland



    Quote
    BATON ROUGE (The Borowitz Report) – In the aftermath of Irish voters legalizing gay marriage, Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal has used his emergency powers to ban all Irish products from the state.

    The sweeping trade sanctions will prevent popular Irish products, such as Jameson whiskey and Guinness Extra Stout, from being sold in Louisiana.


    Jindal explained that breaking off trade with Ireland was necessary to protect the sanctity of marriage in Louisiana.

    “Every time someone takes a sip of Guinness, a part of straight marriage dies,” he said.

     Cheesy
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Being a continual boofhead
     Reply #47 - June 04, 2015, 12:57 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on June 04, 2015, 12:40 AM
    Can't see it. Not the hateful bit. I've met bigots over here of course, but I can't recall any genuine bigotry against the Irish. Poms, Asians, Greeks, Aborigines yes, but not Irish.

    From watching the interview, he thinks having a referendum here would be a divisive waste of time at the moment. I don't doubt that this line is a cover for the usual anti-SSM stuff (children, Adam & Eve, marrying poodles, etc, etc) but I can't see it being based on genuinely despising the Irish per se. That just doesn't compute.

    He's trying to make people laugh at the Irish of course, as part of an effort to write off the case for legal change in Australia, but I think you're misinterpreting him if you think he actually hates Ireland and/or despises Irish people.


    I'm afraid Irish people who have spent time in Australia tell me a different story.  They tell me of having comments similar to this man's being thrown at them in job interviews and by employers, and of media editorials in the aftermath of the Boston bomb insinuating that Boston deserved it because its a city full of Irish-Americans, and therefore a city full of terrorists.

    And yes, I think  this man despises Irish people, and I think you're being far too quick to dismiss his words as all a big joke. 
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Being a continual boofhead
     Reply #48 - June 04, 2015, 01:20 AM
    FWIW I think that joking about potato famine that specifically killed so many Irish people is highly insensitive at best, and very bigoted at worst.
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Being a continual boofhead
     Reply #49 - June 04, 2015, 01:26 AM
    To be fair, the Irish have been made fun of, labelled as backward and been discriminated against for like almost a millenia, it's only in the last couple of decades that things have got better.  I remember when i was a kid, the irish were not liked very much, there were endless jokes circulating about the irish being thick, i'm half irish and we used to have gangs of kids outside our home waiting to beat us up, so i can understand how an Irish person may take a little offense to the jokes..  having said that i don't mind jokes about any nationality, an australian could equally take offense to people  joking about them being descendants of criminals, and as we all know, early aussie settlers suffered famine too.

     
  • Being a continual boofhead
     Reply #50 - June 04, 2015, 01:31 AM
    Quote from: asbie on June 04, 2015, 01:20 AM
    FWIW I think that joking about potato famine that specifically killed so many Irish people is highly insensitive at best, and very bigoted at worst.


    Thank you!  It seems that if you dare to object to such stuff, you have to prove that you're not some kind of thin skinned, humourless, outrage merchant.  But surely common sense should tell everybody what you've just said above. 
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Being a continual boofhead
     Reply #51 - June 04, 2015, 02:37 AM
    for me personally, i was surprised how a public figure can make those comments in a live television, yes i find them extremely racist,  Basically Irish are backward and stupid to take their vote as an example.
    anyway that's the way I understood it.
  • Being a continual boofhead
     Reply #52 - June 04, 2015, 05:03 AM
    Quote from: Cheetah on June 04, 2015, 01:31 AM
    Thank you!  It seems that if you dare to object to such stuff, you have to prove that you're not some kind of thin skinned, humourless, outrage merchant.  But surely common sense should tell everybody what you've just said above. 


    I totally agree with you Cheetah and apart from oz im sure everyone here gets what you're saying.
  • Being a continual boofhead
     Reply #53 - June 04, 2015, 07:44 AM
    Quote from: Cheetah on June 04, 2015, 12:57 AM
    I'm afraid Irish people who have spent time in Australia tell me a different story.  They tell me of having comments similar to this man's being thrown at them in job interviews and by employers,

    I'll take your word for it. I don't doubt that it happens at times, but I've never encountered it. This leads me to think it's not many people who would behave like that.

    Quote
    and of media editorials in the aftermath of the Boston bomb insinuating that Boston deserved it because its a city full of Irish-Americans, and therefore a city full of terrorists.

    I'd like to see examples of that. It sounds like the sort of thing you might find by trawling the arse end of shock jock blogs.

    Quote
    And yes, I think  this man despises Irish people, and I think you're being far too quick to dismiss his words as all a big joke.

    The problem I'm having is that your claims just don't match the evidence, as far as I can tell. You've said he wants to make the Irish seem "despicable". Ok, say you're on a mission to make some group of people seem despicable. How would you go about that? Presumably you'd start by accusing them of truly despicable things.

    Let's say I wanted to make Hassan seem despicable. I'm sure he must be, because nobody could be that nice so he must be hiding something, but I need ammunition. So I says to you "Cheetah, me old china, I know how to make Hass seem despicable!" "Fukn bonza!" you say "Tell me more!" "K. I'm going to start by accusing him of a/ using a four-leafed clover as a personal symbol and b/ talking funny and c/ not being a particularly effective gardener!"

    "By fuck" says you "that'll totally work. Those three characteristics are so totally despicable that everyone is bound to think Hass is lower than a snake's arse!"

    Except that you wouldn't. You'd be saying something like "Fucking what?" Huh? You see my problem here? Your claim doesn't match the evidence. If you want to slag off this bloke off for stuff he's actually done that's fair enough, but you seem to be wanting to slag him off for stuff that, as far as I can tell, he hasn't actually done.

    On reflection I'll grant you that he may have been a bit out of line with the spuds thing, but I still think you're taking the rest of it far too seriously. If he wanted to make the Irish seem "despicable" I very much doubt he'd be using "insults" that could have come straight out of Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

    FWIW, this incident has been getting bugger all traction over here. Most people seem to not give a shit, or not even know, that he has said anything at all about any subject. The only outrage seems to be coming from a few Irish sources. Most of the first page of search hits on his name, when you ignore the non-Australian ones, are about a couple of years back when he called Leigh Sales a cow. He's just not a major player in Australia public opinion.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Being a continual boofhead
     Reply #54 - June 04, 2015, 08:03 AM
    Nobody questions my gardening abilities and gets away with it.

    Nobody!
  • Being a continual boofhead
     Reply #55 - June 04, 2015, 09:17 AM
    Quote
    “Every time someone takes a sip of Guinness, a part of straight marriage dies,” he said.

    I'm gonna throw a Guinness kegger, then.
  • Being a continual boofhead
     Reply #56 - June 04, 2015, 09:48 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on June 04, 2015, 07:44 AM
    I'll take your word for it. I don't doubt that it happens at times, but I've never encountered it. This leads me to think it's not many people who would behave like that.
    I'd like to see examples of that. It sounds like the sort of thing you might find by trawling the arse end of shock jock blogs.
    The problem I'm having is that your claims just don't match the evidence, as far as I can tell. You've said he wants to make the Irish seem "despicable". Ok, say you're on a mission to make some group of people seem despicable. How would you go about that? Presumably you'd start by accusing them of truly despicable things.

    Let's say I wanted to make Hassan seem despicable. I'm sure he must be, because nobody could be that nice so he must be hiding something, but I need ammunition. So I says to you "Cheetah, me old china, I know how to make Hass seem despicable!" "Fukn bonza!" you say "Tell me more!" "K. I'm going to start by accusing him of a/ using a four-leafed clover as a personal symbol and b/ talking funny and c/ not being a particularly effective gardener!"

    "By fuck" says you "that'll totally work. Those three characteristics are so totally despicable that everyone is bound to think Hass is lower than a snake's arse!"

    Except that you wouldn't. You'd be saying something like "Fucking what?" Huh? You see my problem here? Your claim doesn't match the evidence. If you want to slag off this bloke off for stuff he's actually done that's fair enough, but you seem to be wanting to slag him off for stuff that, as far as I can tell, he hasn't actually done.

    On reflection I'll grant you that he may have been a bit out of line with the spuds thing, but I still think you're taking the rest of it far too seriously. If he wanted to make the Irish seem "despicable" I very much doubt he'd be using "insults" that could have come straight out of Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

    FWIW, this incident has been getting bugger all traction over here. Most people seem to not give a shit, or not even know, that he has said anything at all about any subject. The only outrage seems to be coming from a few Irish sources. Most of the first page of search hits on his name, when you ignore the non-Australian ones, are about a couple of years back when he called Leigh Sales a cow. He's just not a major player in Australia public opinion.


    "The only outrage seems to be coming from a few Irish sources."  Never mind that then!  Its not like outrage is being felt by anyone who's feelings  count.

    Pah!  I'm not arguing with you anymore Os.  This man is a racist prick and unfortunately he is right in one way - Australia should not have a referendum on gay marriage, but not for the reason he thinks.   Australia is obviously not grown up enough for a referendum.  When you can see why an anti-Irish bigot who gets uncritical approval on your national media should not be defended on the grounds that "only a few Irish people" are offended, then maybe you can be mature enough to  have a national vote on something important.
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Being a continual boofhead
     Reply #57 - June 04, 2015, 10:03 AM
    And furthermore, I don't think Australians are even very good at racism.   Tongue
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Being a continual boofhead
     Reply #58 - June 05, 2015, 07:09 AM
    He doesn't get uncritical approval. Last time he opened his gob he got into hot water. This time nobody is bothering to pay attention. Tongue

    If a national referendum was held tomorrow it would pass, and it would probably pass with much the same majority as the Irish referendum. All the polling that has been done shows that conservative voters are split roughly 50:50 on the issue, and less conservative voters are obviously well in favour (by about 70:30 IIRC). Then there's a few don't know/don't care types thrown into the mix. Since elections here are generally fairly tight, you can assume about half the voters are more or less conservative and the other half aint. Rough hypothetical referendum result would be 60:40 in favour of SSM.

    So we are so too mature enough to have a fucking referendum Tongue despite what racist Irish tossers say. Tongue

    Everyone over here knows such a referendum would pass. We've known it for some time. The only reason we don't have legal SSM over here yet is because so far our pollies have thought there was more value in trying to score points off each other, than in shutting the fuck up and just sorting the legislation. Given that there are limited points to be scored before they start looking like idiots even to themselves, my guess is it'll happen this year or next. I'd be very surprised if it took any longer.

    If you really want to know, the main hold up at the moment is that the Liberal Party has an anti-SSM stance as party policy. I haven't checked, but I suspect the same applies to the National Party (the other bunch in the Coalition gummint). Abbott has realised that he's on the wrong side of history, even if he doesn't like it, and he's talking about allowing a conscience vote. This means it's going to happen. It's all over bar the shouting. Crack the champers now if you feel like it. As soon as the Liberal Party allows a conscience vote then, even if the Nationals stay stodgy, there will be the numbers to get the legislation sorted.

    Labor and the Greens already allow a conscience vote. Tanya Plibersek (Labor 2IC) is trying to get all Labor MP's bound to a pro-SSM stance as party policy, but there's resistance to that. I think it would be a mistake anyway, since if Labor bound its MP's to a party line on the issue then the Liberals and Nationals could argue they have no need to allow conscience vote either. This would bugger things up.

    Obviously the Greens are all tree-hugging hippy wankers who want to marry dolphins, so they'll vote for it anyway.

    Quote from: Cheetah on June 04, 2015, 10:03 AM
    And furthermore, I don't think Australians are even very good at racism.   Tongue

    By fuckery, that's low. I'll have you know we are awesome at racism when we put our minds to it. Tongue
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Being a continual boofhead
     Reply #59 - June 06, 2015, 11:36 AM
    I never really doubted that the Australian public would vote for it.  When I said not mature enough, I was partly yanking your chain and partly referring to the kind of things that might be said by no campaigners.  I get the impression that public discourse in Ireland is a bit more circumspect than it is in Australia, and even so, it must have been hard enough for a lot of same sex couples to listen to the no campaigners over here.  My fear would be that an Australian referendum would be more like the Californian one, where a lot of the things said by no side were downright horrible. 

    And anyway, if Australian law allows for it to be legalised without a referendum, what's the point in having one?  We had no choice but if you guys have then why bother with a long drawn out referendum campaign if you can just legalise it in one afternoon via a parliamentary vote?
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
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