Zarathustra is go in iraq

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- moi
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OP - June 03, 2015, 01:08 PM

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/05/31/fed-up-with-islam-and-sectarianism-some-iraqis-embrace-zoroastrianism.html

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SULAYMANIYAH, Iraq — One of the smallest and oldest religions in the world is experiencing a revival in the semi-autonomous region of Iraqi Kurdistan. The religion has deep Kurdish roots—it was founded by Zoroaster, also known as Zarathustra, who was born in the Kurdish part of Iran 3,500 years ago, and the religion’s sacred book, the Avesta, was written in an ancient language from which the Kurdish language derives.....

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

A.A. Milne,

"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
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Reply #1 - June 04, 2015, 09:32 AM

Well that's quite interesting. Zoroastrianism is incredibly under-studied. I went to college and minored in sociology, and I know hardly anything about it besides (what I remember from) half of one hour long lecture that was dedicated to it. I think the reason is similar to the one that lists Judaism as a major world religion: it's ideological based on Euro-centric ideas of civilization and the relative importance of different religions based mainly on their impact on European thought and culture.

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
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Reply #2 - June 04, 2015, 11:08 AM

According to Tom Holland, the five prayers,the penalty for apostasy and siwak was taken from Zoroastrism to Islam.
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Reply #3 - June 04, 2015, 12:33 PM

Some background

Richard Foltz - Zoroastrianism and the Kurds

Richard Foltz - Co-opting the Prophet: The Politics of Kurdish and Tajik Claims to Zarathushtra and Zoroastrianism

There's also Yarsanism, a completely different Kurdish religion.

Which side are you on?
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Reply #4 - June 04, 2015, 03:28 PM

From first link above

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Like the Zoroastrians, the Yezidis believe that the world will be perfected at the end of time following a final struggle, after
which it will be "smooth like an egg," with neither mountains nor sea

Compare

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Then I saw "a new heaven and a new earth," for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

rev 21 1

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

A.A. Milne,

"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
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Reply #5 - June 04, 2015, 11:07 PM

V good find Moi!
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Reply #6 - June 04, 2015, 11:25 PM

Quote from: Skywalker on June 04, 2015, 11:08 AM
According to Tom Holland, the five prayers,the penalty for apostasy and siwak was taken from Zoroastrism to Islam.

I didn't ever get to study much of the Ithna-'Ashurite Shi'i practices, but if you trust the hardcore Sunnis (a big "if") then the Shi'a took even more from Zoroastrianism:
http://sonsofsunnah.com/2011/09/02/the-role-of-zoroastrianism-in-the-development-of-shiism/

They note that these Shi'a are big on "purity", that bodily impurity implies spiritual purity and vice versa. That would explain why Ayatollah Sistani says infidels are unclean:
http://www.sistani.org/english/book/48/2132/
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Reply #7 - June 04, 2015, 11:40 PM

Quote from: Zimriel on June 04, 2015, 11:25 PM
They note that these Shi'a are big on "purity", that bodily impurity implies spiritual purity and vice versa. That would explain why Ayatollah Sistani says infidels are unclean:
http://www.sistani.org/english/book/48/2132/

Sadly some Muslims in general say that too.
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Reply #8 - June 05, 2015, 11:09 AM

It is strange, I think what we are looking at here are different peoples trying to create some proto history and proto science, and coming up with different hypotheses - that the earth will be egg shaped for example - using experiences from life. Sea in Revelation I understand is actually referring to the chaos before the creation, and the waters of the firmament. A new heaven and earth by definition would have to be very boring, with no storms, waves, movement, change. Predicting ( for example the end times) is exactly what science tries to do, religion is a series of failed hypotheses!

Modern science with chaos theory notes that change and chaos are core parts of the structure of the universe. A heavens and earth without seas is impossible.

A confusion of good and evil with change, calm and disaster has happened. So women wearing jeans do cause earthquakes in some hypotheses.

The problem is we are fighting over various truthinesses, when actually religiously based ones have all failed explanatory criteria.

The issues here about getting parents to change their world views are harder than the issues the tectonic faction had when trying to introduce their views in the 50's and 60's, but religions do not have change and review protocols.

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Sea = primeval chaos (Babylonian Tiamat). Yahweh treading upon the waves (Job 9. = Yahweh conquering chaos. The heavens are stretched out, but the sea is trampled; and the deep (תְּ֭הוֹם, tehom) has to be rebuked (Psalm 104.6-7). A final world with a sea still resisting Yahweh is, on such views, little different than a final world with demons still plaguing humankind

Apols for not direct linking!

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

A.A. Milne,

"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
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Reply #9 - June 05, 2015, 10:05 PM

Quote from: moi on June 05, 2015, 11:09 AM

Modern science with chaos theory notes that change and chaos are core parts of the structure of the universe. A heavens and earth without seas is impossible.

I don't understand the last line...there are lots of worlds without water, right? Do you mean a habitable planet without water is impossible? or that the atmosphere is dependent on the water? I'm confused.

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
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