Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts


Do humans have needed kno...
Yesterday at 10:33 AM

Lights on the way
by akay
January 29, 2025, 12:18 PM

New Britain
January 29, 2025, 11:40 AM

Gaza assault
January 26, 2025, 10:05 AM

اضواء على الطريق ....... ...
by akay
January 26, 2025, 08:55 AM

AMRIKAAA Land of Free .....
January 20, 2025, 05:08 PM

Random Islamic History Po...
by zeca
December 29, 2024, 12:03 PM

Qur'anic studies today
by zeca
December 29, 2024, 11:55 AM

News From Syria
by zeca
December 28, 2024, 12:29 AM

Mo Salah
December 26, 2024, 05:30 AM

What music are you listen...
by zeca
December 25, 2024, 10:58 AM

What's happened to the fo...
December 25, 2024, 02:29 AM

Theme Changer

 Topic: Islam in 50 years from now

 (Read 3489 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Islam in 50 years from now
     OP - June 06, 2015, 07:57 PM

    So, I've been reflecting on the state of affairs for the Muslim world and I was hoping to bounce off some ideas with you all. With the increased focus on Islam since 9/11 and the political upheavals for the past couple of years - with ISIS, and the recent attack on Charlie Hebdo - where do you see Islam and Muslims in the next 50 years?

    I know that 50 years sounds like a long time but most of us will be alive by then, so maybe it would be wise to do some reflecting. We also know that Islamism is roughly 50 years old just to put things in perspective. I think that the internet, with it's quick transfer of information across borders, is the greatest thing that has happened. As we are moving further into a more interconnected, globalized world I don't think that Islam in it's purist form is tenable. People across the world are rejecting, what most of us have now come to realize is an ideology rather than a religion. However, considering the explosive birth rates in Muslim-majority countries and the fact that nearly a third of the world's population identify as Muslims, Islam is not going away anytime soon.

    Critics of purist Islam are making their voices heard, however they can usually only reach out to the well-off and educated. Albeit, the power of ISIS beheadings, and barbaric acts of terrorism speaks a universal language that fills even the dirt poor Muslim with disgust. I feel like the Muslim world is currently experiencing a mass state of cognitive dissonance. On one hand they want to be progressive, be a part of this globalized world, but the Medinian verses of the Qur'an that are polarizing and violent are a part of the Qur'an they cannot reject if they choose to remain within the faith.

    I recently watched a documentary of a woman that wants to establish a female mosque. She was arguing with a Muslim cleric and he easily dismissed her ideas through scripture. Now, even though we might agree with her in principle, you can't deny the Sunnah. This is where the problem lies. I don't think that ''reforming'' Islam is the way to go for multiple reasons.

    So my idea is quite simple; undermine religion altogether. What is giving power to the fundamentalists is scripture. But what if scripture is no longer epistemologically valid? We all know that the Qur'an and Sunnah are filled with scientific and historic inaccuracies, as well as lacking in logic. What if this information could be presented in a non-berating, calm manner in a centralized portal that is open-source. Combining the power of open-source, coding and the internet, and making it easily available to people. There is already wikiislam but I feel like there is too much politics on that site which makes people dismiss them as islamophobic. There is a good load of solid information in here that people can access, but I guess people who visit this website are either on their way out of Islam or have already left.

    As for our role as non-believers coming from Muslim backgrounds, we have a big responsibility. It's difficult here in the West to criticize the religion openly without becoming a spokesman for the far-right or becoming a shooting target for fundamentalists - these lunatics have been proven to not treat those who attack their beliefs very fondly. So maybe it's better to work behind the scenes through the distribution of information? Like a online dissident movement bringing down the religious power structure by informing the public.

    So far we have a lot of blogs that are making our voices heard (at least now nobody can deny that we exist), but they mostly speak from a personal standpoint. We need to inform people and somehow let them know that they have been misled. That all religions, including Islam are human inventions, based on mostly faulty ideas. Muslims still feel that their religion is somehow unique from any criticism.

    If this succeeds, and indeed we are getting somewhere as even 5% of Saudis now identify as atheists, I envision mass nihilism and existential turmoil on a massive scale, somewhat similar to what Europe went through after the First World War. I mean, there is a reason why a lot of us now have a affinity with philosophers like Camus and Nietzsche, and who knows, maybe we will see our own versions of such visionaries in our lifetime.   

    If not, I can only see the Muslim world still discussing the correct manner to beat your wife, while the rest of the world are populating Mars! I mean, at some point this needs to stop! The rest of us who have ''seen the light'' will otherwise abandon this community, flock to the West and create a massive brain-drain in our homelands. I'm also guilty of this as I have no plans to return for the foreseeable future.

    What do you think? I'm especially interested in the ideas of the older generation like Hassan who witnessed the Islamic revival and might have a bigger overview.
  • Islam in 50 years from now
     Reply #1 - June 06, 2015, 08:14 PM

    Quote
    So my idea is quite simple; undermine religion altogether. What is giving power to the fundamentalists is scripture. But what if scripture is no longer epistemologically valid? We all know that the Qur'an and Sunnah are filled with scientific and historic inaccuracies, as well as lacking in logic. What if this information could be presented in a non-berating, calm manner in a centralized portal that is open-source. Combining the power of open-source, coding and the internet, and making it easily available to people. There is already wikiislam but I feel like there is too much politics on that site which makes people dismiss them as islamophobic. There is a good load of solid information in here that people can access, but I guess people who visit this website are either on their way out of Islam or have already left.

    Is it necessary to aim to undermine religion altogether or just scriptural literalism?

    The idea of a site for presenting the information in a neutral way sounds good to me. This is just an outsider's view though.
  • Islam in 50 years from now
     Reply #2 - June 06, 2015, 08:19 PM

    Zeca: Yes that's what I meant. Undermine the scriptural texts as literally true. I don't think there is a problem with accepting the texts as metaphorical or having deeper meanings. The problem is whenever you take the Qur'an as factually true, you also legitimize the practical injunctions like cutting off the thief's hand etc.
  • Islam in 50 years from now
     Reply #3 - June 07, 2015, 03:30 AM

    " What do you think? I'm especially interested in the ideas of the older generation like Hassan who witnessed the Islamic revival and might have a bigger overview. "
     i think Hassan will not be particulary happy by your sentence  dance
  • Islam in 50 years from now
     Reply #4 - June 07, 2015, 07:17 AM

    ^ I don't see why women can't be Iman of an all female mosque, there have been many instances where women have lead prayer, even in mixed congregation throughout history and today in some parts of the world, although, i can see why it may be a problem for the guys concentration lol.  I can't really envision Islam moving forward anytime soon with the hudud laws holding it back, although Islam does have the unique, progressive concept of 'oneness' - tawhid to bring forward, oneness of God and oneness of the human race (but sadly todays muslims only apply this to themselves, anyone outside of Islam is a sub human kuffar ), even Judaism doesn't share this concept of oneness fully, as they believe in a chosen race.   With regards to the backwards hudud laws,  isn't there sayings of the prophet, i cannot find it and not sure if it is a weak saying, that Islam should be constantly modernised to fit with the times, i mean inorder to revive ijtihad ? 
  • Islam in 50 years from now
     Reply #5 - June 07, 2015, 10:21 AM

    To put it bluntly... in 50 years time Islam will either be forced by the rest of the world (around 6 billion that aren't muslim) and young muslims that feel suffocated, to change and adapt to the modern times just like Christianity has been forced to do over the centuries. Or the 6 billion will be so pissed off with Islam that they'll just destroy it themselves. Those are the options (the former clearly being the most ideal).

    For the change in Islam to come you need the powers that be within Islamic nations to be on board with the idea. Now, this may seem far-fetched at first but if you apply some economic and historical thinking to the situation it's quite realistic. What you need to do first is look at the most recent comparison of a religion undergoing a massive shift from being the centre of power to having a mainly traditional and symbolic place in society whereby it has largely been "de-fanged" and is toothless. I am of course talking about Christianity in Europe.

    Apart from greater scientific knowledge, what has been one of the biggest driving factors in Europe over the last, let's say 300 years, that has forced Christianity to take a back seat? The answer: massive economic development. The reason for this is simple... money is more important to people than God! And there are three main reasons for this, which are as follows:

    1. Currency doesn't require belief. We know it's real, you can touch it. It is tangible and exists unlike gods, prophets and deities that require you to just believe.. which is of course irrational.

    2. The possession of currency gives an instant reward in this mortal world as we use it to buy food, put a roof over our heads and purchase all manner of goods and services to make our lifes easier. But religion doesn't offer this. All it can offer is the possibility of an unproven reward in the afterlife and that's not much good here and now in the present while we're alive... We need food and homes!

    3. Religion can't have a complete monopoly on power within a nation like a currency can. There's usually only one legally binding currency within a nation which means you have to use it (so the powers that print and distribute it have a monopoly). Whereas religion is an idea and set of beliefs and philosophies that can cross borders to influence citizens through word of mouth, the written word or through painted/sculpted art so therefor it's impossible to have a monopoly. Any religion that attempts to have a monopoly in a nation will always have to compete with other religions/ideologies that infiltrate the land.  And having a monopoly on power is very attractive to those who run countries. So using currency is the preferred method of retaining power because of its clear advantage over religion.

    These are some if the reasons why religion was/is seen as obsolete by the powers the be in Europe and further afield. They're some of the reasons why The Bank of England was created and why we (the British) went to great lengths to spread the present financial and economic system around the world over the past 300 years...because it's better at creating and retaining power than religion.

    When economic development takes place within a nation the citizens of that nation experience an increase in their quality of life and the people become accustomed to this higher quality of life. So much so that any deterioration of it causes civil unrest and animosity to those who run the country. If the problem with the economy isn't fixed then this could cause an uprising that topples the government... Bad news for those in power! It is, therefor, within the interests of those in power to maintain a healthy economy in order to subdue the population. People are generally happy and more peaceful when they're fed, housed, employed, solvent etc. so they're less inclined to rebel and riot.



    I shall finish this later on today or tomorrow as I must catch a train right now! I hope at least some of you are understanding the point I'm making in regards to changing the Islamic world for the better through economic development. Oh and my apologies for any grammatical, punctuational and spelling errors... I'm typing on a phone.

    Part 2 coming soon. Cheerio!



  • Islam in 50 years from now
     Reply #6 - June 07, 2015, 12:07 PM

    My two cents: a lot of Muslims react to criticism of their religion with paranoia, victimhood mentality, and defensiveness. Maybe part of the solution is to give people the knowledge for them to work out that Islam is false by themselves, without directly criticizing it. More scientific information on evolution needs to be easily available in languages like Arabic, Urdu, etc.

    A good place to start is translation of english language wikipedia articles on evolution, especially human evolution.
  • Islam in 50 years from now
     Reply #7 - June 07, 2015, 04:09 PM

    Tonyt: Exactly. Knowledge is key!
  • Islam in 50 years from now
     Reply #8 - June 07, 2015, 04:19 PM

    Oesmith90: I think you touched on a lot of good points. However, I don't see how the rest of the world getting sick of Muslims is actually contributing to positive change, except than a surge in right-wing parties.

    As for economic empowerment leading to moderation; this makes a lot of sense and is echoed by the likes of Fawaz Gerges. The timespan is just way too long :-(
  • Islam in 50 years from now
     Reply #9 - June 07, 2015, 07:20 PM

    Well I only say that because the question was in regards to where islam will be in 50 years. I think that the other 6 billion humans on earth getting rid of Islam themselves is a real possibility especially if extremist muslims (I know they're a minority by the way) continue with their actions. I hear more and more people express more intolerant views towards muslims and Islam... far more than there used to be. And it's not just in work, down the pub, on the bus etc. It's also not just in the UK, the growing anger and realisation of how aspects of Islam is incompatible with the kind of free, progressive future we want is spreading around the globe. Societies worldwide will only turn a blind eye and tolerate the intolerant for so long. So for muslims who would like to see Islam survive in 50 years and beyond the options are simple... change (through higher education, improved economy, greater mass communication etc.) Or everyone else will force them to change.

    As for the rate at which economies in Islamic nations develop and therefor the rate at which the culture and demands of the people change...well you'd be surprised at how quickly that'll happen. Just look at places like Dubai and Abu Dhabi... how long ago were they almost lifeless deserts and simple fishing/pearl diving ports? Look at them now. And all that within less than 50 years.

    There's potentially a very bright and peaceful future ahead for us all.
  • Islam in 50 years from now
     Reply #10 - June 07, 2015, 10:41 PM

    " What do you think? I'm especially interested in the ideas of the older generation like Hassan who witnessed the Islamic revival and might have a bigger overview. "
     i think Hassan will not be particulary happy by your sentence  dance

    He's older than both my parents. He is an old man. Grin

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Islam in 50 years from now
     Reply #11 - June 07, 2015, 11:03 PM

    To put it bluntly... in 50 years time Islam will either be forced by the rest of the world (around 6 billion that aren't muslim) and young muslims that feel suffocated, to change and adapt to the modern times just like Christianity has been forced to do over the centuries. Or the 6 billion will be so pissed off with Islam that they'll just destroy it themselves. Those are the options.

    That's a pretty simplistic way of looking at it. I can see it being just as possible for the status quo to hang around until the end of the century. And I very much doubt you will get the rest of the world's population on board with "destroying Islam". I can see fighting with some Islamic factions, in fact I think it is pretty much certain, but not total destruction of any and all Islam.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Islam in 50 years from now
     Reply #12 - June 08, 2015, 12:09 AM

    I believe it will be Muslims themselves becoming sick of radical Islam not non-Muslims. Right now there are few power bases holding this view but in the future it is possible for a drastic shift with a new generation that is sick of instability of their nations and the deaths of their people. After all radical Islam has done far more harm to Muslims than it has or probably ever will have on non-Muslims.
  • Islam in 50 years from now
     Reply #13 - June 08, 2015, 11:42 AM

    Just look at places like Dubai and Abu Dhabi... how long ago were they almost lifeless deserts and simple fishing/pearl diving ports? Look at them now. And all that within less than 50 years.

    Amazing what a lottery win can do.
  • Islam in 50 years from now
     Reply #14 - June 08, 2015, 12:10 PM

    “Come and listen to a story about a man named Zayed. A poor Bedouin who barely kept his family fed…”
  • Islam in 50 years from now
     Reply #15 - June 08, 2015, 12:25 PM

    ^ For some reason, the above format made me think of this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qHA366oRMs
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »