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Theme Changer

 Topic: The Qur'an Salvage Project

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  • The Qur'an Salvage Project
     OP - June 08, 2015, 03:11 PM
    In an effort to not throw the proverbial baby out with the bathwater of belief, this is mostly a serious idea. What pieces or partial quotes of the Qur’an do you think are worth salvaging - even if it means taking them out of their traditional contexts?

    Post them here along with reasons why they still resonate with you or how you now understand them differently.

    I’ll chime in in a bit.
  • The Qur'an Salvage Project
     Reply #1 - June 08, 2015, 04:32 PM
    Ayatul-Nur  grin12

    The gnostic in me loves the mysticism in this verse. As you know I am Agnostic lol... but nevertheless I still wonder if there is some greater mystery, something beyond the material world we see around us. I like the way this verse describes this 'something' as a light within a light within a light. I like the universalism of it not being of the East or West.

    If I was to remove any bit of it, then it would be the bit that says 'god guides to his light whoever he wills' - though this verse on it's own doesn't specify any consequences for that so maybe leave it in lol.


    االلَّهُ نُورُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالأَرْضِ مَثَلُ نُورِهِ كَمِشْكَاةٍ فِيهَا مِصْبَاحٌ الْمِصْبَاحُ فِي زُجَاجَةٍ الزُّجَاجَةُ كَأَنَّهَا كَوْكَبٌ دُرِّيٌّ يُوقَدُ مِن شَجَرَةٍ مُّبَارَكَةٍ زَيْتُونَةٍ لّا شَرْقِيَّةٍ وَلا غَرْبِيَّةٍ يَكَادُ زَيْتُهَا يُضِيءُ وَلَوْ لَمْ تَمْسَسْهُ نَارٌ نُّورٌ عَلَى نُورٍ يَهْدِي اللَّهُ لِنُورِهِ مَن يَشَاء وَيَضْرِبُ اللَّهُ الأَمْثَالَ لِلنَّاسِ وَاللَّهُ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمٌ


    “God is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The Parable of His Light is as if there were a Niche and within it a Lamp: the Lamp enclosed in Glass: the glass like a brilliant star: Lit from a blessed Tree, an Olive, neither of the East nor of the West, whose oil is well-nigh luminous, though fire scarce touched it: Light upon Light!” (24:35)”
  • The Qur'an Salvage Project
     Reply #2 - June 08, 2015, 05:52 PM
    That one Hitchens used?
    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • The Qur'an Salvage Project
     Reply #3 - June 08, 2015, 06:08 PM
    I liked the whole of Surat Ar- Rahman.

    My favourite saying is not from the Quran but Hadith, so it doesn't really count.

    Allah says:  "Take a step toward me and i will take ten toward you, walk toward me and i will run to you.. "
  • The Qur'an Salvage Project
     Reply #4 - June 08, 2015, 06:22 PM
    Quote
    light upon light


    http://www.oremus.org/hymnal/o/o370.html

    This hymn uses light of light, which I think is very similar to a creed.

    Quote
    We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
    the only Son of God,
    eternally begotten of the Father,
    God from God, Light from Light,


    http://www.creeds.net/ancient/nicene.htm

    How much of the koran is originally xian and Hebrew?
    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • The Qur'an Salvage Project
     Reply #5 - June 09, 2015, 01:16 AM
    Quote from: Hassan on June 08, 2015, 04:32 PM
    Ayatul-Nur  grin12

    The gnostic in me loves the mysticism in this verse. As you know I am Agnostic lol... but nevertheless I still wonder if there is some greater mystery, something beyond the material world we see around us. I like the way this verse describes this 'something' as a light within a light within a light. I like the universalism of it not being of the East or West.

    If I was to remove any bit of it, then it would be the bit that says 'god guides to his light whoever he wills' - though this verse on it's own doesn't specify any consequences for that so maybe leave it in lol.


    االلَّهُ نُورُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالأَرْضِ مَثَلُ نُورِهِ كَمِشْكَاةٍ فِيهَا مِصْبَاحٌ الْمِصْبَاحُ فِي زُجَاجَةٍ الزُّجَاجَةُ كَأَنَّهَا كَوْكَبٌ دُرِّيٌّ يُوقَدُ مِن شَجَرَةٍ مُّبَارَكَةٍ زَيْتُونَةٍ لّا شَرْقِيَّةٍ وَلا غَرْبِيَّةٍ يَكَادُ زَيْتُهَا يُضِيءُ وَلَوْ لَمْ تَمْسَسْهُ نَارٌ نُّورٌ عَلَى نُورٍ يَهْدِي اللَّهُ لِنُورِهِ مَن يَشَاء وَيَضْرِبُ اللَّهُ الأَمْثَالَ لِلنَّاسِ وَاللَّهُ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمٌ


    “God is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The Parable of His Light is as if there were a Niche and within it a Lamp: the Lamp enclosed in Glass: the glass like a brilliant star: Lit from a blessed Tree, an Olive, neither of the East nor of the West, whose oil is well-nigh luminous, though fire scarce touched it: Light upon Light!” (24:35)”


    The most fascinating thing to me about this verse is the last bit - that no fire had touched the oil. So, in the end, there really is no actual light.
  • The Qur'an Salvage Project
     Reply #6 - June 09, 2015, 01:25 AM
    This is easy for me: Surat al-Duha (93). One's heart would have to be *very* hard not to appreciate that one. IMO
  • The Qur'an Salvage Project
     Reply #7 - June 09, 2015, 01:28 AM
    That was my main pick as well. I was going to expound upon it once I had the chance, but you beat me to it.
  • The Qur'an Salvage Project
     Reply #8 - June 09, 2015, 02:30 AM
    i find surat maryam (19) to be quite poetic Smiley
  • The Qur'an Salvage Project
     Reply #9 - June 09, 2015, 01:42 PM
    Quote from: Zimriel on June 09, 2015, 01:25 AM
    This is easy for me: Surat al-Duha (93). One's heart would have to be *very* hard not to appreciate that one. IMO


    That was my father's favourite
  • The Qur'an Salvage Project
     Reply #10 - June 09, 2015, 01:43 PM
    Quote from: happymurtad on June 09, 2015, 01:16 AM
    The most fascinating thing to me about this verse is the last bit - that no fire had touched the oil. So, in the end, there really is no actual light.


    I understood that to mean the oil was so special and awesome that it glowed with light even before it was lit.
  • The Qur'an Salvage Project
     Reply #11 - June 09, 2015, 01:44 PM
    We need an ex-Muslim Ibn Kathir to collect the different narrations of ex-Muslims into a single tafseer  grin12
  • The Qur'an Salvage Project
     Reply #12 - June 09, 2015, 01:46 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on June 09, 2015, 01:43 PM
    I understood that to mean the oil was so special and awesome that it glowed with light even before it was lit.


    yap it came out from  one of allah/god's holes.. Not sure which hole..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • The Qur'an Salvage Project
     Reply #13 - June 09, 2015, 02:15 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on June 09, 2015, 01:43 PM
    I understood that to mean the oil was so special and awesome that it glowed with light even before it was lit.


    Well, precisely. That is what it says. But if you think about it, the oil is the only thing in the verse capable of actually producing light.

    We have a lamp in a niche, neither of which are capable of producing light on their own. Instead, they are places from which the light can emanate.

    Then we have the glass which is compared to a brilliant star. But the glass, of course, cannot produce its own light. It refracts, reflects, and intensifies the light – so much so that the glass itself ends up looking like a glowing orb, a brilliant star—but the glass itself is not the source of the light.

    Then we move on to the tree that fuels the fire. This is where it gets really interesting because, as mufassiroon have noted, the olive is both a blessed tree and a humble tree. Short and dull, yet extremely versatile. Used in both religious ceremonies and daily, mundane tasks like cooking and grooming. Holy only because we deem it to be. “Neither of the East nor of the West is almost a way of saying, “neither here nor there.” It exists just as a worldly tree would, but not in any way that we could understand.

    It is certainly not the wood of this tree that fuels the light. Instead, it is the rich, plentiful oil – its essence. The essence of God. So rich is this oil that it nearly shines on its own, even if it is not lit. If the oil can nearly shine even without being lit, then it’s almost as though we are being told that it does not matter if the light really exists or not, you don’t actually need it to produce the light. Through the niche, the lamp, and the brilliant glass, the essence of this oil, which is inclined to shine on its own (though we know that oil does not actually shine) will produce light. Something from nothing.

    Wallahu ‘alam  grin12
  • The Qur'an Salvage Project
     Reply #14 - June 09, 2015, 02:28 PM
    Ohh, from probably the only surah I can still recite properly from memory. I like the whole thing, to be honest, but I reckon this is the important part:

    فَإِنَّ مَعَ الْعُسْرِ يُسْرًا
     إِنَّ مَعَ الْعُسْرِ يُسْرًا

    I like poetic repetition, and also the message is pretty neat.
  • The Qur'an Salvage Project
     Reply #15 - June 09, 2015, 02:35 PM
    ^That surah still makes me chuckle from time to time. I remember when we were kids learning it at the little mosque Sunday school, our Qur’an teacher would have us repeat after him, ”al-lathee anqadha thahrak! But one of my friends just couldn’t get it and kept saying, “Al-lathee Honkada donk donk!” To which we’d all burst out laughing.  Grin
  • The Qur'an Salvage Project
     Reply #16 - June 09, 2015, 02:39 PM
    Cheesy Oh, that's cute. Although I do worse to this day and shouldn't laugh.
  • The Qur'an Salvage Project
     Reply #17 - June 09, 2015, 03:18 PM
    Quote from: happymurtad on June 09, 2015, 02:15 PM
    Well, precisely. That is what it says. But if you think about it, the oil is the only thing in the verse capable of actually producing light.

    We have a lamp in a niche, neither of which are capable of producing light on their own. Instead, they are places from which the light can emanate.

    Then we have the glass which is compared to a brilliant star. But the glass, of course, cannot produce its own light. It refracts, reflects, and intensifies the light – so much so that the glass itself ends up looking like a glowing orb, a brilliant star—but the glass itself is not the source of the light.

    Then we move on to the tree that fuels the fire. This is where it gets really interesting because, as mufassiroon have noted, the olive is both a blessed tree and a humble tree. Short and dull, yet extremely versatile. Used in both religious ceremonies and daily, mundane tasks like cooking and grooming. Holy only because we deem it to be. “Neither of the East nor of the West is almost a way of saying, “neither here nor there.” It exists just as a worldly tree would, but not in any way that we could understand.

    It is certainly not the wood of this tree that fuels the light. Instead, it is the rich, plentiful oil – its essence. The essence of God. So rich is this oil that it nearly shines on its own, even if it is not lit. If the oil can nearly shine even without being lit, then it’s almost as though we are being told that it does not matter if the light really exists or not, you don’t actually need it to produce the light. Through the niche, the lamp, and the brilliant glass, the essence of this oil, which is inclined to shine on its own (though we know that oil does not actually shine) will produce light. Something from nothing.

    Wallahu ‘alam  grin12



    Ma shallah, Shaykh HM - al-'ilm nur! - That was an insightful tafseer - May Allah reward you in this world and the next  Afro
  • The Qur'an Salvage Project
     Reply #18 - June 09, 2015, 03:20 PM
    Quote from: happymurtad on June 09, 2015, 02:35 PM
    ^That surah still makes me chuckle from time to time. I remember when we were kids learning it at the little mosque Sunday school, our Qur’an teacher would have us repeat after him, ”al-lathee anqadha thahrak! But one of my friends just couldn’t get it and kept saying, “Al-lathee Honkada donk donk!” To which we’d all burst out laughing.  Grin


     Cheesy

    Like the old Moroccan lady who mixed up Quran and Furqan and so always called the Quran "The Qurqan"  grin12
  • The Qur'an Salvage Project
     Reply #19 - June 09, 2015, 04:50 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on June 09, 2015, 03:18 PM
    Ma shallah, Shaykh HM - al-'ilm nur! - That was an insightful tafseer - May Allah reward you in this world and the next  Afro


    Hmm. So if al-‘ilmu nur, and Allahu nur, and we already know that knowledge is power, then knowledge must be God. #mindblown Grin
  • The Qur'an Salvage Project
     Reply #20 - June 09, 2015, 05:00 PM
     Cheesy
  • The Qur'an Salvage Project
     Reply #21 - June 11, 2015, 07:20 PM
    Surat al-Balad has to be up there.  Very similar to Matthew 25:31-46, itself one of the best parts of the Gospels.
  • The Qur'an Salvage Project
     Reply #22 - June 11, 2015, 08:21 PM
    Yes. Surah Balad is indeed a keeper, particularly as it describes the "rocky track" that most men will not follow. I was thinking about it the other day and how it is essentially the opposite of everything ISIS stands for - freeing slaves, enjoining patience and mercy, caring for the poor and for orphans, etc.

    One fragment of an ayah I would certainly keep is from Surah Hashr,

    ومن يوق شح نفسه فأولئك هم المفلحون


    "Whosoever is spared the greed of his own soul, those are the successful."

    That surah in general is really interesting in that it demonstrates well how the Qur'an blends these moving, spiritual verses describing god with verses spewing violence and war.
  • The Qur'an Salvage Project
     Reply #23 - June 11, 2015, 09:02 PM
    I always liked surat al-kaafiruun. It was my favorite to quote to Muslims in Oman when they tried to convert me and I did not feel like arguing  grin12

    قُلْ يَا أَيُّهَا الْكَافِرُونَ لَا أَعْبُدُ مَا تَعْبُدُونَ  وَلَا أَنْتُمْ عَابِدُونَ مَا أَعْبُدُ  وَلَا أَنَا عَابِدٌ مَا عَبَدْتُمْ  وَلَا أَنْتُمْ عَابِدُونَ مَا أَعْبُدُ  لَكُمْ دِينُكُمْ وَلِيَ دِينِ

    In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
    Say: Oh unbelievers,
    I do not worship what you worship,
    nor do you worship what I worship.
    And I will not worship what you worship,
    Nor will you worship what I worship.
    To you be your religion, and to me a religion.

    إطلب العلم ولو في الصين

    Es sitzt keine Krone so fest und so hoch,
    Der mutige Springer erreicht sie doch.

    I don't give a fuck about your war, or your President.
  • The Qur'an Salvage Project
     Reply #24 - June 11, 2015, 09:35 PM
    Quote from: Zaotar on June 11, 2015, 07:20 PM
    Surat al-Balad has to be up there.  Very similar to Matthew 25:31-46, itself one of the best parts of the Gospels.


    And I'd totally nix the last two verses of balad.
  • The Qur'an Salvage Project
     Reply #25 - June 11, 2015, 09:52 PM
    On oil, is the quran referencing this?

    Quote
    Luke 7:36-50New Century Version (NCV)

    A Woman Washes Jesus’ Feet
    36 One of the Pharisees asked Jesus to eat with him, so Jesus went into the Pharisee’s house and sat at the table. 37 A sinful woman in the town learned that Jesus was eating at the Pharisee’s house. So she brought an alabaster jar of perfume 38 and stood behind Jesus at his feet, crying. She began to wash his feet with her tears, and she dried them with her hair, kissing them many times and rubbing them with the perfume. 39 When the Pharisee who asked Jesus to come to his house saw this, he thought to himself, “If Jesus were a prophet, he would know that the woman touching him is a sinner!”

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • The Qur'an Salvage Project
     Reply #26 - June 11, 2015, 09:58 PM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwhS3X_cKQg

    I love Surat al-Duha and no one recites it better than Abdul Basit. He uses his hands to manipulate his voice which is an ancient Egypian technique derided by Salafists.

    Surat Mariam is also beautiful, especially the part where God tells her not to be sad and to take shelter under a palm tree. I always thought that was so kind and caring of God. Ugh, why did I have to go be a freakin kafirah?Huh???
  • The Qur'an Salvage Project
     Reply #27 - August 02, 2015, 11:51 AM
    Quote from: curiousarabgirl on June 11, 2015, 09:58 PM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwhS3X_cKQg

    ,............Surat Mariam is also beautiful, especially the part where God tells her not to be sad and to take shelter under a palm tree. I always thought that was so kind and caring of God. Ugh, why did I have to go be a freakin kafirahHuh?Huh?


    well curiousarabgirl listens to Quran from that wonderful voice of Abdul Basit and says Ugh,......... why did I have to go be a freakin kafirah??  So on those words..  let me read some Quran and see what i can salvage from it.. So on these religious issues I always go and read/talk/listen  to some HORSES and ASSES preaching god's words.. and today I select    muslimvilla. com  and I  go to this  Quran folder of muslimvilla

    Quote
    "And strive for Allah with the endeavour which is His right. He hath chosen you and hath not laid upon you in religion any hardship; the faith of your father Abraham (is yours). HE HAS NAMED YOU MUSLIMS OF OLD TIME AND IN THIS (SCRIPTURE), that the messenger may be a witness against you, and that ye may be witnesses against mankind. So establish worship, pay the poor-due, and hold fast to Allah. He is your Protecting friend. A blessed Patron and a blessed Helper!"  (22:78)  Noble Quran.
    and that verse is is picked by Hiba

    "(This is) a Scripture that We have revealed unto thee, full of blessing, that they may ponder its revelations, and that men of understanding may reflect."  38:29  Surah Saad.........and that verse is is picked by Zeynab The Boss

    "And say: Lo! I, even I, am a plain warner, Such as We send down for those who make division, Those who break the Qur'an into parts. Them, by thy Lord, We shall question, every one, Of what they used to do." (15:89-93)............ and that is from Truth Seeker.. the rascal

    "He it is Who hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture wherein are clear revelations - they are the substance of the Book - and others (which are) allegorical. But those in whose hearts is doubt pursue, forsooth, that which is allegorical seeking (to cause) dissension by seeking to explain it. None knoweth its explanation save Allah. And those who are of sound instruction say: We believe therein; the whole is from our Lord; but only men of understanding really heed."  (3:7)..... and that is from Ruhi_Rose


    So anything special in those verses? anything I can learn from them? Can I salvage bit of Quran from them??  ... I don't know... The only thing I see is All  girls reading lots of Quran.. . reading is important  to understand it..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
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