What is the cause of Islams growth?

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What is the cause of Islams growth?
OP - June 28, 2015, 09:25 PM

It doesnt matter where you go, forums, articles, polls, demonstrations and even the internet; islam is considered the fastest growing religion, but why? how? those questions keep hitting my head, i cant seem to understand why anyone would willingly convert to islam, especially those who actually read the quran fully translated and the hadiths. Why would any decent human chose to become a muslim after studying it?
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Reply #1 - June 29, 2015, 12:31 AM

First reason that comes to mind is us. Apostates are massively unaccounted for in all sorts of statistics concerning Islam due to a huge number of factors, thus significantly blowing the numbers out of proportion. Though I am sure there are lots of other reasons such as the numbers simply being biased, and religious inheritance in addition to the -normally- large birth rate in Muslim countries and societies.

Note: Also, I think I remember a thread about this from a while back, you might get lucky if you look around for it, or maybe someone with a better memory will link it.

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Reply #2 - June 29, 2015, 01:17 PM

Quote
What is the cause of Islams growth?

That is a very good question to answer... There are many reasons for that so-called "Islamic Growth" if it is really a growth..

1). a). Rules and regulations of Islam (it doesn't matter whether they are good or bad) and b). dedicated Muslim folks and every day Islamic rituals that follow those rules + Mullahs and Rulers that control s the society ....

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Reply #3 - June 29, 2015, 01:48 PM

Imagine if we removed these three simple factors from muslims (and Islam)

1. Massive fertility rates
2. Childhood Indoctrination
3. Harsh punishment of critic and dissent

Wonder how much of Islam would remain?
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Reply #4 - June 29, 2015, 02:06 PM

Quote from: xtremestr on June 29, 2015, 12:31 AM
First reason that comes to mind is us. Apostates are massively unaccounted for in all sorts of statistics concerning Islam due to a huge number of factors, thus significantly blowing the numbers out of proportion. Though I am sure there are lots of other reasons such as the numbers simply being biased, and religious inheritance in addition to the -normally- large birth rate in Muslim countries and societies.

Note: Also, I think I remember a thread about this from a while back, you might get lucky if you look around for it, or maybe someone with a better memory will link it.

Yeah i took into consideration the birth rates and inheritance; i also realized something else from experience, a lot of the muslim converts usually become muslims so they could marry their muslim partner who they essentially fell in love with, it explains why the muslim converts study islam AFTER they've becomes muslims.

Quote from: yeezevee on June 29, 2015, 01:17 PM
That is a very good question to answer... There are many reasons for that so-called "Islamic Growth" if it is really a growth..

1). a). Rules and regulations of Islam (it doesn't matter whether they are good or bad) and b). dedicated Muslim folks and every day Islamic rituals that follow those rules + Mullahs and Rulers that control s the society ....

I agree with you and xtremestr, i think birthrate, inheritance and strict traditions (death penalty for apostasy) are the major contributors for islams growth; i recall a couple of scholars giving a speech in east london mosque about how the death penalty prevents muslims from leaving islam, due to fear of death, and how that helps the islam continue to grow and prevents others from leaving (thats some sick thinking right there).
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Reply #5 - June 29, 2015, 02:07 PM

Quote from: Roberto40 on June 29, 2015, 01:48 PM
Imagine if we removed these three simple factors from muslims (and Islam)

1. Massive fertility rates
2. Childhood Indoctrination
3. Harsh punishment of critic and dissent

Wonder how much of Islam would remain?

I would also include:

4. peer pressure/ emotional blackmail
5. lack of education/critical thinking

If all 5 steps were to be taken into account i doubt islam would remain in the 6 digit figures let alone the billions.
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Reply #6 - June 29, 2015, 03:49 PM

Roberto summed it up pretty much. However, what accelerates this process and keeps it self-perpetuating is the high birth rates in Muslim-majority countries.
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Reply #7 - June 29, 2015, 04:32 PM

Two words:

FERTILITY RATES
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Reply #8 - June 29, 2015, 04:47 PM

@serpentofeden
Two words:

FERTILITY RATES

Which can also be related with Islam.
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Reply #9 - June 29, 2015, 04:52 PM

Quote
Quote from: nbhb on June 29, 2015, 04:47 PM
@serpentofeden
Two words:

~~FERTILITY RATES~~

Quote
Quote from: nbhb on June 29, 2015, 04:47 PM

~~Which can also be related with Islam.~~

economy ....education...... education....... employment .....

Quote from: serpentofeden on June 29, 2015, 04:32 PM
Two words:

~~FERTILITY RATES~~

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/rawdata_2127.txt

COUNTRY COMPARISON :: TOTAL FERTILITY RATE

Total fertility rate (TFR) compares figures for the average number of children that would be born per woman if all women lived to the end of their childbearing years and bore children according to a given fertility rate at each age. TFR is a more direct measure of the level of fertility than the crude birth rate, since it refers to births per woman.

Quote
1 Niger 6.89
2 Mali 6.16
3 Burundi 6.14
4 Somalia 6.08
5 Uganda 5.97
6 Burkina Faso 5.93
7 Zambia 5.76
8 Malawi 5.66
9 Angola 5.43
10 South Sudan 5.43
11 Afghanistan 5.43
12 Mozambique 5.27
13 Nigeria 5.25
14 Ethiopia 5.23
15 Timor-Leste 5.11
16 Benin 5.04
17 Tanzania 4.95
18 Guinea 4.93
19 Sierra Leone 4.83
20 Cameroon 4.82
21 Liberia 4.81
22 Congo, Democratic Republic of the 4.80
23 Congo, Republic of the 4.73
24 Chad 4.68
25 Sao Tome and Principe 4.67
26 Equatorial Guinea 4.66
27 Rwanda 4.62
28 Togo 4.53
29 Senegal 4.52
30 Gabon 4.49
31 Central African Republic 4.46
32 Guinea-Bissau 4.30
33 Madagascar 4.28
34 Gaza Strip 4.24
35 Eritrea 4.14
36 Yemen 4.09
37 Ghana 4.09
38 Western Sahara 4.07
39 Mauritania 4.07
40 Sudan 3.92
41 Gambia, The 3.85
42 Comoros 3.76
43 Cote d'Ivoire 3.63
44 Zimbabwe 3.56
45 Kenya 3.54
46 Iraq 3.41
47 Tonga 3.36
48 Vanuatu 3.36
49 Solomon Islands 3.36
50 Papua New Guinea 3.24
51 Marshall Islands 3.22
52 Jordan 3.16
53 Philippines 3.06
54 Tuvalu 3.03
55 Belize 3.02
56 Guatemala 2.99
57 American Samoa 2.98
58 Samoa 2.94
59 Nauru 2.93
60 Laos 2.90
61 Swaziland 2.88
62 Egypt 2.87
63 Oman 2.86
64 Honduras 2.86
65 Pakistan 2.86
66 West Bank 2.83
67 Bolivia 2.80
68 Haiti 2.79
69 Lesotho 2.78
70 Algeria 2.78
71 Tajikistan 2.76
72 Kyrgyzstan 2.68
73 Syria 2.68
74 Cambodia 2.66
75 Israel 2.62
76 Malaysia 2.58
77 Kiribati 2.56
78 Micronesia, Federated States of 2.55
79 Kuwait 2.53
80 Fiji 2.51
81 India 2.51
82 Djibouti 2.47
83 Bangladesh 2.45
84 Faroe Islands 2.38
85 Panama 2.38
86 Guam 2.38
87 Botswana 2.37
88 Dominican Republic 2.36
89 United Arab Emirates 2.36
90 Venezuela 2.35
91 Cabo Verde 2.34
92 Kazakhstan 2.34
93 Nepal 2.30
94 Mexico 2.29
95 Ecuador 2.29
96 Cook Islands 2.27
97 Argentina 2.25
98 Namibia 2.25
99 South Africa 2.23
100 Mongolia 2.22
101 Peru 2.22
102 Indonesia 2.18
103 Burma 2.18
104 Saudi Arabia 2.17
105 Morocco 2.15
106 Guyana 2.14
107 Sri Lanka 2.13
108 Turkmenistan 2.10
109 Curacao 2.09
110 Grenada 2.09
111 Sint Maarten 2.09
112 France 2.08
113 Turkey 2.08
114 Libya 2.07
115 Colombia 2.07
116 Greenland 2.06
117 Dominica 2.05
118 Jamaica 2.05
119 New Zealand 2.05
120 Antigua and Barbuda 2.03
121 Bhutan 2.02
122 Suriname 2.01
123 United States 2.01
124 Northern Mariana Islands 2.01
125 Ireland 2.00
126 Tunisia 2.00
127 New Caledonia 1.99
128 Nicaragua 1.99
129 Korea, North 1.98
130 Bahamas, The 1.97
131 Paraguay 1.96
132 Bermuda 1.95
133 El Salvador 1.95
134 French Polynesia 1.95
135 Isle of Man 1.94
136 Qatar 1.92
137 Gibraltar 1.92
138 Azerbaijan 1.91
139 Costa Rica 1.91
140 United Kingdom 1.90
141 Iceland 1.88
142 Sweden 1.88
143 Seychelles 1.88
144 Cayman Islands 1.86
145 Norway 1.86
146 Iran 1.85
147 Vietnam 1.85
148 Uruguay 1.84
149 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 1.84
150 Chile 1.84
151 Aruba 1.84
152 Brunei 1.82
153 Bahrain 1.81
154 Uzbekistan 1.80
155 Brazil 1.79
156 Netherlands 1.78
157 Saint Kitts and Nevis 1.78
158 Australia 1.77
159 Georgia 1.77
160 Luxembourg 1.77
161 Mauritius 1.77
162 Saint Lucia 1.77
163 Maldives 1.76
164 Wallis and Futuna 1.76
165 Virgin Islands 1.75
166 Anguilla 1.75
167 Lebanon 1.74
168 Denmark 1.73
169 Finland 1.73
170 Palau 1.71
171 Trinidad and Tobago 1.71
172 Turks and Caicos Islands 1.70
173 Liechtenstein 1.69
174 Barbados 1.68
175 Jersey 1.66
176 Belgium 1.65
177 Puerto Rico 1.64
178 Armenia 1.64
179 Russia 1.61
180 Macedonia 1.59
181 Canada 1.59
182 Saint Helena, Ascension, and Tristan da Cunha 1.58
183 Moldova 1.56
184 Saint Pierre and Miquelon 1.56
185 China 1.55
186 Guernsey 1.55
187 Malta 1.54
188 Switzerland 1.54
189 Monaco &#

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What is the cause of Islams growth?
Reply #10 - June 29, 2015, 04:53 PM

Indeed.

Pakistan's, Bangladesh's and Iran's populations have tripled in the last 50 years. Iraq's population, despite all the mayhem, has quadrupled. Indonesia's and Egypt's populations have grown 2.5 times. Never mind India where the number of Muslims have increased from 8% to 15% of the population since the partition (IIRC).

In other news, less than half of Denmark's Muslims are considered practicing. About 10% go to mosque "regularly" according to an imam here.

And in even other news the fertility rate for women with non-western background is lower than ethnic Danes. 1.6 children per women among people with non-western immigrant background compared to 1.9 children per women with Danish heritage. They are busy with education and career often encouraged by their parents. Of course there are also plenty of examples of the stereotype with an abaya'ed mother who can't speak a word of Danish and a gazillion kids but that is changing.

For 2013 Denmark received more immigrants (of all kinds, including the Nordics and the rest of the EU and accepted refugees) than children born here.

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Reply #11 - June 29, 2015, 04:55 PM

Quote from: Nikolaj on June 29, 2015, 04:53 PM
Indeed.

..............................,

but but.... Islam was there for the past 1400 years......

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Reply #12 - June 29, 2015, 05:00 PM

Yeezee.

I never said that it is related only with Islam. Just that Islam has a part in it.
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Reply #13 - June 29, 2015, 05:05 PM

Quote from: Nikolaj on June 29, 2015, 04:53 PM
And in even other news the fertility rate for women with non-western background is lower than ethnic Danes. 1.6 children per women among people with non-western immigrant background compared to 1.9 children per women with Danish heritage. They are busy with education and career often encouraged by their parents. Of course there are also plenty of examples of the stereotype with an abaya'ed mother who can't speak a word of Danish and a gazillion kids but that is changing.

Non-western immigrant background... If I take it literally it incorporate also non-muslims...
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Reply #14 - June 29, 2015, 05:32 PM

It does. However people often assume that "non-Western" = "crazy and lazy Muslim" in debates

We have our share of Alevis (which are kind of Muslim), Lebanese, Syrian, Palestinian, Iraqi, Iranian, Ethiopian and Eritrean Christians. Also a bunch of Ezidis (Yazidis) who have scrambled to support the Ezidis in Iraq.

I also know several Atheist Danish-Palestinians (Yahya Hassan is one) and "Agnostic Muslim"-ish Danish Afghans and Kurds. Lots of Kurds. As it read in a paper zeca posted (thanks, zeca): "Compared to the infidel, the Kurd is Muslim" They mostly are pretty lax on Islam however there are "honour culture" issues among some. There have been incidents of honour killings among Danish Kurds (you UK'ers might remember "Banaz - a love story" - she was also of Kurdish heritage).

We also have some Armenians around which are also labeled "non-Western".

Same with our large group of Bosnians, Kosovars and Albanians (and Serbs and Croats (who magically became "western" in 2013) and Montenegrins and Macedonians). They are also counted as "non-Western" despite they have in general been very good at adopting their new host country. Minus the ones that ended up in the gangs. Quite a bit of those are Romani (as with the Romanians) but those that settle and work don't mention that because they don't want the associated stigmatisation. There are about 15,000 settled Romanis that came from the former Yugoslavia in the 70's-90's according to a Danish-Romani cop (!) I spoke to once and estimated about 100,000 Danes with some kind of Romani background accumulated through the last couple of centuries.

For Denmark you are "non-Western" if you are not from the EU, Iceland, Norway, Australia, New Zealand, some of the European mini-states or North America minus Mexico

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Reply #15 - June 29, 2015, 09:30 PM

So does the TFR graph/figure confirm that the fertility rate is the accurate explanation for islams growth?
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Reply #16 - June 30, 2015, 12:42 AM

Nikolaj
Do you have statistic on issues such as unemployment and education among immigrants in Denmark from different countries?
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Reply #17 - June 30, 2015, 03:19 AM

In Western countries just looking at the fertility rate underestimates the growth rate of the Muslim community because many Muslims will bring in spouses from their ancestral country in arranged marriages and the like. So for example if the average Muslim woman bears 3 children, and 2 of those children end up marrying and bringing over a spouse from a foriegn Muslim country, that works out to a Muslim growth rate of 5 per generation, not 3.
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Reply #18 - June 30, 2015, 10:10 AM

Annual growth in number of people

Bangladesh ~ 2 million
Egypt ~ 1.5 million
Iran ~ 1 million
Indonesia ~ 3 million
Pakitan ~ 3 million
Turkey ~ 1 million

Indonesia from 2011 to 2015 ~ Growth of 18 million people
Pakistan from 2010 to 2015 ~ Growth of 20 million people
Bangladesh from 2010 to 2015 ~ Growth of 10 million people

95% of these people are "muslims". Apostates are not accounted for.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/04/23/why-muslims-are-the-worlds-fastest-growing-religious-group/

Quote
The main reasons for Islam’s growth ultimately involve simple demographics. To begin with, Muslims have more children than members of the seven other major religious groups analyzed in the study. Each Muslim woman has an average of 3.1 children, significantly above the next-highest group (Christians at 2.7) and the average of all non-Muslims (2.3). In all major regions where there is a sizable Muslim population, Muslim fertility exceeds non-Muslim fertility.

The growth of the Muslim population also is helped by the fact that Muslims have the youngest median age (23 in 2010) of all major religious groups, seven years younger than the median age of non-Muslims (30). A larger share of Muslims will soon be at the point in their lives when people begin having children. This, combined with high fertility rates, will accelerate Muslim population growth.

India’s number of Muslims is growing at a faster rate than the country’s majority Hindu population, and is projected to rise from 14.4% of India’s 2010 population to 18.4% (or 311 million people) in 2050. And while there were roughly equal numbers of Muslims and Christians in Nigeria as of 2010, Muslims have higher fertility there and are expected to grow to a solid majority of Nigeria’s population (58.5%) in 2050.

"Fastest growing" never bothered me. I wouldn't be surprised if Islam in actuality is one of the "fastest declining" religions. Just look at the amount of apostates on facebook and twitter from muslim countries. Not to mention people like us, who live in the west. Many who just keep their mouth shut on
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Reply #19 - June 30, 2015, 10:52 AM

That birth rate table is a tragedy for Africa as a whole, not just Islamic Africa.

Wake up, people. Or start planting trees in the savannah, sharpish.
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Reply #20 - June 30, 2015, 12:16 PM

I have the impression that Islam is actually extremely fragile and is basically on its last legs. Yes it has impressive and very extensive life support from oil money, and is extremely dangerous in its death rattles, but the reality is it actually hasn't got anything better than other societies, and once people do get some edumacation they say goodbye.

I wonder if all these people, including family members huffing and puffing about the truth of Islam actually believe it themselves.

The emperor really has no clothes.

If you are dependent on assertion and violence, what actually is your morality?

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Reply #21 - July 01, 2015, 05:13 AM

Islam isn't the fastest growing religion in terms of percentage but in terms of numbers. There are religions which are growing far faster percentage wise but these tend to have followers in the hundreds, thousands or millions whereas islam has a billion and a half. Whether it's actually growing or not is up for debate. With the increasing non belief in muslim majority countries and the general spread of non religious views worldwide, plus the internet, there's no guarantee how many of the newer generations will be muslim in name only or outright ex-muslim. There has been little study including in the western world of the number of cultural muslims, agnostics, deists and atheists from an islamic background to get a more balanced sense of the claims.

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`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
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Reply #22 - July 01, 2015, 07:44 AM

Until freedom of religion reaches the muslim world, we will never know the true number of muslims around the globe. The more enlightened people become, the less likely they are to believe in superstitions, this holds true for muslims too.
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Reply #23 - July 06, 2015, 10:18 PM

It seems like from reading everyone's comment, the primary reason is fertility, punishment for apostasy and lack of education.
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Reply #24 - July 06, 2015, 10:20 PM

Quote from: Roberto40 on June 30, 2015, 10:10 AM
Annual growth in number of people

Bangladesh ~ 2 million
Egypt ~ 1.5 million
Iran ~ 1 million
Indonesia ~ 3 million
Pakitan ~ 3 million
Turkey ~ 1 million

Indonesia from 2011 to 2015 ~ Growth of 18 million people
Pakistan from 2010 to 2015 ~ Growth of 20 million people
Bangladesh from 2010 to 2015 ~ Growth of 10 million people

95% of these people are "muslims". Apostates are not accounted for.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/04/23/why-muslims-are-the-worlds-fastest-growing-religious-group/

"Fastest growing" never bothered me. I wouldn't be surprised if Islam in actuality is one of the "fastest declining" religions. Just look at the amount of apostates on facebook and twitter from muslim countries. Not to mention people like us, who live in the west. Many who just keep their mouth shut on

Im one of the few who keeps his mouth shut, especially because im around muslims 24/7; and from experience from one group, it can be really dangerous to openly admit im an atheist.
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Reply #25 - July 06, 2015, 10:24 PM

Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on July 01, 2015, 05:13 AM
Islam isn't the fastest growing religion in terms of percentage but in terms of numbers. There are religions which are growing far faster percentage wise but these tend to have followers in the hundreds, thousands or millions whereas islam has a billion and a half. Whether it's actually growing or not is up for debate. With the increasing non belief in muslim majority countries and the general spread of non religious views worldwide, plus the internet, there's no guarantee how many of the newer generations will be muslim in name only or outright ex-muslim. There has been little study including in the western world of the number of cultural muslims, agnostics, deists and atheists from an islamic background to get a more balanced sense of the claims.

You have to also remember the penalty for apostasy, no sane person would just come out and reveal that they've left islam, unless they want the death penalty on them. In addition to this the western muslims center science around their religion; and because of their strong approach, fluent tone and educational background they seem to indoctrinate others rather easily; the western muslims are also very practical, going around and trying to grab as many non-muslims as they can; using confirmation bias to make the quran sound factual; using biased philosophy to convince people the quran is the truth; and because the western world wasnt/isnt used to such an approach they fall victim to it easily.
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Reply #26 - July 06, 2015, 10:25 PM

Quote from: Roberto40 on July 01, 2015, 07:44 AM
Until freedom of religion reaches the muslim world, we will never know the true number of muslims around the globe. The more enlightened people become, the less likely they are to believe in superstitions, this holds true for muslims too.

over 20 muslim nations have the penalty for apostasy as law; so people cant willingly admit if they've left islam, most are too afraid to even voice it.
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Reply #27 - July 07, 2015, 08:05 AM

Most people in the west don't know that much about islam anyway. The simple fact of the matter is that the majority of people don't convert to another religion. This has always been a small number unless forced at the point of a sword. Historically mass conversion to another faith came with conquest. Christianity would not be the biggest religion on Earth if it wasn't for the fact expanding empires claimed it as their own. We're living in an age where such things are largely of the past, and laws which guarantee the right to believe or disbelieve as you see fit will go hand in hand with people being easily able to look up arguments to any claims they have presented to them. Ultimately it does come down to birth rates for an increase in people self identifying as muslim but history shows that this actually means little. Some of the most religious countries of the past are today some of the least religious.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #28 - July 07, 2015, 05:51 PM

Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on July 07, 2015, 08:05 AM
Most people in the west don't know that much about islam anyway. The simple fact of the matter is that the majority of people don't convert to another religion. This has always been a small number unless forced at the point of a sword. Historically mass conversion to another faith came with conquest. Christianity would not be the biggest religion on Earth if it wasn't for the fact expanding empires claimed it as their own. We're living in an age where such things are largely of the past, and laws which guarantee the right to believe or disbelieve as you see fit will go hand in hand with people being easily able to look up arguments to any claims they have presented to them. Ultimately it does come down to birth rates for an increase in people self identifying as muslim but history shows that this actually means little. Some of the most religious countries of the past are today some of the least religious.

The Golden Age of Islam was the major cause of islams current growth and even that was done through conquest; and while i agree with laws which guarantee the right to believe or disbelieve as individuals see fit, 20 of the islamic nations clearly dont apply that law, otherwise the penalty for apostasy wouldnt exist.
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Reply #29 - July 07, 2015, 05:58 PM

They can have as many apostasy laws as they like, all that will do it drive non believers underground. It won't erase them. You also have to keep in mind just what a game changer the internet is.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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