There was a previous thread on this that managed to offend Klingschor a bit and Schizo a lot more, which was a shame, but it's worth looking at:
http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=28198.0This comment from allat on the old thread is maybe worth repeating:
I don't know Klingschor all that much, and can't speak for him. But here's what I have noticed in the last several years that I've been part of the Ex-Muslim movement (as an admin here, and as an active part of other Ex-Muslim groups too).
There has been a particular brand of anarcho-capitalist/libertarian dogma that has overtaken much of the 'atheist' movement and has coloured some/many of the people active in Ex-Muslim atheist movement too. (I'm talking about a US-style libertarianism that is pro imperialism, pro war, pro guns, pro capitalism, neo liberal etc. from where it gets its notions of individualized liberties which is a concept then applied on to religion and other things like sexuality and drug use). This seems to me to be an underlying assumption of the framework in which many/most of the 'new atheists' and the supposed 'leaders' of that movement have been operating. So, we're talking all the major players (almost all white men, except for Ayaan Hirsi Ali) that have become icons (in the somewhat religious sense) for many in the atheist movement.
This libertarian influence HAS pushed way too much of this movement to the right-wing. And I am not comfortable with it anymore. I have not been comfortable with the level of right-wing ideology that has been underpinning a lot of the atheists out there. There is little if ANY awareness or discussion about poverty, economic factors, racism, nationalism, colonialist legacies and ongoing capitalist exploitations, and other factors. The people in the 'atheist movement' who really can't see anything beyond religion as being a factor in anyone's behaviour are literally becoming as dogmatic as the most dogmatic believers (even if they're not as physically violent). Those factors ARE important and DO hold an ENORMOUS influence on how people process and apply religion in their lives. Yes transnational religious identity politics are a big factor, but they are not the only or even the biggest factor. If they were, why the hell was there no ISIS or Al-Qaeda or Taliban before 1950s? Yes Islamic empires existed. But anyone who really does not question why these extremist groups are happening NOW and getting WORSE now beyond "Oh it's just religion" is really really really deluded.
I am also sick and tired of mostly Ex-Muslims, but also atheists in general, whining and whining and whining about how the "LEFT" doesn't listen to us. How the "LEFT" doesn't help us, doesn't do this, doesn't do that....
1: THERE IS NO CENTRAL AUTHORITY ON THE LEFT. Who the hell are we whining about? The Guardian newspaper? Ok... BE SPECIFIC. The Guardian does NOT bloody represent the "LEFT", not outside the UK especially or even in the UK. It is only ONE paper and it does publish things critical of religion too. So I'd love it if we Ex-Muslims (and our allies) would stop acting and whining about 'THE LEFT" like some bogeyman that is united in some way and obeys some central authority. Yes there are people on "THE LEFT" who haven't given us all the attention we want for our cause. But generally, it's because either they are themselves totally self-involved and narcissistic, or, more often because:
2: NOBODY ON 'THE LEFT' OWES US A DAMN THING. The Left, as it is, has always been more concerned about CHANGE, about EXPLOITATION, about LABOUR, RACE, GENDER, etc. If all that we ever do is talk about religion, religion, religion and NOTHING else, why the hell do we expect people who are fighting battles on those other issues to give us all their attention? WHY don't WE talk about those other issues? WHY ARE WE ONE TRICK PONIES? We have the privilege of not having to worry about money, racism, etc. (Well, many of us I guess have those privileges, but not all of us). We all are mostly situated comfortably in the West. We don't have to worry about immigrating, being homeless, being targeted for gender or race crimes (not the way that many, many others in the world in many places ARE). So we talk a lot about religion. It's our hobby. Nothing wrong with that. But we are not bloody entitled to be the centre of people's attention if we NEVER engage with any topics that are outside of our privileged lives. If we only focus on religion and never on any other matters that people on "The Left" are engaging with, then we don't really have a lot of leg to stand and whine on, I'm sorry to say.
I think it's time for the Ex-Muslim movement to grow up. To join up with other Leftist causes and issues. To join up with progressive, secular Muslims. To stop behaving like throwing stones at this bogeyman "The Left" is somehow going to change anything. If we consider ourselves to be on the left of the political spectrum, let's remember what that means, get out of our self-pitying bubble, and start to live up to it.
....
To clarify: I am talking about those of us who are 'out' in any way or who are active online. I'm not expecting those Ex-Muslims living in dire situations to put themselves in jeopardy. I'm talking about those of us (and others in the 'atheist movement') privileged enough to be able to just talk about religion all day with strangers on the 'net or with people in our lives. Those of us who can speak up should really be speaking up about more than just religion all the time, IMO.
Topic: Is it the left that fails to oppose radical Islam