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Theme Changer

 Topic: Blown away

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  • Blown away
     Reply #60 - August 05, 2015, 08:06 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on August 05, 2015, 07:45 PM
    But why flogging?

    Does that seem a reasonable punishment?

    Of course I know why you defend it. It's because the Qur'an says it. So all discussion then must stop. Has it occured to you that the Qur'an is not the word of God? Did you watch the video I posted?


    Because that's what God chose. It could have been "fast for 30 days" or pay X amount of money or whatever. As believers we can discuss the merits of flogging such as a deterrent for others or something that makes you physically realise you've strayed from you beliefs. But at the end of the day we accept it whether we like it or don't.

    Yes, for me it is reasonable. For others it may not be and I'm fine with that as well. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, it's not for me to judge.
    My nasheed. Sing it with me!
  • Blown away
     Reply #61 - August 05, 2015, 08:07 PM
    Quote from: CallMeTed on August 05, 2015, 07:59 PM
    Really? Please do explain how it's not a process that involves scientific method/activity (take your pick as you seem wishy washy on your understanding of this).


    Quote from: CallMeTed on August 05, 2015, 07:00 PM
    OK so are you saying that if I observe my car on the drive using my eyes and can go and touch it then I can't be 100% certain that my car is not on my drive?


    There's nothing "wishy-washy" in my understanding. "Scientific method" is a necessary condition on science.

    You need to audit a philosophy of science 101 class, asap.

    Evidence based inferences are another necessary condition for scientific activity but they aren't sufficient. "Taking a look at my car and concluding that it's in my driveway" is science in the same way that "shaving my balls after I've observed that they are hairy" is science.

    You're defining "science" so loosely that your definition is subject to a plethora of reductio ad absurdums.

    Your example is irrelevant to the problem of induction because it makes no acceptable link between past and future events. Coupled with your self-selected sample size of one, your example is hysterically bad.
    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • Blown away
     Reply #62 - August 05, 2015, 08:10 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on August 05, 2015, 07:56 PM
    So how do you know the Qur'an is God's word?


    So far it all makes sense. There are some things in there that I don't understand but there's nothing in there that makes me doubt it. The Quran asks me to use science and logic and reasoning to determine whether it's from God. It doesn't say blindly follow it. It also confirms the Bible.
    My nasheed. Sing it with me!
  • Blown away
     Reply #63 - August 05, 2015, 08:13 PM
    Are you a convert?
  • Blown away
     Reply #64 - August 05, 2015, 08:15 PM
    Quote from: Qtian on August 05, 2015, 08:07 PM
    You need to audit a philosophy of science 101 class, asap. Evidence based inferences are only a necessary condition for science, they aren't sufficient. "Taking a look at my car and concluding that it's in my driveway" is science in the same way that "shaving my balls after I've observed that they are hairy" is science.

    You're defining "science" so loosely that your definition is subject to a plethora of reductio ad absurdums.

    Your example is irrelevant to the problem of induction because it seeks to make no link between the past and future.


    Maybe this explains why you are so confused about God and religion. I suggest you snap out of it and come back to reality. You're alive, you eat, breathe, see, touch, have feelings, etc. You need to remind yourself what is real and what isn't. Otherwise I can see you even denying this reality.
    My nasheed. Sing it with me!
  • Blown away
     Reply #65 - August 05, 2015, 08:17 PM
    Quote from: CallMeTed on August 05, 2015, 08:06 PM
    Yes, for me it is reasonable. For others it may not be and I'm fine with that as well. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, it's not for me to judge.


    OK, so you find lashing adulterers a reasonable punishment for not being consistent to one's beliefs.

    Do you think hitting your wife is a reasonable way to solve marital problems?

    Do you think chopping hand & foot on opposite sides is the right way to treat prisoners of war (Qur'an 5:33)

    Do you think owing slaves is reasonable?

    Do you think eternally torturing people over and over again without end is a reasonable punishment for not believing in a God who keeps himself hidden and left at the very least reasonable doubt about his existence?
  • Blown away
     Reply #66 - August 05, 2015, 08:18 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on August 05, 2015, 07:59 PM
    I am an Agnostic Muslim.


    Sorry there's no such thing. Muslim means someone who submits their will to God. It's like saying you're an Atheist Believer. You're simply agnostic.
    My nasheed. Sing it with me!
  • Blown away
     Reply #67 - August 05, 2015, 08:20 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on August 05, 2015, 08:13 PM
    Are you a convert?


    Yes. I was an idol worshipper, then an atheist and now a believer in God and trying my best to follow the Quran.
    My nasheed. Sing it with me!
  • Blown away
     Reply #68 - August 05, 2015, 08:20 PM
    Quote from: CallMeTed on August 05, 2015, 08:15 PM
    Maybe this explains why you are so confused about God and religion. I suggest you snap out of it and come back to reality. You're alive, you eat, breathe, see, touch, have feelings, etc. You need to remind yourself what is real and what isn't. Otherwise I can see you even denying this reality.


    Translation: "I CallMeTed, have no clue. So I'm just going to post some unrelated bollocks."

    Not believing in X doesn't entail that I am confused about X. Sigh. Must I teach you basic logic,too?

    Cute character assessment...when did you become our local psychiatrist?



    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • Blown away
     Reply #69 - August 05, 2015, 08:25 PM
    Quote from: CallMeTed on August 05, 2015, 08:18 PM
    Sorry there's no such thing.


    Sorry, yes there is  Smiley
  • Blown away
     Reply #70 - August 05, 2015, 08:26 PM
    And I still think you're a troll.

    Not sure what your game is, but I'm outta here - live long and prosper.
  • Blown away
     Reply #71 - August 05, 2015, 08:32 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on August 05, 2015, 08:17 PM
    OK, so you find lashing adulterers a reasonable punishment for not being consistent to one's beliefs.

    Do you think hitting your wife is a reasonable way to solve marital problems?

    Do you think chopping hand & foot on opposite sides is the right way to treat prisoners of war (Qur'an 5:33)

    Do you think owing slaves is reasonable?

    Do you think eternally torturing people over and over again without end is a reasonable punishment for not believing in a God who keeps himself hidden and left at the very least reasonable doubt about his existence?


    I don't think you understand belief in God or maybe you don't understand the concept of God. When you believe in God you choose to accept his commands whether you like them or not. Some of God's commands are tough, they're going to cause you pain and suffering, financial loss, etc. They're meant to be tough. This life is meant to be tough for the most of us.

    God is all powerful, all knowing. You should ponder on what this means.

    I've already answered your first 2 questions. Why do you keep asking them?

    You have misunderstood the context of Quran 5:33. If you read properly it applies at the time of revelation when the messenger is there following the commands of God. It's not a command that applies once the messenger of God is no longer there.
    My nasheed. Sing it with me!
  • Blown away
     Reply #72 - August 05, 2015, 08:50 PM
    Invoking religion pluralism on to religions which are not plural is mind boggling. Islam's submission to God is not the same as Christianity's since the concept of God has a major fundamental difference. There is no Trinity form of Christianity that submits to the strict singular God of Islam. Trinity Christianity directly challenges Islams concept of God. You merely check the hits and ignore the misses under the misguided attempt at parallelism.

    You need to supply evidence of context for 5:33. Merely claiming a context is worthless. Let me provide an example of how worthless it is. Islam is only relevant to the time of the Prophet. After this it is not to be followed. You made a mistake in your understanding of Islam's relevant context.  whistling2

    Ted is probably a troll but I couldn't resist  Cheesy
  • Blown away
     Reply #73 - August 05, 2015, 09:02 PM
    Quote from: Qtian on August 05, 2015, 08:20 PM
    Translation: "I CallMeTed, have no clue. So I'm just going to post some unrelated bollocks."

    Not believing in X doesn't entail that I am confused about X. Sigh. Must I teach you basic logic,too?

    Cute character assessment...when did you become our local psychiatrist?





     
    LMAO
  • Blown away
     Reply #74 - August 05, 2015, 09:03 PM
    King Troll
  • Blown away
     Reply #75 - August 05, 2015, 09:09 PM

    I get the feeling that the so called ex-Muslims are not really interested in wanting to know the truth. That's fine. Each to their own way.

    Peace and best wishes to all of you.
    My nasheed. Sing it with me!
  • Blown away
     Reply #76 - August 05, 2015, 09:12 PM
    Quote
    I get the feeling that the so called ex-Muslims are not really interested in wanting to know the truth. That's fine. Each to their own way.


    When all else fails, ad hominem to the rescue... amirite??


    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • Blown away
     Reply #77 - August 05, 2015, 09:18 PM
    Nothing like generalizations and fallacies when in doubt.

     The issue is TED you are claiming to know the truth but have not demonstrated it. Empty claims can be dismissed without issue. So all you are really doing is pouting that people do not take your empty claims seriously, fail to meet even a limited burden of proof or provide argumentation then process to project your own failures on to others as a cop-out. Also you are avoiding addressing what people have posted. You bring up one topic then move on to the next ignoring responses. You are parroting a script rather then engaging anyone or their arguments.
  • Blown away
     Reply #78 - August 05, 2015, 09:29 PM
    Quote from: bogart
    The issue is TED you are claiming to know the truth


    That's a pretty accurate assessment.
    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • Blown away
     Reply #79 - August 05, 2015, 09:42 PM

    What's wrong with claiming to know the truth?
    My nasheed. Sing it with me!
  • Blown away
     Reply #80 - August 05, 2015, 09:43 PM
    Just the one line or the whole statement?
  • Blown away
     Reply #81 - August 05, 2015, 09:44 PM
    Quote from: CallMeTed on August 05, 2015, 09:42 PM
    What's wrong with claiming to know the truth?


    Claiming is one thing, proving is another. I could equally claim to know the truth which contradicts your own claim. We are left with two mutually exclusive claims to truth. More than basic claims are required to resolve this problem.
  • Blown away
     Reply #82 - August 05, 2015, 09:52 PM
    Quote from: CallMeTed on August 05, 2015, 09:42 PM
    What's wrong with claiming to know the truth?


    To say nothing of your actual argumentation skills, the "the" part, specifically. It gives the impression of truth being absolute. Arguably, mathematics is the subject where certainty is most at home. Even mathematics is subject to epistemic limits such as Gödel's incompleteness and the Münchhausen trilemma. For all intents and purposes, "absolute" isn't a prefix that we attach to "truth".
    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • Blown away
     Reply #83 - August 05, 2015, 09:56 PM
    I've answered all the questions that were asked. No one asked what the scientific evidence was that makes me certain. Actually, as usual, got into a silly debate about what science is. then someone asked a silly question about the Trinity which is easily googleable.

    Problem is that people are just not interested in wanting to know the truth. This includes many believers. They'd rather spend their time discussing vain things. They don't want true happiness they want the tiny, temporary happiness of this world/life.
    My nasheed. Sing it with me!
  • Blown away
     Reply #84 - August 05, 2015, 10:03 PM
    Quote
    Problem is that people are just not interested in wanting to know the truth. This includes many believers. They'd rather spend their time discussing vain things. They don't want true happiness they want the tiny, temporary happiness of this world/life.


    This is my normal response to non-arguments:

    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • Blown away
     Reply #85 - August 05, 2015, 10:05 PM
    Quote from: Qtian on August 05, 2015, 09:52 PM
    To say nothing of your actual argumentation skills, the "the" part, specifically. Arguably, mathematics is the subject where certainty is most at home. Even mathematics is subject to epistemic limits such as Gödel's incompleteness and the Münchhausen trilemma. For all intents and purposes, "absolute truth" is a misnomer.


    Tell me this. Is mathematics real or simply a logical concept? How do you verify mathematics? Is it via real world observations or simply logical reasoning? If it's logical reasoning is that not based off the real world you observe?

    Like I said before. You need to return to the real world, to this reality, rather than delve into concepts which are pretty much irrelevant to your well being.
    My nasheed. Sing it with me!
  • Blown away
     Reply #86 - August 05, 2015, 10:11 PM
    Quote
    Like I said before. You need to return to the real world, to this reality, rather than delve into concepts which are pretty much irrelevant to your well being.


    I find it funny when you try to talk about reality, Ted.

    It's like Inuits talking about The Caribbean.

    Like I said before, your ignorance of my character isn't an argument for anything but your own naivety.

    Quote
    Tell me this. Is mathematics real or simply a logical concept? How do you verify mathematics? Is it via real world observations or simply logical reasoning? If it's logical reasoning is that not based off the real world you observe?


    Mathematics cannot be proven empirically. Mathematics is a priori. Although the real world can influence mathematics-Newton is a great example. However, no amount of empirical evidence can overturn a mathematical truth. How much mathematics can you understand? If I were to prove that 1+1=2 via the peano axioms, would you be able to comprehend it?

    There is no "one logic". Logic comes in the forms of logics. Classical logic and paraconsistent logics are worlds apart.  Logics are languages. All languages have limitations. Logic isn't a universal truth machine.

    Mathematics is far more than just formal systems of logical inference, reverse mathematics shows that.

     

    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • Blown away
     Reply #87 - August 05, 2015, 10:16 PM
    With all respect to him, Ted sounds like a brand new convert to Islam.. His views may evolve over time, doesn't take too long.
  • Blown away
     Reply #88 - August 05, 2015, 10:19 PM
    Quote from: CallMeTed on August 05, 2015, 09:56 PM
    They'd rather spend their time discussing vain things. They don't want true happiness they want the tiny, temporary happiness of this world/life.


    I think the temporariness of everything is what makes us human. We wouldnt be human anymore if we were to live in a constant state of bliss, without anything to stimulate us, without experiencing emotions, without changing or growing or accumulating knowledge.

    We wouldnt have goals but we would just sit under a tree doing nothing.

    That would be so boring. I prefer this life and its temporariness that let me experience so many thing than an eternal boring bliss...


  • Blown away
     Reply #89 - August 05, 2015, 11:03 PM
    edit
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