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Theme Changer

 Topic: Ashley Madison FUN PIT!

 (Read 32073 times)
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  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #120 - August 24, 2015, 11:57 PM

    What is with people not check their banks and CC statements. I think this story highlighted a larger issue, finical responsibility!  finmad
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #121 - August 25, 2015, 12:10 AM

    Is that what the fascination is here, though? Are we giddy because someone broke a contract? Would this be as fun if it were a list of people who broke their lease, cellphone plan, and so on?

    I mean, whatever, do you, but I don't think it's fair to act like this is all it's about and that there's not anything about perceptions of sexuality and marriage involved whatsoever. I read the point of his (her?) posts to be more against the very public involvement of people not on either side of said contract, which is something I can agree with, but I find a "they just broke a contract and we're holding them accountable, what's the big deal" approach to the phenomenon that we're witnessing (that is a bunch of people excitedly searching the information of anyone they can think of to see if they used this site for cheating) just short of honest.


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/11657765/Gossiping-is-what-makes-us-human-says-Oxford-professor.html

    From an evolutionary psychology standpoint, yes. It is what we're interested in. Reading or talking about this gossip lets us know "I cannot trust this guy if he breaks his promises." Which is an important message for our brains to get, because it will make us question, even just a tiny bit, everything he says about anything else. This skepticism about people is a very important part of our evolutionary psychology because it is what allows us to live in large groups.

    We naturally want to trust other people, we naturally give everyone the benefit of the doubt, because there are so many facets of life in which this is vital. When you go to the grocery store, you assume that the people there are selling you food and not poison, because you need to assume that otherwise you'll go back to living in the forest and only eating what you collect. When you get behind the wheel of a car, you assume that other people know to stop at red lights and go at green lights, because otherwise, you won't be able to go anywhere because you'll have to stop at each intersection to make sure no one is running the light. When you see a doctor, you assume that he is not lying about his credentials, because otherwise you'd have to research each doctor's school of medicine and verify they did attend. And so on.

    That's why when someone is breaking the rules, when someone is being deliberately deceptive, we share the information, because we need to: if no one knows who is breaking the rules and who isn't, we can't trust anyone and society will break down.

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #122 - August 25, 2015, 12:33 AM

    So what do we need to trust Hamza Tortoise for ...in the first place?

    Will society breakdown because of his personal business? Lol
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #123 - August 25, 2015, 12:49 AM

    ...


    No, I get what you're saying. We like drama. Nothing new under the sun. But there's clearly levels of interest, and a list of people who skipped out on their gym membership early is not going to generate as much interest as a list of adulterers, and that goes back to what Aife was trying to say. And your response seemed to me like it was totally discrediting that aspect of it and making it seem like it's all about breakin' contracts, and, again, I find that dishonest.

    I also find a lot of your post to be sort of glorifying the gossip and the shaming, which, again, if you want to just say, "Yeah, this is fun to me, I'm not sympathetic," then that's fine, there's probably people more deserving of your sympathy, but there's something odorous to me about attempts to make it seem like we're doing humanity a favor here and that this is a really good thing for society. We're rubbernecking as we pass a few car crashes.

    There's a lot of human behavior that you can water down by saying, "well, from an evolutionary standpoint...," including cheating, interestingly enough. We like drama, we like seeing bad stuff happen to people we don't like. Cool. That's human, I can forgive that. But let's be honest. That's what it is. We're not saving society by spelunking the Ashley Madison hack list.
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #124 - August 25, 2015, 01:05 AM

    No, I get what you're saying. We like drama. Nothing new under the sun. But there's clearly levels of interest, and a list of people who skipped out on their gym membership early is not going to generate as much interest as a list of adulterers, and that goes back to what Aife was trying to say. And your response seemed to me like it was totally discrediting that aspect of it and making it seem like it's all about breakin' contracts, and, again, I find that dishonest.

    I also find a lot of your post to be sort of glorifying the gossip and the shaming, which, again, if you want to just say, "Yeah, this is fun to me, I'm not sympathetic," then that's fine, there's probably people more deserving of your sympathy, but there's something odorous to me about attempts to make it seem like we're doing humanity a favor here and that this is a really good thing for society. We're rubbernecking as we pass a few car crashes.

    There's a lot of human behavior that you can water down by saying, "well, from an evolutionary standpoint...," including cheating, interestingly enough. We like drama, we like seeing bad stuff happen to people we don't like. Cool. That's human, I can forgive that. But let's be honest. That's what it is. We're not saving society by spelunking the Ashley Madison hack list.


    This ties in with this question:

    So what do we need to trust Hamza Tortoise for ...in the first place?



    With both him and Josh Duggar, the thing they are making their money from is peddling religion, which is a lot like selling snake oil except you don't need to produce a physical product and don't need to answer any questions about your claims if your product fails tests. His job, the thing he makes his money from, is that he is a salesman, and his only real-world product is his personal credibility. So people who accept his personal credibility buy his larger claims, his God claims, and that is his source of revenue. That is why it is an issue that his personal credibility is a faulty product.

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #125 - August 25, 2015, 01:19 AM

    Personally, I think there's a certain amount of insecurity among the crowd who place the "monogamy as contract" on the sort of pedestal it's enjoyed for a while now. It's something that's as familiar as the wallpaper, but that we all have a sneaking suspicion hides a significant amount of rot, which over time becomes increasingly apparent and harder to ignore. I'm not really singling out anyone when I make this observation, but I do think it's quite clear this is why it gets such a strong reaction.

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #126 - August 25, 2015, 01:21 AM

    This ties in with this question: [...]


    Nope. It's been said a bunch of times on this thread, in fact: it's an old story. No one is surprised. The anti-gay preacher who turns out to be just about the gayest dude you'll ever meet doesn't dismantle his religion when he gets caught. Hamza Tzortzis isn't going to dismantle Islam or even his style of Islam when he gets caught. To the followers, this isn't a flaw in the ideology. This is a flaw in the man. And another man is going to come and replace him and do the same thing if it comes to that.

    This isn't how you prompt change and critical thinking to combat these ideologies. This isn't activism, this isn't community service. It's masturbatory. And, again, that's fine, but let's be real.
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #127 - August 25, 2015, 01:23 AM

    Quote
    ...
    Now we can exclusively reveal that Mr Tzortzis’s account, which listed him as an “Attached Male Seeking Female” including sexual preferences involving “Cuddling”, “Receiving Oral Sex” and “Sensual Massage.”

    The account was created on 22 October 2014, directly after Mr Tzortzis’s Hajj (pilgrimage) to Mecca, as he stated in his Facebook post. This coincided precisely with a speaking tour of Australia that Mr Tzortzis was involved with, as advertised by his website. On 22 October, he was due to speak to the Muslim Student Association of New South Wales at the University of Western Sydney. The IP address of the user that signed up for Ashley Madison came from Sydney:

    (Clicky for piccy!)

    The IP address that the Ashley Madison account was created from emanated from Sydney, where Mr Tzortzis was giving a speech

    But the claim that Mr Tzortzis never knew about the account has been called into question by the fact that his own, working e-mail address listed on numerous slideshows and presentations by Mr Tzortzis was the one used to sign up to the service...
    ...

    The postcodes used on the account also link to one address in North London, and one address in Luton. Mr Tzortzis and his family members are registered on the Electoral Roll at the North London address, and his business, Tzortzis Consulting Ltd, is registered at the Luton address, while the company lists Mr Andreas Tzortzis, his name before he converted to Islam, as the company’s director.

    (Clicky for piccy!)

    Tzortzis’s pre-conversion to Islam name is listed on the Company which has an address linked to the Ashley Madison account

    Again, this is publicly available information, and it is certainly a possibility that someone conducted a lot of research into Mr Tzortzis, even following him to his precise location in Sydney, Australia to set up the account. But that would also rely on the notion that whomever Mr Tzortzis believes did this also knew that the entire Ashley Madison database would be released, just to get at him.
    ...

    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/08/24/exclusive-islamist-hamza-tzortziss-ashley-madison-full-account-details-revealed/

    "Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well."
    - Robert Louis Stevenson
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #128 - August 25, 2015, 01:39 AM

    Quote
    ...
    The person who opened the account used a credit card registered to Andreas Tzortzis. To achieve this they would need to know his real name (readily available), home address (readily available at CompaniesHouse), his full credit card number, card expiry date, and the 3 digit security number on the back of the card. In addition to this it is possible the card issuer would have demanded confirmation this was not fraud by requesting the user enter Hamza's online banking password; this is a pretty standard security feature when using your card in an unexpected way or from an unusual location (the transaction was executed from Australia).

    The first payment of £54 was issued to the site on the 22nd of October 2014. This would have been the initial membership fee. There were eight subsequence charges for £15 each taken on approximately the same date of each subsequent month, totalling £174 over 9 months.
    From this payment information it is possible to assertain the following additional information.

    1] The membership number of the account (99904794).
    2] The email address used to sign up to the site (A_Tzortzis@yahoo.com).
    3] The IP address from which the payment was made (119.17.35.98).

    Again, the email address is public information. It is possible that Hamza doesn't check this email address often (or at all), it is very likely an old email address as it does not include any indication of his chosen Muslim name "Hamza". However, Hamza certainly has used this email address since becoming a Muslim, for example, a quick Google search reveals content associated with this address from around 2008...but (it seems) nothing recently.

    The interesting data here is the IP address. A quick IP -> Geo Location lookup shows it is in Australia. Hamza's public statement on FaceBook (now deleted) stated that £54 had been charged to his card while he was in Australia, and concluded that is where the account was opened from. The server time given for the account creation is 10:09 am, and the last time the account was modified was the same day at 11:43 am. As I don't know the time zone of the server I cannot check what time it would have been in Australia. This information could prove useful if anyone can answer.
    ...

    http://therationaliser.blogspot.co.uk/2015/08/what-we-know-about-hamza-tzortzis-and.html

    "Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well."
    - Robert Louis Stevenson
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #129 - August 25, 2015, 01:48 AM

    toor was right to say that the evidence we have is circumstantial, but I find it hard to believe that these are all just coincidences, though it is possible.

    "Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well."
    - Robert Louis Stevenson
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #130 - August 25, 2015, 01:53 AM

    Personally, I think there's a certain amount of insecurity among the crowd who place the "monogamy as contract" on the sort of pedestal it's enjoyed for a while now. It's something that's as familiar as the wallpaper, but that we all have a sneaking suspicion hides a significant amount of rot, which over time becomes increasingly apparent and harder to ignore. I'm not really singling out anyone when I make this observation, but I do think it's quite clear this is why it gets such a strong reaction.


    A contract is used to guarantee services, plans, etc. It is by definition saying that person A does not trust person B enough to provide whatever without a legal method for recovering loss or recuperate losses by other means. "Sign this, I do not trust your word"
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #131 - August 25, 2015, 02:24 AM

    The Rationalizer was spot on about the two addresses. When committing fraud, you use the information at hand. You don't dig to support a background for the identity unless it is to get approved/enter. He was already in with the card info. He didn't need to look up an address history for the preferences. The inactivity of the account also is not typical of fraudulent fronts.
    So this does not fit a pattern for fraud.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #132 - August 25, 2015, 10:07 AM

    This isn't how you prompt change and critical thinking to combat these ideologies. This isn't activism, this isn't community service. It's masturbatory. And, again, that's fine, but let's be real.


    Allahu Akbar!!
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #133 - August 25, 2015, 10:16 AM

    Lua, you’re spot on. This is laughing at someone else’s misery regardless of whether he’s lying or not. If I say lying is a Big Sin and then I get caught lying, what does that do to the normative status of lying? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. If anything, this means I’m susceptible to lying like anyone else; it doesn’t, however, mean I deep down think and believe lying is okay. And it makes me a human, trying to live up to what I believe to be right but not always successfully, and trying to avoid the things which I believe to be wrong but not always able to — particularly, things for which I have weakness or they're my delectation.

    This childish pointing and laughing is not very different from what my former Muslim friends do when they gloat over my post-Islam depression as a way to argue their case with me. I am depressed, they tell me, because I have gone astray from the truth. Eat seven Ajwa dates and spit Koranic verses over your head and you should never again need your Mirtazapine.

    Not very long ago, I saw Hassan politely pointing out something similar to Yeezevee when he played the man, not the ball; calling Hamza an emotional wreck for crying over his parents not being Muslim. This was pointing at him as a person, at his misery and laughing. It’s so contemptibly cheap.

    As you, lua, say, let’s call a spade a spade. And there are other possibilities here. Suppose he was on the website to marry Kitabiyat. This is permissible within his faith (so long as his current wife didn't make it an exclusionary term) and doesn't automatically render him a philanderer. I thought only in rough trades like politics that ‘guilt by association’ and ‘character assassination’ worked.
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #134 - August 25, 2015, 10:23 AM

    Hassan 001_wub

    And now I'll pass it on: Allahu Akbar! Whabbist, wonderfully put. Your entire post is something I think we should all keep in mind going forward, well after this Hamza thing blows over.
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #135 - August 25, 2015, 10:26 AM

    Nope. It's been said a bunch of times on this thread, in fact: it's an old story. No one is surprised. The anti-gay preacher who turns out to be just about the gayest dude you'll ever meet doesn't dismantle his religion when he gets caught. Hamza Tzortzis isn't going to dismantle Islam or even his style of Islam when he gets caught. To the followers, this isn't a flaw in the ideology. This is a flaw in the man. And another man is going to come and replace him and do the same thing if it comes to that.

    This isn't how you prompt change and critical thinking to combat these ideologies. This isn't activism, this isn't community service. It's masturbatory. And, again, that's fine, but let's be real.


    It's possible I'm doing it because I get joy out of it, but I don't think that puritanical control of sex is really my primary motivation. I mean, I am the most asexual-ist kind of asexual, I think we should use genetic engineering to manufacture a species without genders or sexuality (or indeed sexual organs) and move reproduction outside the human body into baby incubation vats, although I realize that this will do nothing about the people who are already alive, so I kinda just have an apathetic acceptance that most people will have sex lives and I can't do anything about it. I'm not for people having sex within marriage any more than I am for people having sex outside of marriage.

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #136 - August 25, 2015, 10:27 AM

    ...............This isn't how you prompt change and critical thinking to combat these ideologies. This isn't activism, this isn't community service. It's masturbatory. And, again, that's fine, but let's be real.


    Hu! what? what the hell? what is wrong with masturbation?

     Didn't you do it?? didn't I do it? didn't every on this forum do it?

    Guys don't lie to me.. I have your posts in the hard disk...

    So Is it OK if I do it  and  if you did it.. but we don't want other kids to do Masterbation ??.    finmad

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #137 - August 25, 2015, 10:29 AM

    Lua, you’re spot on. This is laughing at someone else’s misery regardless of whether he’s lying or not. If I say lying is a Big Sin and then I get caught lying, what does that do to the normative status of lying? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. If anything, this means I’m susceptible to lying like anyone else; it doesn’t, however, mean I deep down think and believe lying is okay. And it makes me a human, trying to live up to what I believe to be right but not always successfully, and trying to avoid the things which I believe to be wrong but not always able to — particularly, things for which I have weakness or they're my delectation.

    This childish pointing and laughing is not very different from what my former Muslim friends do when they gloat over my post-Islam depression as a way to argue their case with me. I am depressed, they tell me, because I have gone astray from the truth. Eat seven Ajwa dates and spit Koranic verses over your head and you should never again need your Mirtazapine.

    Not very long ago, I saw Hassan politely pointing out something similar to Yeezevee when he played the man, not the ball; calling Hamza an emotional wreck for crying over his parents not being Muslim. This was pointing at him as a person, at his misery and laughing. It’s so contemptibly cheap.

    As you, lua, say, let’s call a spade a spade. And there are other possibilities here. Suppose he was on the website to marry Kitabiyat. This is permissible within his faith (so long as his current wife didn't make it an exclusionary term) and doesn't automatically render him a philanderer. I thought only in rough trades like politics that ‘guilt by association’ and ‘character assassination’ worked.


    Very well said indeed Wahhabist.
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #138 - August 25, 2015, 10:35 AM

    About genes, here: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/23/ashley-madison-men-sex-women-dating-adultery Barbara Ellen’s telling me something sexist but on the opposite side. Something I as a male know very well. That I'm stupid, desperate to get laid, and are prepared to go to insane lengths to get sex. All of this it appears because I heed the call of biology, that for me, it's about quantity, not quality - the more women I pass my genes through the better, and the more children I have the better for my immortality seeking ego. Falling in love, thus, is a trick played on me by biology in the same way that the immediate goal from having sex is orgasmic pleasure when, in actuality, it is the reward I'm constituted to collect from spitting my seed, thereby going on spitting it and it's for this that I never completely run out of seed.
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #139 - August 25, 2015, 10:37 AM

    It's possible I'm doing it because I get joy out of it...


    Claiming otherwise would've been a much easier sell if you didn't name this thread "Ashley Madison FUN PIT!"

    And alright, I have heard your feelings about sex and sexuality. I hope we can at least agree that they're not exactly typical, and so maybe our discussion of this situation as it applies to humanity and psychology shouldn't be colored quite as much by our individual hangups about sex, whether it's more puritanical as aife suggested or an outright hatred of it.  

    Again, I can't force you to say or do anything, but it would be a hell of a lot more respectable to see someone being honest about how they are getting a kick out of this than to try to rationalize it five different ways to try to make themselves seem like a really good guy for it. But I'm going to leave it here. There's nothing more I could say or a better way to say it than what Whabbist contributed.
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #140 - August 25, 2015, 10:41 AM

    When committing fraud, you use the information at hand. You don't dig to support a background for the identity unless it is to get approved/enter. He was already in with the card info. He didn't need to look up an address history for the preferences. The inactivity of the account also is not typical of fraudulent fronts.
    So this does not fit a pattern for fraud.


    I agree with this.

    Hypothetically, if I were to run a character assasination against someone, I'd probably not attack head-on, but look for ways that are both indirect (but give the possibility of holding enough realistic detail) and maximally embarassing, and wait for such data to come to light. (Which, given the type of website Ashley Madison was, some might suggest that it was only a matter of time). If anything, I'd expect more such revelations to surface over time.

    But this is purely conjectural, of course, and fails Occam's razor (which, as a heuristic, can in the right circumstances be a useful obfuscator).

    I thought only in rough trades like politics that ‘guilt by association’ and ‘character assassination’ worked.


    I get the impression that this is precisely the sort of trade that Hamza plies, so.. no surprise that it may be quite effective here as well.
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #141 - August 25, 2015, 10:50 AM

    lua and Whabbist  .............wait..wait...  I will respond to you guys and why that fellow TORTILLA  deserves what people said in this thread....

    No one gives hoots what an average  muslim joe does with his life..   But when you  spew so-called moral froth from your mouth day in and day out  and do such things you better learn to take shit from others.

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #142 - August 25, 2015, 11:01 AM

    This ties in with this question:

    With both him and Josh Duggar, the thing they are making their money from is peddling religion, which is a lot like selling snake oil except you don't need to produce a physical product and don't need to answer any questions about your claims if your product fails tests. His job, the thing he makes his money from, is that he is a salesman, and his only real-world product is his personal credibility. So people who accept his personal credibility buy his larger claims, his God claims, and that is his source of revenue. That is why it is an issue that his personal credibility is a faulty product.


    How is that an issue?
    Why does it matter to you?
    You are not a muslim, IIRC?

    Everything we buy is sold to us like that anyway, with a bunch of lies here and there.
    So how's that an issue?
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #143 - August 25, 2015, 11:06 AM

    lua and Whabbist  .............wait..wait...  I will respond to you guys and why that fellow TORTILLA  deserves what people said in this thread....

    No one gives hoots what an average  muslim joe does with his life..   But when you  spew so-called moral froth from your mouth day in and day out  and do such things you better learn to take shit from others.


    Listen. I'm not exactly a huge Hamza Tzortzis fan, although I do owe him a drink because he helped push me off the fence into apostasy. And there's a lot of people who I'm worrying about right now, and Hamza isn't one of them.

    But I am worried about us. I am worried about the directions we're willing to take when we try to rise to meet these apologists. I am worried about our conduct, I am worried about us focusing too much on, as Whabbist put it, playing the man and not the ball. I am worried that the behavior of some more vocal ex-Muslims or our allies and associates is not becoming of us, is working against us, is making us look just as petty and vitriolic as some of these preachers.

    I came to CEMB and stuck around because there are some unspeakably brilliant individuals here who are well-versed, who are incredibly brave, whose words and activism I do genuinely believe has the power to prompt change on a larger scale and provide some sort of solidarity and security to individuals who wash ashore. People who can promote critical thinking and honest reflection. That is our best quality. That's why Tzortzis and his like are going to be irrelevant before long. Not because we all are ready to pounce on them when they stumble in their private lives. In the long run, that does nothing at best, makes us look petty at worst.
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #144 - August 25, 2015, 11:09 AM

    ....................................

    This childish pointing and laughing is not very different from what my former Muslim friends do when they gloat over my post-Islam depression as a way to argue their case with me. I am depressed, they tell me, because I have gone astray from the truth. Eat seven Ajwa dates and spit Koranic verses over your head and you should never again need your Mirtazapine.

    I will NOT agree with that..   No..Noooooooooo

    What Mr. Hamza did /doing after  this Ashley Madison FUN PIT  is entirely different from what Whabbist went through or going through on  that post-Islam depression..

    A simple thing Mr. Hamza to do is ACCEPT IT .. what he did is a mistake and ask for apologies from his wife and kid. and move on.. he can say in his blog what he did in Australia  was a mistake ...

    Quote
    ...........Not very long ago, I saw Hassan politely pointing out something similar to Yeezevee when he played the man, not the ball; calling Hamza an emotional wreck for crying over his parents not being Muslim. This was pointing at him as a person, at his misery and laughing. It’s so contemptibly cheap.................

     No I was not laughing., I WAS INSULTING THAT FELLOW.. for what he does ..

    With his actions and preachings he is in fact inducing fear to new converts of Islam that their parents are not Muslims .. That is NOT acceptable to me  and he has done much worse when he went to Pakistan to debate with Dr. Pervez Hoodbhoy.. In fact  Hoodbhoy  lost the job from LUMS because of this crying preacher

    I am sorry Whabbist,  I AM NOT  JESUS CHRIST.. the son of goddy god..   I am a human being.. So I write what I write and I do what I do ., If it is a mistake I will take the punishment .. I will not hide behind lies and I will not say "allahgod made me to do it"  



    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #145 - August 25, 2015, 11:12 AM

    Listen. I'm not exactly a huge Hamza Tzortzis fan, although I do owe him a drink because he helped push me off the fence into apostasy. ..........

    I am listening  lua.. I am reading lua.....

    How did he do that when his work is exactly opposite to what you said?

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #146 - August 25, 2015, 11:15 AM

    Recognized a lot of my dishonesty as an apologist in him and bolted shortly thereafter.
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #147 - August 25, 2015, 11:27 AM

    Recognized a lot of my dishonesty as an apologist in him and bolted shortly thereafter.

    For Islam He is NOT an apologist.,

    So if you recognised your  Honesty or dishonesty ( I don't know why you were dishonest you were NOT .,   you were/are  actually honest ) that credit will not go it him..

    That credit or debit is your's lua  Not his... .   anyway I am going to stop here..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #148 - August 25, 2015, 11:32 AM

    But I am worried about us. I am worried about the directions we're willing to take when we try to rise to meet these apologists. I am worried about our conduct, I am worried about us focusing too much on, as Whabbist put it, playing the man and not the ball. I am worried that the behavior of some more vocal ex-Muslims or our allies and associates is not becoming of us, is working against us, is making us look just as petty and vitriolic as some of these preachers.

    This is a very good point, but life gets crushingly earnest if one can't play the man from time to time.

    If I'm sure of one thing, it's that life isn't about being earnest. It's far too inherently trivial for that
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #149 - August 25, 2015, 11:56 AM

    It's possible I'm doing it because I get joy out of it, but I don't think that puritanical control of sex is really my primary motivation. I mean, I am the most asexual-ist kind of asexual, I think we should use genetic engineering to manufacture a species without genders or sexuality (or indeed sexual organs) and move reproduction outside the human body into baby incubation vats, although I realize that this will do nothing about the people who are already alive, so I kinda just have an apathetic acceptance that most people will have sex lives and I can't do anything about it. I'm not for people having sex within marriage any more than I am for people having sex outside of marriage.



    Gal you don't have to explain yourself, you are entitle to gloat about Hamza's misfortune on a forum, it won't effect his life in anyway lol.. i'm sure everyone here has had atleast one private moment where they sniggered at his public humiliation..  I don't agree with outing him but even i  had a little smile when i first heard the news, followed by disgust ofcourse ; ) 
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