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Theme Changer

 Topic: Ashley Madison FUN PIT!

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  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #150 - August 25, 2015, 12:08 PM
    But does it matter whether he accepts what he's done?

    Most people are too proud to accept their mistakes, I think he is not an exception.

    I dont know where this expectation is coming from tbh.
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #151 - August 25, 2015, 01:26 PM
    Quote from: suki on August 25, 2015, 11:56 AM

    Gal you don't have to explain yourself, you are entitle to gloat about Hamza's misfortune on a forum, it won't effect his life in anyway lol.. i'm sure everyone here has had atleast one private moment where they sniggered at his public humiliation..  I don't agree with outing him but even i  had a little smile when i first heard the news, followed by disgust ofcourse ; ) 



    I don't think anyone said she couldn't, and I'm pretty sure I made it fairly clear that it's her right and that's a pretty human reaction. I do object to attempts to make it seem grander than that and something that is helping people, though.

    Quote from: David on August 25, 2015, 11:32 AM
    This is a very good point, but life gets crushingly earnest if one can't play the man from time to time.

    If I'm sure of one thing, it's that life isn't about being earnest. It's far too inherently trivial for that


    I understand, but I also see some names I recognize constantly biting at the heels of these figures and giving them the opportunity to take the higher road and it makes me cringe for us. I think there's smarter and better ways. I think we can do better than this. At least we can try to more often, can't we?
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #152 - August 25, 2015, 02:32 PM
    Quote from: lua on August 25, 2015, 11:06 AM
    But I am worried about us. I am worried about the directions we're willing to take when we try to rise to meet these apologists. I am worried about our conduct, I am worried about us focusing too much on, as Whabbist put it, playing the man and not the ball. I am worried that the behavior of some more vocal ex-Muslims or our allies and associates is not becoming of us, is working against us, is making us look just as petty and vitriolic as some of these preachers.


    Could someone frame this and put it on the wall.
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #153 - August 25, 2015, 02:36 PM
    Quote from: David on August 25, 2015, 11:32 AM
    If I'm sure of one thing, it's that life isn't about being earnest. It's far too inherently trivial for that


    lol... perhaps.
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #154 - August 25, 2015, 02:38 PM
    Quote from: lua on August 25, 2015, 01:26 PM
    I think there's smarter and better ways. I think we can do better than this. At least we can try to more often, can't we?


    Yes, and a thousand time yes, Lua!
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #155 - August 25, 2015, 02:41 PM
    I was in Seattle some time ago, at a shop in a famed public market, surveying a few unique samples of glassware typically used to herbally induce a particular transcendent experience. Plastered on the edge of one of the shelves was a sign that read, in huge, bold letters, “SEX!” I glanced over at it.

    Underneath the bold proclamation, in smaller text, it said, “Now that we have your attention, please don’t lean on the shelves.”

    I chuckled a bit at the tactic. It worked.

    We human beings have this peculiar relationship with sex. We do it. We think about it. We crave it. We respond to it. And as is evident by the fact that even right now, this very thread is trending popularly on the “Who’s Online” page – we love treating it as the biggest and most shocking scandal imaginable. I’m sure there are all sorts of biological reasons for this, ones that folks way smarter than me would be able to explain eloquently.

    While the irony of a representative of a group that promotes gender segregation being caught in such a (human) scandal is not lost on me, I honestly think that spending one’s personal time in the pursuit of exposing his private affairs is an odd move, perhaps even a low blow.

    But if we are going to continue to make a big deal about this, as seems inevitable, then maybe our focus here should not be on the fact that Hamza may have been discreetly trying to have an affair. That is a problem for him and his wife to hash out. It’s not like we really trusted him here anyway. And it’s not like being open and honest about his sexuality in his community is really an option for him at this point; and this, perhaps more than anything, is the bigger issue.

    Because if this is true or not, it is certainly not the first case of potential adultery that a Muslim family has had to cope with, often with unhelpful advice from Islamic scriptures and scholars.

     If this is true or not, it is honestly not much more outrageous than the “halal” serial marriage and divorce patterns that many of the famous du’aat practice.

    If this is true or not, it might just shed some light on all the underground shit that really does happen in Muslim communities across the world as it relates to sexuality, the stuff that no one talks about but that most often only negatively affects those with vaginas.

    If there is a lesson to be learned here, then hopefully it is being learned by the sexually repressed youth that have put the dawah peddlers on some sort of righteous pedestal, while at the same time blaming and shaming themselves for their own normal human inclinations.

    If it’s true or not, hopefully it’s the perfect opportunity for us all to grow up a bit, move beyond the “scandal,” stop pretending like these dawah guys really are as special as they claim to be, and start having some honest conversations around the roles of sex and shame in Islam. Until then, there will always be some holier-than-thou charlatan out there keeping the front, while the nit and grit of real life goes unmentioned.  
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #156 - August 25, 2015, 02:54 PM
    Well, as long as his facebook post was still online, I could not see a single one of his followers call him out for saying that its permissible for muslim men to pursue a second wife, behind the first wife's back. Of course majority of the same followers also believe that polygamy is not a social ill and a muslim man does not need the consent of his first wife to take a second one.

    Worst part is that they have even brainwashed well educated young (muslim) women in the west, to believe that polygamy is liberating for women. Its all just very agitating. I'm unsure if Mr Tzortzis and his followers learnt a lesson here or not.
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #157 - August 25, 2015, 02:55 PM
    Maybe, just maybe, Hamza did make the account. But the only reason he made the account was to be able to contact other users of the site. He wanted to save them from the filth of fahisha. He saw all these people, wanting to commit zina, thus he was compelled to make an account, not to find women, but to  do dawah to the other site users. The only way he could do this was to sign up.
    "we stand firm calling to allah all the time,
    we let them know - bang! bang! - coz it's dawah time!"
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #158 - August 25, 2015, 03:01 PM
    Quote from: happymurtad on August 25, 2015, 02:41 PM
    ...If there is a lesson to be learned here, then hopefully it is being learned by the sexually repressed youth that have put the dawah peddlers on some sort of righteous pedestal, while at the same time blaming and shaming themselves for their own normal human inclinations...


    Excellent post HM.
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #159 - August 25, 2015, 03:02 PM
    Quote from: kephas on August 25, 2015, 02:55 PM
    Maybe, just maybe, Hamza did make the account. But the only reason he made the account was to be able to contact other users of the site. He wanted to save them from the filth of fahisha. He saw all these people, wanting to commit zina, thus he was compelled to make an account, not to find women, but to  do dawah to the other site users. The only way he could do this was to sign up.


     Allah knows best what really happened, but I do agree with what lua said here:

    Quote
    I am worried about us. I am worried about the directions we're willing to take when we try to rise to meet these apologists. I am worried about our conduct, I am worried about us focusing too much on, as Whabbist put it, playing the man and not the ball. I am worried that the behavior of some more vocal ex-Muslims or our allies and associates is not becoming of us, is working against us, is making us look just as petty and vitriolic as some of these preachers.

  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #160 - August 25, 2015, 06:05 PM
    Does anyone know where I can get the full AdultFriendFinder DB leak? I can only find email addresses + user names.
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #161 - August 25, 2015, 06:43 PM
    Why on earth do you care so much?
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #162 - August 25, 2015, 09:34 PM
    Quote from: kephas on August 25, 2015, 02:55 PM
    Maybe, just maybe, Hamza did make the account. But the only reason he made the account was to be able to contact other users of the site. He wanted to save them from the filth of fahisha. He saw all these people, wanting to commit zina, thus he was compelled to make an account, not to find women, but to  do dawah to the other site users. The only way he could do this was to sign up.


    His wife could have signed him up lol
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #163 - August 25, 2015, 09:43 PM
    Quote from: happymurtad on August 25, 2015, 06:43 PM
    Why on earth do you care so much?


    I'm not even going to dignify that with an answer.
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #164 - August 25, 2015, 10:21 PM
    What's your interest in this, and why are you happy to go hunting around in the personal data of others that doesn't belong to you?

    Both fair questions, I think.
    Before it gets too late, you will find escape.
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #165 - August 25, 2015, 10:31 PM
    Quote from: TheRationalizer on August 25, 2015, 09:43 PM
    I'm not even going to dignify that with an answer.


    Right. Because my question is the inexplicable thing here.  Roll Eyes

    Let's suppose there were a private place on the internet where you had personal information about you stored with the complete expectation of confidence, then supposed that information was somehow divulged.  Wouldn't you find it odd if someone who had an ideological disagreement with you spent their personal time tracking down your private information in order to offer you the chance to make a "public statement" about it.

    I'm sorry, but this is a low tactic.

  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #166 - August 25, 2015, 10:53 PM
    People on reddit have a different view.

    Quote
    wazzym 1 point 2 days ago
    lol but why would he write about it on his facebook paage? if he didn't none of us would have find out... or much less peopel would have find out.

    One of his Noodly Appendage(s), Verified Meetup Organiser 14 points 2 days ago
    Rationaliser privately told him, and gave him time to do a statement. Quite nice of Edward to do that for Hamza.

    agentvoidRetired 5 points 2 days ago
    Very honorable. Perhaps more than Hamza deserves but that just speaks volumes about Rationaliser. Feels like we don't live in such a principled world.


    https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/3hzuma/muslim_preacher_hamza_tsortis_gets_caught_in/
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #167 - August 25, 2015, 10:53 PM
    Quote from: lua on August 25, 2015, 01:26 PM
    I understand, but I also see some names I recognize constantly biting at the heels of these figures and giving them the opportunity to take the higher road and it makes me cringe for us. I think there's smarter and better ways. I think we can do better than this. At least we can try to more often, can't we?

    I was totally agreeing with you in this case, while also fighting for my right to bitch and gossip.

    Strangely enough, I usually bitch and gossip about people I've never met.
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #168 - August 25, 2015, 10:56 PM
    Honestly, I could give a toss.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #169 - August 25, 2015, 10:58 PM
    ^

    I don't really care if Hamza wants to get his dick wet on the side.
    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #170 - August 25, 2015, 10:59 PM
    It's one thing to privately comb through a dataset containing personal details (that has been obtained without the consent of the people within) and warn people that they're in said set - ethically not the strongest stance to take, but whatever - but to make the forum complicit in any way in the trafficking of such private information is out and out wrong.

    Quote from: TheRationalizer on August 25, 2015, 06:05 PM
    Does anyone know where I can get the full AdultFriendFinder DB leak? I can only find email addresses + user names.

    Before it gets too late, you will find escape.
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #171 - August 25, 2015, 11:10 PM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on August 25, 2015, 10:56 PM
    Honestly, I could give a toss.


    Neither could i, considering this kind of thing is common in the muslim world..  i mean his wife probably told him to look for another wife because she wants out, who cares, it's not even a big deal..
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #172 - August 25, 2015, 11:24 PM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on August 25, 2015, 10:53 PM
    People on reddit have a different view.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/3hzuma/muslim_preacher_hamza_tsortis_gets_caught_in/


    Right. Because the first thing I would want if my personal information was out there would be for someone to look out for me by asking me to make a public statement about it, then I'd love seeing them write a blog post about it. All in good faith.

    I'd also want them to go around a forum where people obviously disagree with me to find out if there are other ways of finding my personal information.

    #solidarity #sarcasm
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #173 - August 25, 2015, 11:25 PM
    Seriously, guys, we've got to be better than this.
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #174 - August 25, 2015, 11:31 PM
    The fact is that the data has been leaked. Someone is going to go through it eventually. Several news agencies have started going through it, they have private teams to handle this sort of stuff. Someone would have found out within a few days anyway; if it wasn't TheRationalizer, it would have been somebody else. At least TheRationalizer gave Hamza the chance to take it public himself instead of just going straight to the Associated Press with it. Other people would have just taken it straight to the press for a quick buck.
    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #175 - August 25, 2015, 11:39 PM
    Unfortunately, when the info's out there, it's out there. This stuff basically passes for journalism these days anyway, regardless how "above all it" we think we might be.

    Whoever wants to find it out and do something about it can, and whether its done on this forum or not is at the mod's discretion (haha, the unlucky sods).
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #176 - August 25, 2015, 11:41 PM
    Yes. Let the press do it. Let "someone else" do it. That's what we'd expect from them. That's their job. As I said earlier, we already know Hamza can't be trusted. Let's not board that sinking ship with him.

  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #177 - August 25, 2015, 11:44 PM
    I tend to side with David on the "earnestness" stuff in life, but then again I can rarely be bothered with too much in the way of effort anyway.
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #178 - August 25, 2015, 11:49 PM
    @ Hassan, you have to stop being so sweet to me. I need to still be able to lift my head. 001_wub

     
    Quote from: David on August 25, 2015, 10:53 PM
    I was totally agreeing with you in this case, while also fighting for my right to bitch and gossip.

    Strangely enough, I usually bitch and gossip about people I've never met.


     Cheesy Ah, gotcha.

    @ TheRationalizer: Look, I like you. I like a lot of your work. Namely debunking that truth about Islam video. That was phenomenal. And you've actually given me some nice advice on the forum before when I've been in need, so I hope you don't think it too forward of me to give you some advice, too.

    In my opinon, stuff like this makes you look bad. Stuff like this makes us look bad. It's way too much of a stretch for me to imagine you were doing Hamza a favor or that you only publicized your side of the story because you wanted to dispel rumors or misinformation. And I know the opposition at least feels like they're seeing straight through that, as well.

    A lot of the time that I've seen you posting on these people's facebook pages or something similar, you do seem to me to have a personal vendetta against them. If I've just so happened to be stopping by on these people's profiles the few times you left comments, I apologize. But if not, I know that tactics like this or relentlessly trying to engage someone who is not interested in arguing with us isn't good for the ex-Muslim movement as a whole. And forgive me, but I can't imagine it's that good for you, either.

    If you want to keep doing this, that's your call, I have no strong feelings either way, but yes: do keep it off the forum, please. But I am eager to hear from you when you get back to doing what you do best, which is opposing the ideas themselves. You did us an incredible service with some of that work in the past.

    Quote
    Someone would have found out within a few days anyway;


    While I get what you're saying and I am not exactly taking the stance that him searching for Tzortzis was objectively wrong, I do doubt that last bit. Honestly, Hamza isn't that big of a deal except in certain circles. The fact that Reddit (briefly) and a couple far-right blogs were the most interested in the story out of the few outlets that picked it up should be a good indication that Tzortzis wasn't high on the list of names to search outside of this particular community, if he was on a list at all.

    Also what HM said.
  • Ashley Madison FUN PIT!
     Reply #179 - August 25, 2015, 11:58 PM
    For those that this applies to, can I ask why you care? If you don't like him I can understand it coming up in conversation and having a chuckle at a holier-than-thou type having the pedestal wobble, and I admit when I looked at some of the facebook comments I found a few amusing, but the conversation would very quickly move on to another topic, like how beautiful my eyes are.

    The fact that this thread has reached six pages it incredible.

    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on August 25, 2015, 10:56 PM
    Honestly, I could give a toss.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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