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Theme Changer

 Topic: Waiting for the Islamic Reformation

 (Read 4386 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Waiting for the Islamic Reformation
     OP - September 22, 2015, 02:13 PM

    No matter what the proponents of Islam and Christianity believe, it is
    a challenge to call a faith peaceful when the good and evil receive
    sanction from the same scripture. Punishment for apostasy and
    homosexuality, curtailing the rights of women, and slavery - while the
    peaceful proponents of both faiths can identify religious tenets
    against them, there are others belonging to the same faith who can
    find religious authorization for them.

    The reality is that despite the humanist teachings of various faiths,
    they cannot be cut out of the political sphere of human society.

    The difference emerges when we consider how the medieval practices
    sanctioned by faiths are implemented by political authorities. Islam
    is the only religion which operates in countries as a theocracy. These
    nations, primarily in the Middle East, have dismal human rights
    records regarding minorities and the rights of women. There are 13
    Muslim nations where apostasy is punishable by death. Even in
    democratic Islamic nations like Pakistan, blasphemy is punishable by
    death. In nations like Saudi Arabia, there are serious constraints on
    the freedom of expression. Women can’t drive, and face restrictions
    over employment and ownership rights. The tribal politics perpetuated
    by the Islamic faith finds its most telling manifestation in ISIS,
    which aims to establish a Caliphate – a medieval Islamic state, to
    practice the same brand of religion the world is trying hard to subdue
    and sideline.

    Those who propose that Islam is a peaceful faith, one that ensures
    social justice, tend to espouse the virtue when protected under
    liberal democracies.

    In the discussion surrounding multiculturalism, what gets missed many
    times is that Muslims in liberal democracies are able to practice the
    positive elements of their faith under the protection of secular laws.
    These laws protect the same Muslims from the negative elements of
    their faith, something they cannot deny as multiple cases of
    discrimination and violence in Muslim nations are authorised by
    Islamic law.

    Consider female rights. If a woman is denied the right to seek out
    employment, if she is denied the right to choose whom to marry, what
    to wear, or when and how to move around in public, she can go to the
    police and achieve justice. But in a Muslim nation, where the Sharia
    is the law of the land, the authorities will be upholding the law in
    denying justice to the same woman.

    Similarly, if someone speaks up against a tenet of an ideology or
    faith in liberal democracies and receives threats, they can too seek
    protection of the law. In Muslim nations, the same authorities will be
    required by law to punish someone who criticises the Islamic faith.
    Regardless of their faith, being a citizen of a secular and democratic
    nation, a person is ensured human rights and social justice. Apathy
    can impede the implementation of laws and there are many cases to
    prove so, yet there are multiple avenues and authorities through which
    citizens can seek justice.

    The conundrum arises when peaceful Muslims claim that social justice
    ensured in secular democracies is also ensured by Islamic scripture.
    But those who commit human rights atrocities also back their actions
    with scripture.

    When the world witnesses how the word of God is implemented in Muslim
    states, it becomes difficult to understand the same faith as peaceful
    and progressive. Moreover, there is usually a ‘no comments’ retort
    when these peaceful Muslims in liberal democracies are asked if they
    if would ever live in the nations dominated by Islamic law.

    Christianity was once considered a dogmatic political power in the
    Western world.

    The Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades and the persecution of
    scientists are dark chapters in human history, where a faith was used
    to divide and suppress, exercising political power emanating from the
    high seat of the Pope, and evil cardinals. But Christianity witnessed
    a reformation from within, where communities challenged the dogma, and
    over time, established a spiritual, and to a great extent, genuine
    form of faith, creating a more direct link between Man and God.
    The reformation created the Protestant faith and a series of other
    Christian sects, which understood faith as a celebration of life and
    God, not submission to a higher authority.

    The contraction of religious authority in the West laid the foundation
    for the establishment of secular laws. As God stepped back during the
    establishment of nation states, enshrining civil rights in laws became
    the calling card of humanists and revolutionaries around the world.
    Issues like slavery, ban on abortion and punishment for homosexuality,
    which claim sanction from biblical scripture, have been weakened and
    almost wiped out, as God has taken a backseat, and humanist
    principles, universal rights, the human drive for freedom and secular
    doctrines continue to gain more legitimacy. They face challenges all
    the time when struggling to ensure rights to multiple communities, yet
    they gain new ground and achieve new feats everyday.

    This internal reformation in Christian societies had the effect of a
    spiritual overhaul in Christianity.

    Same sex rights, which is the new civil rights struggle of the 21st
    century, has been championed by traditional Catholic communities,
    namely Ireland voting unanimously in favour of same sex marriage, and
    even Pope Francis giving his blessing to same sex relationships,
    focusing on celebrating the universal human emotion of love. We
    seldom, if not never, see such a push towards universal human rights
    in Islamic nations or from Muslim leaders.

    If the crusades were on today, Christianity would have a nefarious
    image in the world, but human society has come a long way in achieving
    and continuing the struggle for human rights, maintaining a strong
    winning streak.

    Religious-political authorities have relatively moved ahead with the
    times erasing restrictions on civil liberties, while in the Middle
    East these restrictions are alive and kicking as they are sanctioned
    by Islamic scripture. We must realise that elements like the Klu Klux
    Clan and White Supremacist groups, which draw their ideology from
    scripture, cannot operate with impunity in the West, yet the world
    they imagine does exist in some regards in the Middle East and North
    Africa.

    Islam needs its own Reformation to curtail the dogma that has
    tarnished the image of the faith in the 21st century.

    The Middle East witnessed an Arab spring, calling for an end to
    dictatorships, but the world is waiting for an Arab spring for civil
    liberties to sweep the Middle East. Islamic societies must move ahead
    with the rest of the world, so theocracies and medieval ideas do not
    continue to restrict the progress of human development across the
    world.
  • Waiting for the Islamic Reformation
     Reply #1 - September 22, 2015, 02:45 PM

    Care to make a thread in introductions?

    It was the enlightenment, not the reformation, that drove the change you're talking about in the christian world.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Waiting for the Islamic Reformation
     Reply #2 - September 22, 2015, 02:51 PM

    Quote
    It was the enlightenment, not the reformation


    ^Yeah people tend to mix up the two, like I have done on a previous thread.

    Welcome Ayushman..  parrot
  • Waiting for the Islamic Reformation
     Reply #3 - September 23, 2015, 01:43 AM

     parrot
    Welcome!

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Waiting for the Islamic Reformation
     Reply #4 - October 09, 2015, 07:26 AM

    What makes me laugh about folks bitching about Islam's need for reformation is how they tend to ignore or brush off Muslims who are human right activists with genuine concern for humanity and a sizable number of voices that have more liberal outlook than them(critics) but rather listen to Nawaz whose audience is full of right wingers. Ha!


    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Waiting for the Islamic Reformation
     Reply #5 - October 09, 2015, 07:56 AM

    Hey Cato, welcome back.  Smiley

    So you don't think Nawaz is at all a useful voice for Islamic reformation?

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Waiting for the Islamic Reformation
     Reply #6 - October 09, 2015, 08:40 AM

    Quote
    What makes me laugh about folks bitching about Islam's need for reformation is how they tend to ignore or brush off Muslims who are human right activists with genuine concern for humanity and a sizable number of voices that have more liberal outlook than them(critics) but rather listen to Nawaz whose audience is full of right wingers. Ha!



    Hey Cato, welcome back.  Smiley

    So you don't think Nawaz is at all a useful voice for Islamic reformation?


    No........Nope.... That Cato is here to drop bombs ... but you know some time certain places needs bombs .. so let me also say Hey Cato  good to read you and ..Take Care.. and CONTROL THAT ANGER.. it s purposeless and it harms self..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Waiting for the Islamic Reformation
     Reply #7 - October 09, 2015, 08:43 AM

    No matter what the proponents of Islam and Christianity believe,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    So ..ayushman ... joins the forum and gives lecture on Islam and Christianity  and a lecture to those who follow/preach  Islam and Christianity... Well I have no time to read all of it .. but Man..   WHATISUP.. what  man??


    well ayushman  is writing.   So I must  read some of his good words ...Words of Love...  

    Just kidding welcome to CEMB forum..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Waiting for the Islamic Reformation
     Reply #8 - February 29, 2016, 09:02 PM

    It is quite astounding how liberal humanists can deploy so many words to say absolutely nothing of any import.

    There are a few reasons why we will never see a sola scriptura type of reformation in islam (and anyway, the reformation in christianity was a bloody, brutal affair, especially in France and Germany.)

    I won't list the more obvious reasons but the reformation and later enlightenment coincided with the accentuation of the class positions of merchants and town dwellers. There was a necessity to break the feudal bonds which tied peasants to land, instead turning them into landless and propertyless slaves, in keeping with the expansion of imperialism, both in its mercantile and industrial capitalist forms. As christianity requires one to answer to an authority this was either minimised or outright negated, I.E: England, France, Germany etc. As feudalism doesn't exist any more in the islamic world and there is directly a strata of islamic society which benefits from imposing islamic rule there is simply no conceivable way we could see something approximating the French revolution or even the cult of reason, unless the working-classes decide to take production into their own hands and institute an economy that isn't based on ownership but usufruct. This won't be happening any time soon.

    I could go into how the ottoman empire wasn't feudal (but tributary) in the conventional sense and how the nation state building was insigated at the beginning of a very early insipid capitalism and all the challenges that come with that but I suspect that this shoddily compiled lecture (if you can even call it that) was ghost-written. So I won't bother.
  • Waiting for the Islamic Reformation
     Reply #9 - March 01, 2016, 12:41 AM

    I think you hit it on the head, actually. Good to see you.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
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