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 Topic: If You Could Go Back, Ex-Muslims..

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  • If You Could Go Back, Ex-Muslims..
     Reply #30 - November 26, 2015, 11:10 PM
    I'm just watching the final episode of a documentary (The Power of Nightmares - would highly recommend) and it talks about instances of people (specifically members of the American government) filling in the blanks after having come up with the conclusion - They had faith that the email they intercepted was coded, so despite all the evidence, despite all the facts, they stuck to this theory, didn't back down, and tried to convict some people of terrorism.

    We all do this all the time, we create fantasies and imaginations and we make things out to be not what they are. We have faith in ourselves that we are correct. Hence why I think faith sucks.
  • If You Could Go Back, Ex-Muslims..
     Reply #31 - November 26, 2015, 11:11 PM
    hrm..

    You put a lot of thought into it..

    I agree that things are never logically consistent. I think a lot of people search for that. They listen to motivational videos, hear other peoples' advices about the world and none of it ever works for them.

    There's a lost art in this world.. And that's trusting yourself. We have to remember that people existed before social media, and all of these "life advices" that people give on the internet makes people forget their own intuition and values.

    I once thought, "If I was a good, quiet practicing Muslim that kept to himself about his ideas, then I would have been better off."

    But it's not in my nature to keep my mouth shut if I know the truth about something. And when I kept digging and researched Islam, I always voiced myself. Nobody liked it.. But I did anyway and ended up an ex-muslim.

    I compare it to the movie, The Matrix. I could live a happy delusion or I could live an unsatisfying truth.

    Life is hard for any truth seeker in the world. But it doesn't make it a bad world.
    "If you don't like your religion's fundamentalists, then maybe there's something wrong with your religion's fundamentals."
    "Demanding blind respect but not offering any respect in reciprocation is laughable."
    "Let all the people in all the worlds be in peace."
  • If You Could Go Back, Ex-Muslims..
     Reply #32 - November 27, 2015, 01:16 AM
    Quote from: ExMuslimVlogGuy on November 26, 2015, 04:57 PM
    "I don't know maybe it's because I don't hate religion"

    That's very interesting coming from an ex-muslim. I applaud you for not turning to blind hatred.

    I myself am a little confused at times whether I should hate religion overall or not. I do think the world will be a better place with them having very little impact on the world..

    At the same time, I do recognize some religions does bring about some good (morality.)

    My stance is that religion can be helpful for really dumb people who can't figure things out in life..

    But for an enlightened person, it's better that they abandon it.




    I don't hate religion. Religion is a natural thing. It served its purpose. The question now is, how do people move past religion. I don't have the answer to that, but I'm pretty sure the REAL thoughts of ex-Muslims and ex-religious people will be essential. The more people can admit that their own thoughts are not too dissimilar, the better.

    Or perhaps that's just my blind faith that rationality wins.
  • If You Could Go Back, Ex-Muslims..
     Reply #33 - November 27, 2015, 01:34 AM
    Quote from: Lassan on November 26, 2015, 11:02 PM
    Not necessarily faith in Islam, but faith in anything - yourself, humanity, someone else. It helps.

    Religious people tend to say/believe things like "God works in mysterious ways" or "Whatever happens is always for the best". But logically, those statements are not true. In my analysis of religion and other scientific material, I stopped saying/thinking things like that. I had faith in humanity, but not much anymore. I had faith in myself, but it's hard to reconcile that with logic - things aren't always logically consistent. And with those doubts, it hard to have conviction.


    I quite like hope. Sometimes it's all we have to get us through the hard times, and even if it's an illusion, it's one that sustains us while we need it.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Re: If You Could Go Back, Ex-Muslims..
     Reply #34 - November 27, 2015, 02:20 AM
    Quote from: Lassan on November 26, 2015, 10:22 PM
    If I could go back, I would try harder to keep my faith.

    If you think about it, it is easy to dismiss Islam or any other religion. There are plenty of logical inconsistencies that you can point to and refute. Faith lets you look beyond the flaws and believe. Unfortunately, people can be just as logically inconsistent, but much harder to dismiss, especially if you care about them.

    Faith lets us forget and move on. It lets us ignore the past and speak of the future with conviction: “It must be for the best”, “things can only get better”. It lets us forget what was, what could’ve been and what should’ve been.

    Faith lets us be selfish. It lets us abandon old friends and move on to new ones. It gives us strength to move beyond past injustices.

    Faith lets us convince ourselves and never back down. It lets us fit the facts around our solution, instead of making us create a solution to fit the evidence. It makes us docile and complicit and less willing to fight. It lets us give up our hopes, dreams and aspirations. It lets us give up and forget yet somehow still carry on.

    Faith sucks, yet I envy those who have it.



    Interesting view of faith.
  • If You Could Go Back, Ex-Muslims..
     Reply #35 - November 27, 2015, 03:16 AM
    "I quite like hope. Sometimes it's all we have to get us through the hard times, and even if it's an illusion, it's one that sustains us while we need it."

    Sometimes I think the world as a majority live their life this way, and it's not necessarily a bad thing. People choose who they want to be.. And why not? Life is short.
    "If you don't like your religion's fundamentalists, then maybe there's something wrong with your religion's fundamentals."
    "Demanding blind respect but not offering any respect in reciprocation is laughable."
    "Let all the people in all the worlds be in peace."
  • If You Could Go Back, Ex-Muslims..
     Reply #36 - November 28, 2015, 09:41 PM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on November 27, 2015, 01:34 AM
    I quite like hope. Sometimes it's all we have to get us through the hard times, and even if it's an illusion, it's one that sustains us while we need it.


    Agreed - Hope is a good thing, but sometimes it can be hard to get. Sometimes we have to resort to hope because of our faith - which is often based on personal conviction, or something that gets stuck in your head.

    I'm not sure what point I'm trying to make, but

    I used to love my cousins and I have the fondest memories of spending time with them, but I doubt I will ever see them again. If I do, I will not be able to connect with them in the same way because of my (lack of) religious faith. My parents treated me the way they did because of their faith in their culture. The person that abused me as a child had faith in their belief that it was best for me. I gave up on and cut my parents out of life because of my faith in someone else, very shortly before it transpired that that faith was misplaced.

    I guess my point is that often there is someone else at the other end of our faith and our beliefs that gets the shitty end of the stick. If the reasons behind our convictions seem inconsistent or illogical or contrary to evidence, then it's hard to understand for them - they need faith/hope of their own to heal.
  • If You Could Go Back, Ex-Muslims..
     Reply #37 - November 29, 2015, 05:32 AM
    Shakespeare said "The heart is deceitful above all things". While the heart is deceitful, it's also the source of everything worthwhile. Our joy, our anguish, our laughter, our tears, our love, our hatred. It can consume you more than you can bear, fill you up to the point you feel like you can fly or want to throw yourself off a bridge. It influences our actions, our choices, our destinies.

    Our hearts can often lead us astray and this can be most dangerous and most destructive when we have no mindful balance. Every second of our lives is an experience, and every experience brings new lessons and new wisdom. When we truly grow up we find that balance, and it is a balance. Never listening to your heart will bring a life not worth living, but always listening will bring destruction. It's the balance you need, passion and logic working in harmony.

    Follow your heart, but listen to your head.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • If You Could Go Back, Ex-Muslims..
     Reply #38 - November 29, 2015, 05:57 AM
    "Never listening to your heart will bring a life not worth living, but always listening will bring destruction. It's the balance you need, passion and logic working in harmony.

    Follow your heart, but listen to your head."

    Well said.
    "If you don't like your religion's fundamentalists, then maybe there's something wrong with your religion's fundamentals."
    "Demanding blind respect but not offering any respect in reciprocation is laughable."
    "Let all the people in all the worlds be in peace."
  • If You Could Go Back, Ex-Muslims..
     Reply #39 - November 29, 2015, 02:15 PM
    I despise hope. I think it encourages inactivity. I found myself relying upon it during the worst time of my life. Doing so can make it a solution, a mental illness.
    During that time I read an interview with a Buddhist nun, who said she has ¨Abandon all hope¨ up somewhere in her home to remind herself that hope is inaction, a decision in itself.
    I use the word all the time but really I don´t do it much. What I want to happen I try to plan for, prepare for, so that it can become a reality instead of a hope.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • If You Could Go Back, Ex-Muslims..
     Reply #40 - November 29, 2015, 02:22 PM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on November 29, 2015, 05:32 AM
    Shakespeare said "The heart is deceitful above all things". While the heart is deceitful, it's also the source of everything worthwhile. Our joy, our anguish, our laughter, our tears, our love, our hatred. It can consume you more than you can bear, fill you up to the point you feel like you can fly or want to throw yourself off a bridge. It influences our actions, our choices, our destinies.

    Our hearts can often lead us astray and this can be most dangerous and most destructive when we have no mindful balance. Every second of our lives is an experience, and every experience brings new lessons and new wisdom. When we truly grow up we find that balance, and it is a balance. Never listening to your heart will bring a life not worth living, but always listening will bring destruction. It's the balance you need, passion and logic working in harmony.

    Follow your heart, but listen to your head.


    Wise, wise words.
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • If You Could Go Back, Ex-Muslims..
     Reply #41 - November 29, 2015, 05:53 PM
    Quote from: three on November 29, 2015, 02:15 PM
    I despise hope. I think it encourages inactivity. I found myself relying upon it during the worst time of my life. Doing so can make it a solution, a mental illness.
    During that time I read an interview with a Buddhist nun, who said she has ¨Abandon all hope¨ up somewhere in her home to remind herself that hope is inaction, a decision in itself.
    I use the word all the time but really I don´t do it much. What I want to happen I try to plan for, prepare for, so that it can become a reality instead of a hope.


    That's a great point. This is a trap. Many interpret "hope" to encourage laziness in thought. I will always remember this
    "If you don't like your religion's fundamentalists, then maybe there's something wrong with your religion's fundamentals."
    "Demanding blind respect but not offering any respect in reciprocation is laughable."
    "Let all the people in all the worlds be in peace."
  • If You Could Go Back, Ex-Muslims..
     Reply #42 - November 30, 2015, 01:40 AM
    It is a trap, indeed. I hope you do remember, and avoid it. I would not wish it upon anyone.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • If You Could Go Back, Ex-Muslims..
     Reply #43 - November 30, 2015, 02:44 AM
    "I would not wish it upon anyone."

    Care to share any dark experiences? I might need the advice.
    "If you don't like your religion's fundamentalists, then maybe there's something wrong with your religion's fundamentals."
    "Demanding blind respect but not offering any respect in reciprocation is laughable."
    "Let all the people in all the worlds be in peace."
  • If You Could Go Back, Ex-Muslims..
     Reply #44 - November 30, 2015, 03:05 AM
    Well, it is not about what was happening at the time, it was about my frame of mind. I felt helpless, and so I turned to hope. I would hope this or hope that and wait. Wait for something to change. But nothing changes from hope. Hope is not action that makes change. When you hope you are instead subject to whatever is happening outside of your control. You are choosing to give up.
    It is probably a form of wishful thinking in such a situation, like a mental illness.
    When I said I would not wish it upon anyone, though I of course meant my own circumstances as well, what I really meant was that I do not wish anyone to give up their autonomy.
    I wish that all people would retain their autonomy and craft their own lives, refusing to hand the reins over to anyone or any entity.
    For Muslim women this is especially pertinent, since Islam encourages females to be dependent upon men.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • If You Could Go Back, Ex-Muslims..
     Reply #45 - November 30, 2015, 03:28 AM
    I can relate to that. Being ex-muslim at first leaves many of us hopeless. There is no aim. No purpose.. Then you really get to know the nature of humans. It all feels pointless.

    I got to know the feeling of apathy pretty darn well.

    I'd just sleep. Smoke cigarettes. Sleep. Felt like there was no purpose to establish relationships or friendships..

    It was really bad at first.. But then I started getting a little bit better mentally.

    It truly is a Hell-Hole to rely on hope alone.

    There's no magic button. Everything is trial-and-error.

    I still feel helpless at times, I'm not going to lie.. But I know I'm just going to have to figure this out on my own. There's really no "self-help" book or spirituality that will make me feel better..

    I'm going to have to rely on rationale to get me through it.
    "If you don't like your religion's fundamentalists, then maybe there's something wrong with your religion's fundamentals."
    "Demanding blind respect but not offering any respect in reciprocation is laughable."
    "Let all the people in all the worlds be in peace."
  • If You Could Go Back, Ex-Muslims..
     Reply #46 - November 30, 2015, 07:39 AM
    Hope doesn't equal inaction. I was never naive enough to think hoping for change while never doing anything to bring it about would be anything other than useless.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • If You Could Go Back, Ex-Muslims..
     Reply #47 - November 30, 2015, 09:54 AM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on November 29, 2015, 05:32 AM
    Shakespeare said "The heart is deceitful above all things".



    The Bible also says this Wink the rest of the quote is "the heart of deceptive above all things, and desperately wicked; who can know it? "
    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • If You Could Go Back, Ex-Muslims..
     Reply #48 - November 30, 2015, 02:40 PM
    Cue Quod claiming he's the second coming of Jesus.  Tongue
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • If You Could Go Back, Ex-Muslims..
     Reply #49 - November 30, 2015, 03:23 PM
    If he was, I have to say I enjoyed his second body of work far more than the bible.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • If You Could Go Back, Ex-Muslims..
     Reply #50 - November 30, 2015, 06:12 PM
    Oh never mind. I thought you had claimed the quote. I should read better.
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • If You Could Go Back, Ex-Muslims..
     Reply #51 - December 01, 2015, 10:16 AM
    If it makes you feel better, I had an absent/abusive father, an appreciation of carpentry, people seem to think I have wisdom to share and I suffered much persecution. Am I the Messiah? Am I god made flesh and blood? I won't say no.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • If You Could Go Back, Ex-Muslims..
     Reply #52 - December 01, 2015, 02:04 PM
     Cheesy

    That's better. Smiley
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • If You Could Go Back, Ex-Muslims..
     Reply #53 - December 01, 2015, 02:15 PM
    Hey ExMuslimVlogGuy,

    I don't hate religion as I have some really good friends who are really religious, they accept my views and I theirs. But I do hate some aspects of it and the hate and divide it can cause. I guess it's just down to how good people are and I aim to keep those Smiley Having said that, Muslims are the hardest to deal with, I don't have any Muslim friends and they always have a way of alienating (I don't know if that's a culture thing?) I always find them to accept certain things like drinking, drugs and adultery etc but if it's something they don't agree (or don't do themselves) with then it's all wrong and they hate you, in particular homosexuality or if they find out a girl smokes or drinks or whatever, it seems to be ok for boys.
  • If You Could Go Back, Ex-Muslims..
     Reply #54 - December 01, 2015, 04:29 PM
    Yeah my statement usually is "I have a problem with Islam, but I have empathy for Muslims."

    I don't really hate Muslims generally. It's what they were given as children. As far as converts, it's what their brain has led them to believe. It's important to separate who's a good person and who's not a good person in our minds. And judge them according to that instead of their religion.

    Yes, I definitely hate/dislike some Muslims who carry their ideas to the extreme, because they are aware they are doing so..

    But then you have Muslims just parroting what they were told and it's difficult to reason with them...

    So every case is unique.
    "If you don't like your religion's fundamentalists, then maybe there's something wrong with your religion's fundamentals."
    "Demanding blind respect but not offering any respect in reciprocation is laughable."
    "Let all the people in all the worlds be in peace."
  • If You Could Go Back, Ex-Muslims..
     Reply #55 - December 01, 2015, 05:16 PM
    i was always forced by my parents to wear Hijab,offer prayers,observe fast and so on which i hated always, i was never been a good so called muslim girl, i hate the time i spent there and had enough punishment and depression. i am free and happy now.. If i get a chance to go back in time i will never go back. Cry
    Gods don't kill people, people with Gods kill people.
  • If You Could Go Back, Ex-Muslims..
     Reply #56 - December 10, 2015, 09:02 AM
    I would go back in time and not leave my classes because of prayer. Missed alot of notes that were extremely useful.

    Talk to this one pretty girl who was very fond of me but I shrugged off because of it being haram

    Making religious friends because they seriously piss me off when they tell me its time to pray

    Go back in time and record Muhammed planning out his prophethood with my iPhone and posting it back on YouTube for the world to see. LOL
  • If You Could Go Back, Ex-Muslims..
     Reply #57 - December 10, 2015, 09:26 AM
    "Go back in time and record Muhammed planning out his prophethood with my iPhone and posting it back on YouTube for the world to see."

    Imagine that. haha.

    I feel ya when it comes to school. I remember fasting and it was so hard to concentrate in school.

    And so many girls..  All turned down because it was haram.  finmad

    Religious friends were annoying. I remember watching my favorite anime on youtube and they'd be like, "It's time for Maghrib."
    "If you don't like your religion's fundamentalists, then maybe there's something wrong with your religion's fundamentals."
    "Demanding blind respect but not offering any respect in reciprocation is laughable."
    "Let all the people in all the worlds be in peace."
  • If You Could Go Back, Ex-Muslims..
     Reply #58 - December 21, 2015, 06:49 AM
    Damn,looks like you were all very religious back then Tongue

    Honestly,in retrospect i dont think i would wholly blame Islam for my upbringing although i did wish my parents have remain liberal as they were in the 80s and early 90s but thats life and i wish we never lived in my hometown which is a very fucked up conservative city as it has fucked up my world views and made me internalize a lot of bullshit in the society before i manage to discard them later on.

    Funny thing about my relationship with women is that despite the Islamic cultural influence at home,i still lost my virginity at 13 and had a few girlfriends later on,so i dont know if it would have make any differences except feeling guilty of committing sin which even as a muslim whenever i did that,i do ghusl and ask God for forgiveness. Cheesy

    I have always been liberal even as a muslim although they were moments when i was religious such as praying 5 times daily at the appropriate time,voluntary fastings and living the sunna life but i couldnt last two months before i revert back to my old ways. It has been like that for me until i stopped believing in Islam.

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • If You Could Go Back, Ex-Muslims..
     Reply #59 - December 21, 2015, 06:58 AM
    Damn Cato,

    you had it figured out even when you were a muslim! I wish I had your intellect. lol
    "If you don't like your religion's fundamentalists, then maybe there's something wrong with your religion's fundamentals."
    "Demanding blind respect but not offering any respect in reciprocation is laughable."
    "Let all the people in all the worlds be in peace."
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