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 Topic: Hitting the wife wtf

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  • Hitting the wife wtf
     OP - December 11, 2015, 10:32 AM

    WTF
    just had a friendly discussion whith my co worker about hitting ones wife in the quran
    and this is what i found on islam qa


    He had an argument with his wife and hit her head against the wall and she died
     
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Hhusband and wife were quarrelling because of the second wife. in anger during the fight he held her head and hit it on the wall. she went into coma and never recoved until she died. Is he doomed, or will he be saved by intention.
     

    Praise be to Allaah.

    What the husband did, holding his wife’s head and hitting it against the wall, is an evil act and is not permissible, because Allaah has not permitted striking the wife in this manner. Rather there is a concession allowing hitting her to discipline her, after exhorting her and forsaking her in bed, on the basis that it should not be a painful blow, and should not leave a mark or break a bone, and it should not be done with motives of revenge or to express one’s anger. 
     
    Secondly:
     
    What the husband has done comes under the heading of quasi-intentional killing, which the majority of scholars defined as intending to strike a person with something that does not usually kill, such as a whip or small stick.
     
    Ibn Qudaamah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in al-Mughni (6/118): Quasi-intentional is one of the categories of killing. What it means is that he intended to hit him with something that does not usually kill, either with the intention of aggression against him or with the aim of disciplining him, but he went too far in it, such as hitting with a whip, stick or small rock or striking with the hand, or anything else that does not usually kill; if it kills then it is quasi-intentional, because the aim was to strike but not to kill. The action was intentional but the killing occurred by mistake. There is no qisaas in such cases, and the diyah must be paid by the ‘aaqilah (male relatives on the father’s side), according to the majority of scholars. End quote.
     
    Hence the husband must do two things:
     
    1-
     
    He must offer expiation, which is freeing a slave; if that is not possible then he must fast for two consecutive months, and it is not acceptable for him to feed the poor instead, according to the more correct view, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
     
    “It is not for a believer to kill a believer except (that it be) by mistake; and whosoever kills a believer by mistake, (it is ordained that) he must set free a believing slave and a compensation (blood money, i.e. Diya) be given to the deceased’s family unless they remit it. If the deceased belonged to a people at war with you and he was a believer, the freeing of a believing slave (is prescribed); and if he belonged to a people with whom you have a treaty of mutual alliance, compensation (blood money — Diya) must be paid to his family, and a believing slave must be freed. And whoso finds this (the penance of freeing a slave) beyond his means, he must fast for two consecutive months in order to seek repentance from Allaah. And Allaah is Ever All‑Knowing, All‑Wise”
     
    [al-Nisa’ 4:92]
     
    The Standing Committee for Issuing Fatwas was asked: Do I have to fast after paying the diyah, and for how long? Should it be consecutive or not? Can I fast intermittently or feed poor people instead?
     
    They replied:
     
    You have to offer expiation for killing by mistake, which is freeing a believing slave. If that is not possible then you must fast for two consecutive months, and it is not permissible for you to fast intermittently or to feed poor people as expiation for killing by mistake, because there is no proof of that as expiation for killing in the Book of Allaah or the Sunnah of His Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and your Lord is not forgetful. End quote.
     
    Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah (21/273)
     
    2-
     
    The diyah must be paid by the ‘aaqilah (male relatives on the father’s side) of the killer, unless the heirs of the wife agree to let him off.
     
    The ‘aaqilah is what is nowadays known as the ‘aa’ilah (family), but what is meant is the males only; it does not include the females. The ‘aa’ilah includes the father, grandfather, son, brothers, paternal uncles and their sons.
     
    The diyah for a woman is half the diyah of a man, so it is fifty camels.
     
    And Allaah knows best.

    Life is like a box of chocolates, shut the fuck up and eat them!
  • Hitting the wife wtf
     Reply #1 - December 11, 2015, 10:37 AM

    I just had this discussion about hitting the wife with a nice muslim guy. He said he does it without leaving bruises on his wife.

    I told him about all the different interpretations of the 4:34 from the Quran (which It gives Muslims permission to hit their wives) and he kept telling me that if he didn't hit his wife, she would have divorced him by now..

    I'm now trying to convince him that any kind of abuse is irrational.. And that even though he thinks that divorce is evil, he should never resort to beating his wife.

    He insists that hitting her without leaving a mark/bruise is ok.. I'm trying my best to convince him otherwise..

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

    "If you don't like your religion's fundamentalists, then maybe there's something wrong with your religion's fundamentals."
    "Demanding blind respect but not offering any respect in reciprocation is laughable."
    "Let all the people in all the worlds be in peace."
  • Hitting the wife wtf
     Reply #2 - December 11, 2015, 11:03 AM

    IslamQA is an abomination, but it is also a perfect example of what Islam in its most simple and literal (and most true to its sources, if you ask  me) interpretation leads to. That fatwa isn't even the worst one I've read.

    As a side note, I also liked the fact that he explained that the blood money (diyah) is only given to the male members of the family. Wasn't the reason for the diyah being half for women due to her not being as big of a loss of income as any male? Roll Eyes But why then only give the money to the male members, since not all male members provide for all of the female members of the family etc. It doesn't make any sense, nor has it ever made any sense. Males are simply more valued than females and that's that.

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Hitting the wife wtf
     Reply #3 - December 11, 2015, 11:14 AM

    And what are your thoughts on this Navtheshocker? Is there a reason you posted this?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Hitting the wife wtf
     Reply #4 - December 11, 2015, 11:33 AM

    Upon reflection this verse is grotesque i mean hitting your wife/kids just coz they dont pray is brutal and animalistic
    my work colleague actually agrees with me when we discussed this (a muslim)

    in addtion when it comes to hitting it should be no more then 10 strikes

    i mean come on wtf

    once again this was from islam qa, this has no place in a civilised society or any society 

    Life is like a box of chocolates, shut the fuck up and eat them!
  • Hitting the wife wtf
     Reply #5 - December 11, 2015, 11:40 AM

    IslamQA is technically a strand of Salafi website.. But many Sunnis cling on to it as evidence because it's widely available.

    I'm glad you think the concept of physical abuse is wrong in any religion..

    "If you don't like your religion's fundamentalists, then maybe there's something wrong with your religion's fundamentals."
    "Demanding blind respect but not offering any respect in reciprocation is laughable."
    "Let all the people in all the worlds be in peace."
  • Hitting the wife wtf
     Reply #6 - December 11, 2015, 12:01 PM

    Upon reflection this verse is grotesque i mean hitting your wife/kids just coz they dont pray is brutal and animalistic
    my work colleague actually agrees with me when we discussed this (a muslim)

    in addtion when it comes to hitting it should be no more then 10 strikes

    i mean come on wtf

    once again this was from islam qa, this has no place in a civilised society or any society 


    How lovely.

    Hitting women is ok, as long as it's less than 10 strikes!

    Actually, that blood money shit... sometimes I want to punch a wall whenever I read about this religion.
  • Hitting the wife wtf
     Reply #7 - December 11, 2015, 12:43 PM

    Upon reflection this verse is grotesque i mean hitting your wife/kids just coz they dont pray is brutal and animalistic
    my work colleague actually agrees with me when we discussed this (a muslim)

    in addtion when it comes to hitting it should be no more then 10 strikes

    i mean come on wtf

    once again this was from islam qa, this has no place in a civilised society or any society 


    Yes, even as a Muslim IslamQA sickened me. Used to get into arguments about it with friends, apparently it's quite popular among Muslims in the West because of the lack of access to Islamic "scholars". It has more disgusting things such as saying that rape victims need 4 witnesses to prove their "innocence", telling husbands to starve disobedient wives out until they behave, telling a victim of a potential forced marriage that she would be committing the greater sin by leaving her dad's house and so forth.
  • Hitting the wife wtf
     Reply #8 - December 11, 2015, 12:46 PM

    "Hitting the wife wtf"


    ...fools wrote some nonsense some 1000s of  years ago and  Idiots in 21st century consider it as "word of god allah bullshit" and try to defend it.....

    MOCK THE FOOLS AND MOVE ON

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Hitting the wife wtf
     Reply #9 - December 11, 2015, 12:55 PM

    To think that any self-respecting woman would actually accept this literally boggles the mind
    It’s so demeaning and reprehensible

    why don’t Muslims just come out and declare this verse as a bunch of nonsense

    im amazed how these verses just get brushed under the carpet :(

    Life is like a box of chocolates, shut the fuck up and eat them!
  • Hitting the wife wtf
     Reply #10 - December 11, 2015, 01:05 PM

    Being a muslim yourself I'm sure you realise how difficult it is for many believers to do that in so many words.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Hitting the wife wtf
     Reply #11 - December 11, 2015, 01:06 PM

    It's hard to reject verses from the Quran while being a Muslim; people come after you with pitchforks. Many Muslim women are uncomfortable with this verse but will choose to ignore it rather than to confront it. The typical reactions are "It's just a light tap with a miswaak, stop making such a fuss" and "Sister, we must not question what Allah has ordained, that is a quick route to Hell". Many Muslims feel this constant guilt at questioning any aspect of the religion because they are taught that being skeptical is evil.
  • Hitting the wife wtf
     Reply #12 - December 11, 2015, 01:06 PM

    You'd be surprised on how many non-muslims accept the idea of physical abuse in general..

    "Sometimes a good slap is what someone needs in order to be in check" is a motto they live by.

    Lots of non-muslims hit their wives/girlfriends too.. I think when converts accept Islam, they're a bit relieved when they come across the permissibility of allowing them to hit their wife and kids..

    They justify it to themselves and say, "Yeah I knew this was correct all along."

    Then converts to Islam eventually abandon all rational solutions. Most of the wife abuse calls that me and my former Imam got were mostly from converts.

    "If you don't like your religion's fundamentalists, then maybe there's something wrong with your religion's fundamentals."
    "Demanding blind respect but not offering any respect in reciprocation is laughable."
    "Let all the people in all the worlds be in peace."
  • Hitting the wife wtf
     Reply #13 - December 11, 2015, 01:10 PM

    People in positions of power (which is what the husband is in in an Islamic marriage in a vast majority of circumstances), using that power to hurt someone vulnerable (be it wife, kids, or whoever) is just gross.

    I don't care if its lightly, or whatever, verse 4:34 should be an embarrassment for all Muslims.

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Hitting the wife wtf
     Reply #14 - December 11, 2015, 01:12 PM

    Being a muslim yourself I'm sure you realise how difficult it is for many believers to do that in so many words.


    NO IT IS NOT DIFFICULT....

    use commonsense check the stupid stuff out... if you still like god..allah yadi..yadi..  JOIN THAT AGNOSTIC MUSLIM PREACHER  consider the book as man made book .

    Hmm.....   That guy was hot now he is fat.... well  it is life

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Hitting the wife wtf
     Reply #15 - December 11, 2015, 01:31 PM

    ''The best thing about leaving Islam is the ability to resist the urge do dash to wash your feet and gargle every time you fart''

    - An old exmuslim proverb

    Its also at times like these that you remember that you no longer have to make up silly interpretations to dodge bronze age barbarism that the salafists cling to.
  • Hitting the wife wtf
     Reply #16 - December 11, 2015, 01:34 PM

    People in positions of power (which is what the husband is in in an Islamic marriage in a vast majority of circumstances), using that power to hurt someone vulnerable (be it wife, kids, or whoever) is just gross.

    I don't care if its lightly, or whatever, verse 4:34 should be an embarrassment for all Muslims.


    This.. Why can't people see this? It just drives me crazy when anyone thinks it's not abuse.

    "If you don't like your religion's fundamentalists, then maybe there's something wrong with your religion's fundamentals."
    "Demanding blind respect but not offering any respect in reciprocation is laughable."
    "Let all the people in all the worlds be in peace."
  • Hitting the wife wtf
     Reply #17 - December 11, 2015, 01:39 PM

    ''The best thing about leaving Islam is the ability to resist the urge do dash to wash your feet and gargle every time you fart''

    that shit cracked me up lol

    im certainly conflicted and dont identify with this verse at all

    its plain wrong

    does this make me a kafir lol

    Life is like a box of chocolates, shut the fuck up and eat them!
  • Hitting the wife wtf
     Reply #18 - December 11, 2015, 03:46 PM

    Quote
    does this make me a kafir lol

    Nah. Performing witchcraft makes you a kafir.
  • Hitting the wife wtf
     Reply #19 - December 11, 2015, 04:36 PM

    ''The best thing about leaving Islam is the ability to resist the urge do dash to wash your feet and gargle every time you fart''

    that shit cracked me up lol

    im certainly conflicted and dont identify with this verse at all

    its plain wrong

    does this make me a kafir lol


    Y'know...

    Nobody, not even Mohammad can stake a claim in spirituality, or God. Or even monotheism.

    Many religions claim many things, but in the end they have no proof to support their grandiose claims. Empty words, all of them.

    If you want to believe in higher conscience, higher purpose, or whatever your current religion offers, you can always switch to being a deist. If you don't like abusive ideology, then stop supporting the ideology. Don't ignore it. You are not an abusive man, so maybe this doesn't affect you but there are MANY abusive men who will take full advantage of stupid verses like this. Including the women who are raised to be subservient and inferior. This is an abusive system.

    Also, there's nothing wrong with being spiritual - or agnostic muslim. You don't have to support violent verses. Just don't apologize and make excuses for it. Take what's good from Islam and leave the bad.

    Don't let your fear cloud your judgment. Do what's right.
  • Hitting the wife wtf
     Reply #20 - December 11, 2015, 05:03 PM

    "Sister, we must not question what Allah has ordained, that is a quick route to Hell".

    That one always got to me. It just blunts reason and that annoys me.

    Just yesterday, when things opened up, in a discussion between me and my agnostic friend, a muslim lady says "What are we accomplishing with these discussions? Everyone is going to have their own perspective and eventually this discussion will turn into an argument.".

    I've noticed religious people have knack for discouraging reasoning and discussion of uncomfortable topics (The topic we were discussing was hell and inhuman fury of gods).

    On Topic:
    I was having this discussion with some relatives. They present the usual argument of "it's just lightly" etc. I say why doesn't it provide the same provision for a woman. Can she hit lightly back? I don't care if it's lightly or hard, my problem is that it explicitly provisions one but not the other. To this, I got a double whammy of misogyny (and that too from coming from a woman) that:

    "It's in her interest that she shouldn't hit him because it could make him furious and he could hurt her really bad as he can overpower her. Allah knows whats best for her".
    Holy bananas. What do you think is wrong with that sort of reasoning?

    The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those that cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn. - Alvin Toffler
  • Hitting the wife wtf
     Reply #21 - December 11, 2015, 05:34 PM

    I'm really frustrated with someone as he's telling me these are his justifications for hitting his wife:
    "Depending on the situation . Because when it comes for the general
    interest of my family i'm going to do what i have to do to keep us safe
    and sound from the danger of the divorce , and i expect from my wife to
    do the same thing when she feel that i start to mess with the stability
    of our family .
    My friend ... family for us is something holy not just a romantic
    adventure which we can end it without strength .

     Now let me ask you something

    What do you think about those things which god forbidden us to do it for
     our wifes .

    - Let them down and run away .
    - Disrespect them and humiliate them .
    - Not spend on them from your money .
    - Cheating on them .
    - Cuckolds ,those who pushes their wifes to have sex with other men for
    his pleasure
    - Force them to do violent sex (Sadism) like deep throat , zoo sex etc
    ...
    - Push them to work against their will .
    - Don't protect them from the dangers .
    - Being a cold person (asshole) with them .
    - Put them in dangerous situation .
    - let them need something which you can do it or buy it (sex, clothes,
    time etc...)

    My point is : If you see the big screen from a good distance you going
    to see better picture which make you understand all the scene . so
    please take a good distance and try to see the whole the verse from
    another point of view , because you still judge only one act from the
    entire scene .
    Peace ."



    "If you don't like your religion's fundamentalists, then maybe there's something wrong with your religion's fundamentals."
    "Demanding blind respect but not offering any respect in reciprocation is laughable."
    "Let all the people in all the worlds be in peace."
  • Hitting the wife wtf
     Reply #22 - December 11, 2015, 06:45 PM

    Does he think that being a Muslim that beats his wife automatically makes someone unable to do all of those other things? Or that those who don't beat their wives, necessarily will do them?

    I don't get why he brings up other distasteful or unethical things to try to justify the unethical thing in question that is prescribed by the Quran. There's a name for that logical fallacy which slips my mind at the moment, but until someone tells me what it is I'll simply say that his argument is full of shit.

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Hitting the wife wtf
     Reply #23 - December 11, 2015, 06:59 PM

    How does hitting your wife prevent her from divorcing you? If it's not about intimidating and threatening her into staying with her. I mean, if you beat her when she bring up the topic, what would you actually do if she went through with it? Roll Eyes

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Hitting the wife wtf
     Reply #24 - December 11, 2015, 07:06 PM

    Well I think you know what the answer is, and its just sad and depressing. Its a thuggish, brutal mentality.

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Hitting the wife wtf
     Reply #25 - December 11, 2015, 07:23 PM

    How does hitting your wife prevent her from divorcing you? If it's not about intimidating and threatening her into staying with her. I mean, if you beat her when she bring up the topic, what would you actually do if she went through with it? Roll Eyes


    You would think ! Unless she is into a spanking fetish or something.  Huh? 

    But joking aside, wife beating is not funny.
  • Hitting the wife wtf
     Reply #26 - December 11, 2015, 07:59 PM

    On Topic:
    I was having this discussion with some relatives. They present the usual argument of "it's just lightly" etc. I say why doesn't it provide the same provision for a woman. Can she hit lightly back? I don't care if it's lightly or hard, my problem is that it explicitly provisions one but not the other. To this, I got a double whammy of misogyny (and that too from coming from a woman) that:

    "It's in her interest that she shouldn't hit him because it could make him furious and he could hurt her really bad as he can overpower her. Allah knows whats best for her".
    Holy bananas. What do you think is wrong with that sort of reasoning?


    And if Islam really had the answer to everything then there would be some protection for victims of domestic violence under Sharia. What complete nonsense.
  • Hitting the wife wtf
     Reply #27 - December 11, 2015, 10:13 PM

    "no offense but no wonder if someone's wife beats the shit out of him when you are his advisor Smiley"


    This is what that guy wrote to me (the one I posted about earlier) when I told him that he could be a great husband without ever justifying hitting his wife (without leaving bruises)

    The true colors come out whenever they're left in frustration..

    "If you don't like your religion's fundamentalists, then maybe there's something wrong with your religion's fundamentals."
    "Demanding blind respect but not offering any respect in reciprocation is laughable."
    "Let all the people in all the worlds be in peace."
  • Hitting the wife wtf
     Reply #28 - December 12, 2015, 12:50 AM

    Does he actually hit his wife or is he saying all that to defend the verse?
  • Hitting the wife wtf
     Reply #29 - December 12, 2015, 01:05 AM

    He hits her. He told me openly. The sad thing was that a non-muslim jumped in the discussion and said it's "technically not abuse" since it's mentioned as a last resort rather than a first resort.

    The intellect of some people..  Cry

    Anyway, he kept saying "in the bigger picture of life, there are justifiable measures to resort to in order to prevent divorce."

    I just feel abnormal after that discussion. Makes me sick. People look for an excuse to hit women. Muslim and non-Muslim alike.

    "If you don't like your religion's fundamentalists, then maybe there's something wrong with your religion's fundamentals."
    "Demanding blind respect but not offering any respect in reciprocation is laughable."
    "Let all the people in all the worlds be in peace."
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