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 Topic: Why must Maryam Namazie take on the left in her critiques of Islamic extremism?

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  • Why must Maryam Namazie take on the left in her critiques of Islamic extremism?
     Reply #120 - March 21, 2016, 02:15 PM

    Wahhabist, I'm more afraid of spam-bots to be honest  wacko

    Ah I see what you mean, I certainly don't need more junk in my mailbox. Thanks again xx
  • Why must Maryam Namazie take on the left in her critiques of Islamic extremism?
     Reply #121 - March 21, 2016, 02:50 PM

    HM-side are arguing that Islam, just like every other religions (Christianity and Judaism, etc) can be changed. It doesn't matter what the "real definition" is, because what people feel like what the real definition is, changes overtime.

    I have not made one single reference to the immutable nature of religion in general nor Islam in particular. That is not an argument I was or am making.

    There was a time when being Christian mean actually following Christianity.... Nowadays Christians are gluttonous and not very humble. It used to be full of guilt-tripping, now it's mega churches and stuff.

    Can you be of the Christian faith without any reference to Jesus being God or to Jesus's divinity? If you can, then whatever you are left with has moved away from the Christian faith.

    Religions and their developments are not logical, religions are pretty much defined by what the religious think they should mean (ought). There is no "is" in religion, because the definition of "is" changes.

    The two criteria are the most fundamental IS to being of the Muslim faith.

    Right now, muslims are salafi-ist and will probably laugh at secular muslims. That's true, for now.

     
    You've just made the case for what Muslim-IS which is and has been my and Jedi's conclusive preoccupation. Not what could have been or can be Islam in the immediate or remote future. This can-be Islam being advanced here doesn't lack imagination which seems to be its biggest liability, but rather it lacks what Jedi says, facing the facts, and what I judge it against i.e. the two criteria.

    However, looking at every other religions on earth, Islam will change just like everything else. Salafism will probably die off, and hippy-Islam have a good chance to flourish then.

      This is an argument I did not and will not make. I did not say anything about Islam or any other religion never changing. I'm concerned with the particular change advanced here. 

    I mean, I do agree that if you're a jew, by definition you can't be like "secular jews" who are only jew just because. No matter how you look at it, orthodox jews in Israel are more jewish. Ditto with orthodox Christians, of course the more literal and backward (closer to how it was when it's invented) then the "more right" it is. But nowadays most jews are secular and most christians are liberal christians...

     The beginning part of this quote argues for me. The last bit argues points I did not make (points which would be interesting to closely examine in other more relevant contexts).

    So it doesn't matter what religion "is", religions have always been about what the religious think it "ought" be.

     Yes, the religious which in this context simply mean believers.
  • Why must Maryam Namazie take on the left in her critiques of Islamic extremism?
     Reply #122 - March 21, 2016, 04:21 PM

    This inactive tolerance is because factually, Muslim-OUGHT people (luckily in this case, not ought to be) are free to do and say so as this freedom is guaranteed (when applicable) by their countries’ secular constitutions.

    I'm going to elaborate on this and go on a massive and unreasonably long tour. You have been warned.

    Thus, to draw a linguistic analogy, it is this freedom for example that allows the past tense of <bring> to be ‘brung’ in the speech of some urban varieties and dialects of British English (such as Multicultural London English, the speech of Dead Jihadi John and New Jihadi John etc). Dialectal differences, informal, slang or colloquial words and non-standard register are specialised varieties. That is to say, only those within any particular social stratum habitually use and make fullest sense of them. As such, these specialised varieties of English are not incorrect. It is a mistake to use “incorrect” here because, in semantics, this is a category error; a variety word and register in this case belong to a different category from the standardised variety against which they are being judged “incorrect”.

    This is the reason why in lived spoken English reality, it does not matter that the grammar of anything anyone says is not standard so long as what anything anyone says is fairly easily understood. You might find an Englishman wincing or even sniggering at another Englishman’s accent and grammar, but that doesn’t in social reality lead to anyone trying to correct or teach anyone anything. Nor does it make the one with non-standard variety less English in narrower linguistic or wider cultural terms.

    Therefore, it is not unwise for the purpose of clear communication for an English user to stick to the standard variety (a variety or dialect is made of vocabulary and grammar PLUS pronunciation) and at the same time tolerate and allow other varieties the freedom they naturally enjoy. In fact, this is not a matter of ‘allowing’ others the freedom but this freedom cannot be denied for practical and in many cases, legal reasons; this is like trying to deny people the freedom to wishful think or hope i.e. faith when simplified.

    But academia (which is serious organised thinking) has more rigid criteria for facts finding as well as repeatably discoverable, generalizable truths. This is directly related to the discussion above as telling people about your new way of identifying yourself is practically eliciting responses from them which you need to be incredibly naive to think will be unchallenged or that you wouldn’t be asked to share the mental processes through which you have arrived at this conclusion. Again, if you think you don’t owe anyone any explanation, then fine, ignore these questioning voices which by the way, three, are not silencing it for subjecting it to rational scrutiny.

    Yes, for pedagogic purposes, every dictionary is necessarily prescriptive (i.e. an authority saying this or these are the meanings of these words, so things not mentioned are not officially words, or even “incorrect” according to some users) and some dictionaries TELL you not to use words in a particular way (for example, saying <something> as ‘sommink’ or the indiscriminate use of the question tag 'innit'). However, all this in academic terms is not scientific because this approach is one of English-OUGTH when in reality it was supposed to be English-IS as nobody can deny these items exist in synchronic (as opposed to diachronic) English. It is thus for largely practical reasons and not confusing the learner with vast amount of information (which what being academically thorough would mean) that every language teacher is going to pass on what they think the language-IS as well as their own preferences and language-OUGHT stuff in relation to each learner's level.

    In the context of meaning and words, Luthiel said you "learn” your native language. This is not factually accurate because the process of learning a language is active, intentional and directed — in the same way, Muslim-OUGHT people are trying to redefine Muslim away from the two objective criteria above — when these things are absent in the case of anyone’s first language. In fact, a child knows the intonation of its first language in the womb according to intonation scholars such as David Crystal, Jane Setter and others. So more accurately, you acquire your first language without any conscious, active or directed effort.

    Therefore, whatever other language you currently have at your disposal is learnt and you speak it as a second language. Natural bilingualism (i.e. being born in a two-language household) doesn’t not weaken the case for acquisition here. An example to illustrate the material difference between learning and acquisition would be that if you are French (born and raised) and then you learnt and became fluent in Arabic and English, you still aren’t a native speaker of them. Thus, your intuitions aren’t admissible evidence in any linguistic inquiry into Arabic and English because you are neither valid nor representative a sample. That is of course if this academic inquiry seeks scientific thoroughness and uses things like methodological triangulation for fact checking the matter being rigorously investigated.
     
    Now, what elevates a variety of language to become a standard in the first place are not objective, factual criteria. Rather, these are due to socio-economic factors and in historical terms, successful militarism.

    For example, General British or what used to be known as ‘Received’ Pronunciation (<received> is a value judgement which in its Victorian sense means accepted) is not intrinsically better or more aesthetically pleasing to justify it being adopted as standard British English in all pronunciation dictionaries and for it being used as a model for learners of British English. (Scientifically speaking, there’s no such thing as “British English”, there are British Englishes including Standard Scottish English)

    My argument thus is not concerned with challenging the established standardness of a variety of a language. And it is not concerned with trying to strip off a mainstream denomination from its status because of the dubious or unjustified means by which it acquired it or it is being reasonably thought to have done so. Of course these things became what they are today through circumstances most of which can never ever be logical, ethical or based on meritocracy.

    No. My argument is against unilaterally redefining a concept and then deploying your heavy artillery in defence of its logical soundness as it is your past and current lived experience, and then you assert it is your freedom to call yourself whatever you want (= my interlocutors don’t seem to accept ‘live and let live’ for me in relation to Islam when they're likely to do in relation to Christianity). If it were a relaxed thought experiment as opposed to it being, at least in dear Hassan’s case, a declaration of change, it would not have given a cause for others like me to resist and question.

    Indeed, it seems to me that those who think that by becoming Ex Muslim they have suddenly been removed from their personal histories and culture, I say, it is these Ex Muslims that are the ones that it would otherwise seem to be trying to reconnect with their personal pasts insisting, by degrees, on the whole package minus divinity and prophethood, on most of the lovely stuff as well as on experiential stuff without which they wouldn’t know what or who they have or might become.

    Thus, I have sincerely argued against Ex Muslims indulging in what I called ‘extreme disassociation’ with Islam in my last topic in introduction section. Whether it is for personal and subjective reasons such as mental wellbeing in my particular case, or to not upset one’s Muslim parents anymore or to put a stop to what Durkheim in Suicide deems to be egotisic (i.e. a breakdown of social integration and excessive individuation) and anomic (i.e. excessive moral deregulation, which the sudden rush of freedom leaving Islam made some of us at least feel initially) reasons for people’s self-slaughter. I say, it does not matter why anyone of us should yearn to his or her former world in which Islam preponderated.

    I genuinely believe it would be unduly harsh of me to say this is like the freed trying to shackle themselves in servility because they had no recollection of prior to that identity and having being freed, do not have any developed way of thus just be; and, of living post the trauma of Islam because it's taken up decades of their lives. I personally do not think I have lived a life I have chosen myself for more than 5 years, and I'm reaching my third decade in a month's time.

    It is so fucked up it makes me want to weep. In some ways, it is like finding out through a simple DNA test that your 11 year child isn’t biologically yours. You had always wanted a child of your blood, you never intended to raise somebody else’s child. Nobody can blame you for wanting this anymore than anybody could blame a woman for wanting to become a mother through giving birth. Is it unethical of you to stop caring and relating to this child as a father thereafter? Is it wrong to still want a child that is biologically yours on purely particularistic grounds? Suppose in this case, the mother of the child did honestly believe the child to be yours and you had known about her affairs and had 'forgiven her'. Thus, you are not a victim of willful deception on the mother’s part. What can you do to deal with the trauma of finding out this distressing truth given your natural preference?

    The objective fact of this child being not yours does not cancel, or change the subjective truth of your lived history and experience in relation to this child.  How do you deal with the trauma of finding out the facts?

    I really wish I knew. I really do. What I don’t find as a proper or logical way of dealing with the facts is to simply don’t acknowledge their existence or, motivated by the experiential trauma, you question their legitimacy and start doubting the scientific-ness of DNA tests.

    In relation to Ex Muslim, the method through which the falsity of Islam has been reached varies from one Ex Muslim to another and this process is not even in the league of DNA. I am oversimplifying and just drawing an analogy here to make a point about what anyone of us can do as we face these inescapable facts in relation to Islam lacking two things; Allah's divinity and Muhammad's prophethood.

    I personally have never had any conscious desire to practise Islam again since I left it. I'm still in the process of finding out what I am without the religion of Islam, though. I never needed to open the Quran to read it again, maybe because I still remember it and can easily locate any verse I happen to be talking about (I use Almaktaba Alshamela for purposes of Islamic research in Arabic which I rarely undertake these days, the 6111 book library is freely available here http://shamela.ws/index.php).

    Somebody recently asked me this question "I want to be Ex Muslim, can you help?". Based on what I took the question to mean, I said I can't because I don't know that it means to be an Ex Muslim. Which made me think of the Moroccan philosophers Ibn Rushd or Averroes, and the Islamic reformist Mohammed Abed al-Jabri because their approach to finding out truths was not to add more stuff but, like a sculptor, to remove and subtract. To reduce things as much as possible to their indivisible whatness and then put them back together if you can.

    --------------------------
    Updated and proofread.
  • Why must Maryam Namazie take on the left in her critiques of Islamic extremism?
     Reply #123 - March 21, 2016, 08:23 PM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2rd8rRQqe0
  • Why must Maryam Namazie take on the left in her critiques of Islamic extremism?
     Reply #124 - March 22, 2016, 01:10 PM

    ................... the problem of Islamic violent extremists.,  is it contentual or contextual? .... ..

     let me add those words of Wahhabist to this today's news..  The news  few mts ago says
    Quote
    Brussels terror attacks: American Airlines confirm all staff survived suicide bomber blast that targeted check-in desk killing 15

    American Airlines have confirmed that all of their staff survived a suicide bomber blast that targeted their check-in desk killing 14 people. The suicide attack came as at least 34 were killed and 90 injured in blasts at Brussels airport and Maalbeek metro station.

    Earlier reports suggested that the incident could have deliberately targeted American Airlines. One of the bombs went off at a desk on row 8 of the departure hall, where the airline has four check-in desks.

    Local media reported that one blast was at a desk reserved to take payments for overweight luggage. Another blast was reportedly at the nearby Starbucks cafe.

    So there was a suicide attack and that was against  words like  "America.....AMRIKA  "."...Starbucks cafe..."..   whatever..and that happened in Brussels's airport today.,  folks sitting there who are nothing to do but doing their routine travel/jobs died there .. and there families will  suffer for rest of their life

    Question to answer now is, Those brutal acts of rogues   is it  contentual or contextual? .

    Is it Quran/haidth and other Islamic preaching??  contentual??

     or is it . Words of  Donald Trump and other republican party members and action of Obama Government and  Policies past  American governments ??contextual?

    Who knows answer to that question??

    Errr., answer is....... Allah  knows the best..... you stupid.  Allah already knew that., In fact it is predestined .. Allah already wrote/noted in a book..

    stupid faith heads... silly religions..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Why must Maryam Namazie take on the left in her critiques of Islamic extremism?
     Reply #125 - August 02, 2016, 04:55 PM

    Maryam takes on the left again.

    "Multiculturalism rots brains": an interview with Maryam Namazie
    Quote
    It goes back to a point that has been made by Kenan Malik, that with the rise of identity politics, solidarity is now either with identities or against identities rather than with ideals, social and political movements, and dissenters. But it’s quite clear cut: if I side with humanity, then it’s very easy to be anti-Islamism, anti-imperialism, anti-racism, and pro-universal rights. In fact, it makes perfect sense. The left can’t be against one kind of fascism, but then defend another kind of fascism, the Islamists. Similarly, the far right only feigns to care about women’s rights when Islam is involved. They’re quite happy if abortion clinics are being bombed or Planned Parenthood’s funding is being cut. In that kind of politics, there’s no consistency. But when you have a politics that’s centered on the human being, not culture, not religion, not limited self-interest, that’s left politics and what the left has traditionally stood for. Unfortunately, with decades of multiculturalism and cultural relativism, the brains of many people on the left have completely rotted; cultural relativism is in the DNA of much of the left now.

  • Why must Maryam Namazie take on the left in her critiques of Islamic extremism?
     Reply #126 - August 02, 2016, 05:58 PM

    Maryam takes on the left again.

    "Multiculturalism rots brains": an interview with Maryam Namazie

     But when you have a politics that’s centered on the human being, not culture, not religion, not limited self-interest, that’s left politics and what the left has traditionally stood for. Unfortunately, with decades of multiculturalism and cultural relativism, the brains of many people on the left have completely rotted; cultural relativism is in the DNA of much of the left now.


    that is what happens to any one who gets radicalized by right wing left wing middle wing communist who leaves the faith when they are in teens ..  faith hater    finmad finmad

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Why must Maryam Namazie take on the left in her critiques of Islamic extremism?
     Reply #127 - August 07, 2016, 09:17 AM

    On the surface of it, maybe. But dig deeper and religion is about the use of stories, symbolism and abstract concepts that then become codified in order to influence or control behavior. Figuring out how the spell works doesn’t necessarily free one from it.

    I'm beginning to become of the opinion that reinterpreting the symbols might be more effective than casting them away all together.


     Afro

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Why must Maryam Namazie take on the left in her critiques of Islamic extremism?
     Reply #128 - August 07, 2016, 09:27 AM

    ...

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Why must Maryam Namazie take on the left in her critiques of Islamic extremism?
     Reply #129 - August 07, 2016, 01:16 PM



    Her interview was boss, and the headline, is as usual, skewed and misleading.

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
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