Hi!

Previous page 1 2 34 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
- asbie
- Actually just a dude
- Poster of the Month
- Past, present, future...
- offline
Hi!
Reply #60 - June 13, 2016, 01:01 AM

Quote from: BerberElla on May 24, 2016, 02:26 PM
lose your wealth? I'm not sure most of us care about that sort of thing.

Wait, hold on. If one can lose wealth via apostasy, is it also possible to lose negative wealth in the same way? Inquiring minds would like to know!

Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
how fuck works without shit??

Let's Play Chess!

harakaat, friend, RIP
- AutumnButterfly
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Hi!
Reply #61 - June 13, 2016, 02:19 AM

@Ursus My dad and step mom had Christian backgrounds. They never really believed in Christianity because of the "Jesus is the son of god" thing. Dad got into Islam via the Nation of Islam and then left it for Sunni Islam after he married my mom. NOI's brand of Islam is...bizarre to say the least . My step mom got influenced by some of her Muslim friend. My mother was raised as a NOI Muslim and then became Sunni, the same time my father did.

My dad has been Muslim for 20+ years. While my step mom has almost 10 years under her belt.
- afghan hassan
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Hi!
Reply #62 - June 13, 2016, 03:47 AM

^That is my point, Your parents benefited from freedom to make their own decisions on their spirituality and their religion and they are thankful their parents gave them that, ask them if you should have that freedom too.

And if they say while that is true BUT Islam IS THE WORD OF GOD, you follow it up with, you parents had their own views of what is TRUE, but they let you make your own decisions too, I have tried but it is not for me, so give me the same freedom you enjoyed when you were my age, lest you want to be viewed as a hypocrite in the eyes of God!

-That last bit is a bit dramatic, but still the idea sands on its merit

As a scientist I can see farther than any human before me by standing on the shoulders of giants (previous scientists); As a religious follower I can not see what is right in-front of me, even when others INDEPENDENTLY see the same thing!
- Ursus
- Godless heathen
- Member
- offline
Hi!
Reply #63 - June 13, 2016, 10:36 AM

Hassan put it beatifully.

Don't aim for conflict, they have supplied your leverage.
(And wait until they are eating and sleeping like normal people again)

Apart from that, it is very hard to use rational arguments when discussing irrational beliefs.
- Nowt
- Member
- Agnostic ex-Catholic
- offline
Hi!
Reply #64 - June 13, 2016, 10:59 AM

Apart from that, it is very hard to use rational arguments when discussing irrational beliefs.

That's a really important point. I suspect that many people on this forum lost their faith because the religious doctrines made no sense, but only minority are that rational and open minded, usually people cherry pick logical arguments to support what they emotionally believe. Moral arguments tend to be a bit more effective.

It doesn't just apply to religion, I consider that the rational arguments and evidence for remaining in the EU are overwhelming, but virtually all the Brexit Leave supporters I have talked to are suffused with a distorted patriotism, especially as Middle England feels ignored by the globalising elites.
- AutumnButterfly
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Hi!
Reply #65 - June 13, 2016, 11:00 AM

@Afghan Hassan: That is a good idea but my parents are cemented into their beliefs...so I don't know if I should test the waters again. They honestly believe that there is nothing out there for me Islam.

Even though they will always treat the non-Muslims in my family as well family...I know they would treat me different because I was raised Muslim so it would seen as if I "rebelled". I know that they would be incredibly bothered if I rejected to wear hijab...that would be ugly.
So, while they accept that they can't force me to come back to Islam, They will not support my decision at all and I will be the black sheep. I think I can tolerate their disapproval given time. But I'm afraid they make me cut ties with my siblings or have them shun me since I will certainly influence them.
- afghan hassan
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Hi!
Reply #66 - June 13, 2016, 04:33 PM

^Your parents sound just like most islamic parents (certain of their beliefs).

Consider waiting till ramadan is over when they aren't so religious and have had some time to come back to reality and have food in their system (glucose in blood to supply brain with its energy source to think) and kind of skim around modern times being A BIT different from Muhammad times, in the mean time, kind of slowly become less practicing.

I do not want to risk possibly being shunned or losing my ties with my younger sibling, so I act less religious, but my parents know I LOVE SCIENCE AND EVIDENCE, no matter where it takes me, and I just kind of push the islamic rules back with my evidence against it, I dont go all out, every now and then I just start a normal convo and point to evidence pushing islam and saying, ALLAH says to use our brains, that is why he gave it to us, it would be disrespectful to not use the blessing (intellect) God gave us lol. They all agree, from this leverage I push back a few rules here and there.

Luckily my siblings are super religious and I used to be super religious, my parents agree with my siblings but they want us to be like me (acting normal), so I tell them religion is good for spirituality (I dont believe in it, it's just to get them to think I am kind of like them), and I say we live our lives using evidence and reason. I remind them how when I was religious I was insane like my siblings now and I say now I use some religion and some evidence, they agree.

I also point out they use science every time it agrees with science and not when it disagrees which is hypocritical, they kind of agree.

I ask them who is more practical me (religion as little as possible and evidence mostly for how to live life), or my siblings (religion only, when science and religion are together great, if either disagree, shut your brain off and follow religion), and they see how religion makes people irrational in my siblings but they do not see it in themselves, and they say my siblings are more practical but I can see them being uncomfortable, deep down they know I am more practical but they dont want to commit Shirk by saying I am; this helps my case.

I will not come out of the closet because it is a risk I am not willing to take, but my way of being less religious ONLY WORKS because they see me as the most logical person in the house who just uses evidence to solve any problem even if it means twisting some religious rules here and there because I say "Islam is malleable, it is not supposed to be rigid, why are you guys making it rigid, God understands us", and this is enough for them to calm down again. I tell them times have changed and people do not need to cover their head because we live in a safe society, here women aren't getting raped left right and center; and they actually agree with me, I tell them look, God only prescribes what is good for us, but times change and he knows that that is why he didn't make it rigid so we could adjust to different times, he knew there is no one size fits all, why are you guys twisting his message by making rules that are not needed anymore.
They actually listen to me.

I ride on Allah being easy for us, and Islam being a way of life and not tons of strict rules, and it is insulting to God for us to not think, (Quran says and do they not think). This is enough for me to make my case and recently my parents started taking my side over my siblings even if they had religion on their side because I have proven we need to use reason. I can never say something like reason also says due to a lack of evidence for Allah I can not accept him, that is too much but they do agree we need to use reason.

Try using that and also remember during ramadan due to stress on their body and low blood glucose their brains are not able to think as deeply and critically, nor are they able to have as much control over their emotions as they normally would. It seems you have to bite the bullet for ramadan and then slowly start testing the waters again, use the Quran against them like I did (do they not think, Islam is not rigid, Allah gave us a brain to use, not to return to him still in its box lol), If they try to change by saying where in the Quran does it say that, say it is common knowledge and If I asked where in the Hadith does it tell you how to do pray you could not tell me either, but we still know, due to common knowledge.

When people get uncomfortable they start changing the topic, don't let them do that, press the whole using our brains and say that was the cause of the islamic Golden age (INTELLECT and the destruction of it was blind faith), and most importantly, MAKE SURE YOUR TONE DOES NOT SEEM AT ALL HOSTILE, SEEM REASONABLE, CONSIDER WHAT THEY SAY, DO NOT BRUSH IT OFF AND DONT LET THEM BRUSH OFF WHAT YOU.

It seems becoming less religious is a safer path for you than apostasy, that may be too risky, losing siblings may not be necessary when you have logic on your side.

Oh and try to bee cheery and content, around them, people who are happy positively affect the people around them. Lets be honest, religious people are often gloomy and strict and stuff, but if you are always content and reasonable, people will gravitate towards you (parents) and they will listen to you more and more, no one wants to be around pessimistic people. Oh and always kind of just throw it out there when you hear about something big we learned from science and say, u see: Logic it always works, that is why we have air conditioning or whatever, and make sure they understand and FEEL like you are just playfully teasing them now and then, and not being hostile.

Nothing will end the conversation faster than Hostility, that is why street preachers act all charismatic and funny and stuff, it works to keep the conversation going, be fun around your parents too.

Hope that answers the question lol (sorry had to add that zakir naik line at the end)

As a scientist I can see farther than any human before me by standing on the shoulders of giants (previous scientists); As a religious follower I can not see what is right in-front of me, even when others INDEPENDENTLY see the same thing!
- AutumnButterfly
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Hi!
Reply #67 - June 13, 2016, 09:35 PM

@AfghanHassan Hmm, maybe I should wait after Ramadan? If I do try to try to test the waters again, I am not sure what angle I should use. I'll definitely use logic though.

* I don't using scientific angle would work on them. If they are willing to believe that Adam was 6 cubic feet tall and was made of clay and the inbreeding between Adam's children somehow started the human race, then I don't know if I would much progress. However, when it comes to evolution, they sort of accept it but they think it only applies to animals. I have tried to explain to my mom that today's apes are more like our really close cousins rather than our direct ancestors (I don't know how accurate that is though..) she didn't really budge.

* I'm was thinking about questioning Allah motives behind giving us a "test", and his omniscience. I know I'm treading really thin ice with this one but as long as I don't make it appear questioning Allah existence or his authority, I also want to cast doubt on Allah mercifulness but think that might be too much

* I was also wondering if I should question the Qur'an authenticity and perfection as well as it comprehensives. Since my parent are Sunni, they would argue that you have to supplement the Qur'an with the hadith and sunnah in order to get the true meaning of the Qur'an. I would argue that if the Qur'an was intended to be the ultimate guide to humanity...why do we need to use supplementary material to understand it and why certain Islamic customs like praying 5 times a day and how women should cover are either absent or not explained in depth.

* The easiest route for me to go would be the feminist/egalitarian route. I have a lot of evidence to use but since my parents more of less either accept or believe in the gender roles (and by proxy, sexism) that Islam perpetuates. When I told my stepmother that the had it where Muhammad sent a battered woman back to her husband because she shouldn't have refused to have sex with the latter bothered me. My step mom said that while a wife should (almost) always be willing to fulfill her husband's sexual needs. However, she says she has no answer as to why Muhammad would send a woman back to the danger she tried to escape from...she admitted she didn't really have answer for soo maybe I made an iota of progress when it come to criticizing things in a feminist legs at least.
- afghan hassan
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Hi!
Reply #68 - June 14, 2016, 05:41 AM

^If your parents are not forthcoming with the logic, talking about Allah's omniscience and mercy is WAY TOO FAR,

I think you should make it seem like you are on their side. Rather that going after the religion head on, only deal with things that affect you and not worry too much about theology or semantics. It seems that they really put Islam on a pedestal and look down at anything else (logic or science contrary to Islam), it seems like your only hope is to talk level headed with them, initiate the conversations with them and try as much as possible talking to them as their kid. Do not go after Islam unless they bring Islam up, and when they do, try to almost brush off what they say, if they persist, whip out some Islam that is on your side. This is where Islamic apologetic arguments and r/islam (reddit) will come in handy. During this month peruse both of them and look for justifications for thinking and intellect and things like that.

If they love Islam so much, you can only use the bizarre arguments from apologetics, remember as absurd as they are, they think like most muslims and muslims cling onto their words (at some point many of us were like that, we know their arguments work because we did not understand the laws of logic, that is fine because your parents do not know the laws to logic either so you can twist more on your side) you need to find any and all justification in Islam on your side of kids growing up and learning from mistakes and no compulsion in religion (bringing people to islam or enforcing islam on current "muslims"), hopefully your parents do not know their religion as well as most secularists or you will will be arguing with someone who knows the religion inside out.

Also look for those cringe worthy muslim feminists and look for their justifications grounded in Hadith, Seerah, or Tafsir and Quran. You gotta fight fire with fire here, and conveniently your parents love their religion.

If they try to abandon the text at all by trying to say anything along the lines of, "yeah but it is ok, that rule is not so important", you need to pounce on that opportunity and call them out on their abandoning of the faith and say if you want to abandon that then why keep the rest of the Deen (say it is a way of life, no cherry picking, you either take the whole thing as a package or drop the whole thing, it says, there is a grave sin for innovation or changing the Deen from the way it was revealed ie Bid'ah). You really need to know their religion well (the part that agrees with you atleast lol), they love their deen so put them in the position where they are becoming uncomfortable the religion is agreeing with you and opposing them, when you sense them not feeling comfortable, ease back into logic, you will put them in an uncomfortable state opposing the religion, that is your opportunity to jump in and let them use their intellect by using logic. At that point of feeling guilty opposing the religion, they will drop their guard and will not realize that you will be able to get them to think; they will not fight their intellect thinking it is whispering from shaytan, instead they will think this is divine understanding from God and they are more likely to reason because now they need to return to the "fold of islam".

It is sad we need to trick our parents to get them to think, but this is the product of their own decisions as sad as that may be.

Yes this month needs to be spent learning the religion, it will seem like you are becoming more religious learning about the Straight Path lol, realistically you will be divising an attack right under their noses and they will be praising you for doing it during your research.

Oh and when you prove to them Allah is egalitarian lol and they try to use any push back by saying talk to the imam, say "no, the Deen is easy, why are you making it hard for me to follow my religion lol"

As a scientist I can see farther than any human before me by standing on the shoulders of giants (previous scientists); As a religious follower I can not see what is right in-front of me, even when others INDEPENDENTLY see the same thing!
- Ursus
- Godless heathen
- Member
- offline
Hi!
Reply #69 - June 14, 2016, 01:04 PM

I'm with Afghan Hassan on this one.

Avoid open battle, use salami tactics instead.

They love you, you love them.... you just get more and more independent.

Salami tactics take a bit more work and thought, but it is a lot less conflict prone.

Alternative salami tactics is to wave the sausage in peoples face, telling them that
Quote
I know what you're thinking: "Is that a sausage?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I've kinda lost track myself. But being a well greased 2 foot long rod of fine Italian hog flesh, the most powerful piece of meat in the world, and I'm clearly telling you where to stick it, you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, punk?

But that has a tendency to escalate the situation.
- AutumnButterfly
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Hi!
Reply #70 - June 14, 2016, 04:44 PM

Yeah, it would be bad to pursue an outright debate. That wouldn't do me any good. I think I can utilize the salami tactics to the best of my ability.
Soo, I have three people to talk to...my mother, my stepmother and my father. The easiest to talk to would be my stepmother since she is the most open and I don't have to worry about her changing the topic or shutting my responses down. The hardest will be my mother... I know she will pull the "disagreeing with the Qur'an means being disobedient to Allah" card since she has done it before. If she feels uncomfortable or feels that I am going to far, she will try to stop the conversation or change the subject. If I continue to pursue the topic, she will either tell me to be quiet or she will just kick me out of her room. I'm only speaking in general. I never really analyzed the Qur'an/Hadith with her, I don't think...so she is generally like that with touchy subjects.

She also has a bad habit of voicing her opinions over mine, which doesn't promote progress...

But I may find common ground if I used the feminist/egalitarian lens and discussed marital rights...but only if it connects to her/our personal life. Even then I doubt I would get far
- Ursus
- Godless heathen
- Member
- offline
Hi!
Reply #71 - June 14, 2016, 08:53 PM

But that is wawing the two feet sausage!

Smile, say "yes, mother dear".... and do as you please a bit at the time.
- AutumnButterfly
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Hi!
Reply #72 - June 14, 2016, 10:35 PM

Oh I suppose it is haha.

I guess I'll read the Qur'an and leaf through Sahih Bukhari for material...ugh.
- cellphone2016
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Hi!
Reply #73 - June 15, 2016, 10:59 AM

Mother and step mother ...
Typical common Muslim dad.
Having fun with 2 womem
- AutumnButterfly
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Hi!
Reply #74 - June 15, 2016, 11:11 AM

My parents aren't married anymore and that has nothing to do with anything.
- cellphone2016
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Hi!
Reply #75 - June 15, 2016, 11:17 AM

Ooh okay.
I have same kind of thing in my family too.
Step mother, step bros and sis.

But I have no contact with them any more

I have left muslims.
- AutumnButterfly
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Hi!
Reply #76 - June 18, 2016, 11:06 AM

Hey, so um, looks like I don't have to hide anymore.

After Fajr, my dad called me over so we can talk about my faith in Islam. He asked a few yes and no questions like "do you believe in Allah?", "Do you believe that Muhammad is the last messenger". "Do you want to be Muslim?". "Do I think I'm Muslim.. although my initial reaction was to say "I don't know" I managed to say no. He was very calm about everything. He said that if I don't believe, that there is no need to hide and that praying and fasting will mean nothing and that I will just be wasting my time trying to keep up appearances. He explained that knowing the status of my faith with let him found out the best way to help me or banish my doubts. But he says if I'm not uncertain and that if I don't want "help", that he will leave me alone and he'll continue to advise and show me to the "true" path.

He also said that while he doesn't agree with my decision that I will always be his daughter and he won't stop loving me or put me out because of what I believe....so I feel stupid that I even thought I was at risk of being kicked out. My father said that will naturally spend more time with my younger siblings than me because they want to be Muslim and he wants to raise them that way. If they chose to leave like I will, he says that they (and I) will only responsible for the consequences of my actions.

I'm frustrated that I wasn't giving him definite answers to his questions or explained why I don't believe in Allah. He's probably frustrated too...but at least he gave me a chance to write my feeling down on paper so I can show him later today.

Now, I will have to come out to my mom...won't be as easy but I have to
- puzzlelover
- Member
- offline
Hi!
Reply #77 - June 18, 2016, 01:31 PM

Congrats AutumnB. Your Dad is a real decent man. I hope it goes well with your mum.
- jrg
- Member
- offline
Hi!
Reply #78 - June 18, 2016, 09:12 PM

AutumnButterfly, that's truly great news! Wow. I'm struggling to type. Congratulations, if that's the right thing to say.

You really, really shouldn't feel stupid or think you shouldn't have been cautious. You were ABSOLUTELY right to tread carefully and this is probably why your father took the approach he did. Had you gone in looking for a fight, so to speak, you'd likely have got one, although it probably wouldn't have been catastrophic. At least, not as far as your dad is concerned.

Let's hope your mum is as understanding. There is of course, no need to tell her immediately. If you're concerned about how she'll react your dad may well be too. Give it time to be digested, then perhaps talk to your dad about the best way to approach telling mum.

Really great news. Well done, AutumnButterfly.
- maybe
- Member
- offline
Hi!
Reply #79 - June 18, 2016, 09:24 PM

Congrats!
- AutumnButterfly
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Hi!
Reply #80 - June 18, 2016, 09:28 PM

I plan to talk to her in person..

I talked to my stepmother about it not too long ago. She didn't think that I sounded affirmative about my disbelief and that my explanation was a cop-out and that she thought I didn't give Islam a good chance or didn't try to increase my knowledge of it but she accepted it. She said I had to wear hijab in front of the children so they won't follow my example and that I'm not allowed to bring guys or boyfriends in the house, which is fine with me.

But anyways, thank you! yes it was good news. I truly did have best outcome (so far...need to talk to my mother), even though I kept thinking about the worst one. I feel relieved that I no longer have to hide anything being bad at it already... although I'm still not very happy, I can move on with my life without lies.

Now I have to adjust to not being Muslim anymore. I thinks I'll still cover for a few days until I feel comfortable enough and that I have to explain to others that despite my "Muslim" name, I'm not one... but everything will fall into place.
- jrg
- Member
- offline
Hi!
Reply #81 - June 18, 2016, 10:45 PM

The way your stepmother reacted is just the same as my wife when we talked about my doubts, before she knew and accepted that I'm not practicing (except for [almost always] sticking to a halal diet). I had the whole "you're not giving it enough of a chance" thing. Thing is, what seems clear in our heads, just doesn't carry weight with people who truly believe (or at least, believe they believe) in Islam. There's far too much apologetics and brainwashing, for logical and reason-based arguments to get through. So for us, the past year has been a kind of no man's land of my wife practicing and me not, but neither of us brave enough to deal with the elephant in the room.

But that's for me to work through, after eid. Wouldn't be fair to talk a out it now. And anyway this is your thread, so I'll stop going on about me now

One thing I will say though, although you're no longer hiding your apostasy, your parents will still be holding on to the hope that this is a phase that you'll get through. Of course, it isn't. But that doesn't mean you have a free pass to flaunt your apostasy how you like. If it helps keep the peace, leave the street before taking off your hijab. Buy the halal meat for the family meals. Basically, and I'm sure you'll do this anyway, but show that although you no longer believe, you still respect your parents' faith in Allah and Islam. Make it as easy as possible for them to accept and hopefully you'll have a relatively smooth journey out of the family way if life. Because that's what it is to them, their deen.
- jrg
- Member
- offline
Hi!
Reply #82 - June 18, 2016, 10:48 PM

Meant to say as well, I didn't mean to suggest you don't talk to your mother yourself. But your dad will probably have an idea of how to approach the subject. Whether you want to take his suggestions on board is of course, up to you.
- AutumnButterfly
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Hi!
Reply #83 - June 18, 2016, 11:24 PM

@jrg It's ok, I didn't really consider asking him because I didn't think he would say much more than "just be honest and upfront with her" in a respectful way. Of course I don't what his suggestion would be...but he did give me the choice of him telling her or me telling..I decided it would be better if it was me.

A year ago, I told her I had doubts about Islam and she said she didn't know why I would consider other paths that send me to hell. She said the best thing I can be is a Muslim and basically said I might lose my morals if I leave. So I know she would be hurt and angry at me. My dad and step mom were clearly disappointed and thought I was rejecting "the truth" but they showed no signs of anger and more or less accepted me. I will be living with my mother for freshman year of college (I might get a dorm later or even second semester if possible), I don't how she would react but I might handle it. The least she would do is put me on silent treatment or avoid me. But it'd be bad for me to expect the worse again
- jrg
- Member
- offline
Hi!
Reply #84 - June 19, 2016, 12:00 AM

You've made the right decision to tell your mom yourself. That's for sure. But, how much you tell her, when and where, are all undecided. I don't know how much you have/will tell your dad in the letter you mentioned above, or how much your mother and father talk, but I get the impression you can take things a bit quicker with your dad.

Perhaps drip feeding your mom with your actual apostasy would be wise, especially if you'll be moving in with her. Your mom said she doesn't understand why you'd choose a path (presumably any path) that would lead you to hell. Depending how your relationship is, and how open your parents are about their past, maybe you could remind her that, whilst she's known an alternative to Islam, you yourself have been a Muslim your whole life. So it's not (for your mom's sake) that you're outright rejecting Islam (and how she raised you), it's that you have questions and things you need to figure out, for yourself, in your own time. And as part of that, you are (again for her sake) taking a break from practicing to give yourself some emotional and spiritual space.

---

Hmm.. seems you're not the only one who can ramble on a bit

I'll finish with a quote from three, on the first page of this thread:
Quote from: three on May 27, 2016, 02:41 AM
Just be careful and patient. It will work out.

Now I must sleep, it's pretty late here. Take care AB.
- AutumnButterfly
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Hi!
Reply #85 - June 19, 2016, 02:39 AM

Haha, well at least your ramblings aren't unnecessary.

I think I will consider using that method with my mother maybe taking things slowly would help. Hopefully she won't shut me down like she usually does.

My apostasy baffles my stepmother (she thinks exterior reasons like my depression might have been the cause of it) and I don't think I explained my stance as an agnostic theist well anyways. From my second conversation with her, I found that she expects to "be Muslim" around the family and that she has no idea how we would handle my relationships/marriages, future eids, or my funeral...

Well, anyways, it is good to know I'm still family even though I will be treated differently.
- Ursus
- Godless heathen
- Member
- offline
Hi!
Reply #86 - June 19, 2016, 06:32 AM

Congrats!

Give your father a big hug too!

"I don't agree, but I love you and respect you" shows that he is a human and a parent first, religious second.
- jrg
- Member
- offline
Hi!
Reply #87 - June 19, 2016, 07:22 AM

Quote from: AutumnButterfly on June 19, 2016, 02:39 AM
Haha, well at least your ramblings aren't unnecessary.

No ramblings are unnecessary. If nothing else, they build a picture and make you human

Quote
My apostasy baffles my stepmother (she thinks exterior reasons like my depression might have been the cause of it)

I think it's more likely the polar opposite: I'm convinced that Islam is the primary cause of many, many cases of depression in the Muslim population.

Quote
and I don't think I explained my stance as an agnostic theist well anyways.

can't stress enough, take things slowly. I know it's not necessarily what you want. You're young, you're also in a generation that is used to getting things quick. But these people are your family and you need them by your side. It's an investment that will pay off - I've seen firsthand the results of parents disowning a child. The pain never goes away.

Quote
From my second conversation with her, I found that she expects to "be Muslim" around the family and that she has no idea how we would handle my relationships/marriages, future eids, or my funeral...

Being Muslim around the family, as you've already touched upon, is probably for the best. Could be a double edged sword for you, too: you'll keep your parents (including your step mom) on your side, and it may give you a more solid foundation of respect with your siblings, come the inevitable conversations about faith and apostasy, as they get old enough to start asking questions.

Perhaps plan the steps you'll take. Of course for this Eid and perhaps next, you'll do nothing different. Dress up, keep covering, go to the family events, pray when people expect you to (but don't lead prayer if pushed, make an excuse, say you need to take wudu again, anything to get out of it). Then next Ramadhan comes and you've already paved the way for not fasting and not praying tarawih and not going to (every) family iftar. Take your mom and step mom (on separate occasions) clothes shopping, looking for long, modest dresses etc, that they'll find modest and not offensive. Be explicit about looking for clothing that you'll wear instead of the abaya. Go out with them again a few days later, covering and wearing hijab, but wearing the dress they helped you choose but without your abaya over the top.

It's all about being clever, just how the apologists and sheikhs are when they're explaining things. Use the same tactics to keep your parents on your side, whilst showing them (more than telling them) you're serious.[/quote]

Quote
Well, anyways, it is good to know I'm still family even though I will be treated differently.

Absolutely. And may your experience be a reassurance for, and provide confidence to, others who find themselves in a similar situation to yours.
- Hsnake
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Hi!
Reply #88 - June 21, 2016, 08:27 PM

Hi there Autumn.

I'm also new and intoduced myself here: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?action=profile;u=8456

It's wise to not come out so quickly and breach your support network. Build your own foundation and use it as runway to eventually achieve flight!
- AutumnButterfly
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Hi!
Reply #89 - June 22, 2016, 01:25 AM

^I didn't mean to come out at this time. My father just asked me questions about my faith and I couldn't lie about them. It was obvious that I didn't believe anymore.

Anyway, I talked to my mother today. It wasn't really a talk, she already knew about my apostasy via my father. I didn't really have to say anything She said that I should try to look for a place to stay (when I get a job, she wants me to look for one) as she doesn't want a "disbeliever" in the house and that I know what where I'll end up eventually and that I apparently can't be buried.

When I said I wasn't going to leave and that I won't be looking for another place, she said I didn't have a say in that because she pays the rent and its her house and since I'm 19 she's not responsible for me.

A few days ago, my father said that he won't let her put me out but I don't know how he would convince her to keep me.

I feel numb but I was expecting this.

EDIT: My father said that he will talk to my mother and that I shouldn't worry about gettin a job since school should be my top priority. He says in my second semester that I could try applying for a dorm or I could transfer schools so that I would live with him. I chose the former. He tried told me to keep my head about the whole thing, which is something I'm struggling to do but some optimism would do me some good
On an unrelated note, he asked me if I was seeing anyone and that if I was, would tell him about it. I replied no and yes... which were both lies so now I feel horrible about that.
Previous page 1 2 34 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »