Read my message again Shit brains.
I said what is MORE IMPORTANT IS FOR YOU TO PROVE THE DIVINITY OF THE QURAN.
Like I said before Scientific Inaccuracies are LESS IMPORTANT, because even if we discuss the science in the Quran, even if you could convince me there is no error, I could not become a muslim.
This is because the most important issue you need to rectify is how to establish Divine Origin.
If you could prove Divine origins of the quran I would be willing to discuss Scientific errors, until YOU PROVE THE QURAN CAME FROM GOD, any other discussion is fruitless.
Once again WE HAVE NO EXPERIENCE OR UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT IS DIVINE BECAUSE WE ARE STUCK IN THE PHYSICAL WORLD. How will you prove Divinity, You believe Quran is from God, I am saying "I DON'T KNOW WHAT GOD IS, CAN YOU DESCRIBE GOD WITHOUT LENDING TO ISLAM AND USING EVIDENCE? THEN CAN YOU PROVE THE QURAN CAME FROM GOD"?
Listen up Muslim instead of snickering why don't you show us how smart you are, you are among the few muslims brave enough to traverse this forum so you must have full conviction in your belief and you must think you are intelligent enough to convince us, so why don't we see what you can do,
Lest you are not willing to look at your beliefs from an unbiased view and objectively ask yourself how you can prove it is from God when you do not know what God is. Don't use circular logic, don't tell me the Quran tells you what God is therefore it must be true. Suppose you are not muslim and you pick up the quran and read it, how would you establish it is from divine origin when you have never experienced Divinity, I do not know therefore god is facetious.
Unless, you are not allowed to think this deep because the fucking devil is whispering in your ear "fucking kid grow up", do you believe in your faith that much that you are willing to scrutinize it yourself and see if you can even prove it to yourself?
If not, we know who the intelligent one is, and that would indicate it is not you.
Do you want to know why I left Islam, I believed it wholeheartedly and like you defended it around non-muslims, unlike you I did not make fun of anyone. I really believed the Quran was miraculous and could not be fallible, I believed in Islam so much I was not scared to scrutinize it from an unbiased view because I KNEW that I would Prove Islam true to myself. I knew the more I questioned the more sure I would be. Well I did question it and tried to see if the Quran could even prove the divine origin of itself, I was shocked that it did not rest on any argument even remotely sound.
I lowered my mental barriers and was willing to look at it from an object lens, that is why I consider myself intelligent, are you willing to do yourself the honour of looking at this faith from an unbiased view,, or are you too shaky in your imaan that you may leave the fold of Islam, or do you not care and only maintain Islam because you were born to it.
If you consider yourself at all intelligent and worth any of our time, tell us, are you willing to look at your Book as a skeptic not taking any sides and just following the evidence? If so, then PROVE DIVINITY, and don't tell me the Quran is divine because no one has produced a verse like it. That is an incredibly subjective test, and no way to determine if it is like the Quran, also Newton WROTE THE FIRST BOOK ON THE MOTION OF OBJECTS AND INVENTED FUCKING CALCULUS ON HIS OWN TO SOLVE HIS PHYSICS EQUATIONS. HE DID THIS ALL BEFORE TURNING 30. Does that make him divine because no one else to this day has been able to accomplish such a task in Science by age 30? Of course not, just because something has not been replicated does not prove divinity.
Also we do not know the limits of the Human brain, something happening rarely does not prove divinity, at best it shows someone was smart. And dont you dare ask me how Muhammad could be smart if he was illiterate, at that time people didn't read tons of books to become knowledgeable or intelligent, movement of ideas happened aurally.
PROVE DIVINITY, AND HOW DO YOU KNOW SUCH EVIDENCE INDICATES DIVINITY? WE HAVE NOT EXPERIENCED DIVINITY SO WE DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO LOOK FOR.
Let's see if you REALLY believe in your religion
Firstly, calm down with the insults. It doesn't make your argument any more stronger. I agree that even if there were no errors and contradictions, that doesn't prove that the Qur'an did come from a God. However, you have said that these errors and contradictions do exist, so that takes God out of the picture right away according to you, even though there are no errors and contradictions present in the Qur'an. Let's discuss this later.
Yes, we are in the physical world. Does this limit God's capability of allowing us to sense this feeling of divinity? Whether it'd be from a book or anywhere elsewhere? I don't think so. You also answered your own question, well part of it. The Holy Qur'an, [2:23] reads: ''And if you are in doubt about what We have sent down upon Our Servant [Muhammad], then produce a surah/chapter the like thereof and call upon your witnesses other than Allah, if you should be truthful''. This is a falsification test that the Holy Qur'an contains, (no other Holy Book contains this). Now, if a human would have said this, he would of have been seen as the most arrogant person it's as if he's so confident that this couldn't have come from no-one else, but other than God. If a human did say this, then he must have been very careful for what he wrote in the Holy Qur'an because if he's implying that it's God that is its author, (the source of the information) of this Book, then there must be no mistakes and errors, (whether linguistical, or mathematical - being the most common errors that you can find in the previous ''Holy'' Books such as: The Bible. For example, one verse in the Bible: 1 KI 4:26, Solomon had 40,000 stalls but 2 CH 9:25 says that Solomon only had 4,000 stalls. If this verse was in the Holy Qur’an, then we two can easily dismiss it, as there contains an error within it and God is flawless with whatever he does. The next verse from the Qur'an, 2:24 then ends with a confident statement, ''But if you do not -
and you will never be able to - then fear the Fire, whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers''. If a human did say this, then again, he must have been sure to not have written any mistakes in the Qur'an. Again, if a human did say this, then he would have known that the Qur'an could have been replicated to its level of content, (linguistically speaking in generally) so he would not have made this claim.
It's also not subjective. Have a good read here:
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Miracle/ijaz.html http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2005/response-to-claims-made-against-the-eloquence-of-the-quran/ There are also many other methods to prove this. I don't subscribe to these, but why not. Firstly, Allah presented in the Qur'an that the number 19 is a miraculous number. It's called, "One of the Mighty Ones" in verses 74:30-37. The verses 74:30-37 are in perfect match with the number 19 miracle, (2,185 is their total numerical value and it is equal to 19 X 115) and they're also in perfect match with the Qur'ans', "Key noble verse" - The Basmala. In both its total numerical value, 115, and total number of letters, which are 19 letters. The miracle is that these verses are correlating to each other and collectively make up the entire, 'story' that is being talked about. This numerical value is also divisible by the number 19, without leaving a remainder. More information here:
https://gyazo.com/7565a9d42528dae864b5bd2e5dcfbed7 https://gyazo.com/bddd0b99998b238a36a61b80af4c56ef https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvWAO_y3TNM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWRkYrjBiKw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmNgibcL3N0 Another method would be presenting how the chapter of, 'Nuh' (or Noah) is written in exactly 950 letters. Allah also said that Noah lived among his people for 950 years in the same chapter. This isn't, 'chance'. If it is, please tell your other atheists in this forum to disregard their own theories that they have tried to use against me in this thread. I have shown how they themselves use improbable theories when calculated of its probability. Moreover, another example of the same method is showing how the two divine promises made by Allah to the people of Israel, (about their first promise and future destruction) are equally numbered. The first promise is written in 75 words and 75 letters. The future destruction of Israel is also, written in 75 words and 75 letters. I must add, the future destruction promise may be talking about Israel being destroyed 75 years after its establishment, (in 1948 or 1967). The verses are found in 17:4-8 of the Qur'an. Lastly, another example are the nooraaniyyah letters, (the opening letters of several of the chapters of the Qur'an). As when they are all added together, they give us a total that is a multiple of the number 19, again, without any remainer. Not only that, but their total number would be 361. This is equal to 19 X 19.
Topic: Challenge