To Hell and Back: Interview with an Ex-Ex-Muslim

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- olweasel
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To Hell and Back: Interview with an Ex-Ex-Muslim
OP - September 16, 2016, 02:37 AM

Quote
About a year ago I came across an article on HuffPo that was a compilation of Ex-Muslims stating why they left Islam.

Taking their claims at face value, one thing immediately jumps out.

Most of them left Islam for emotional reasons. NOT rational.

I mean, seriously. You leave a religion because you can’t eat bacon?

Any ‘rational’ reasons for leaving the faith occur after the fact.

And even if they did have quote-unquote rational reasons, many of these were based on misunderstanding the religion.

Still, I don’t interact with Ex-Muslims on any significant level so I never had the opportunity to test my thesis. Until now.

As Destiny would have it, I met a Muslim who was an Ex-Ex-Muslim.

Let’s call her ‘A.’ [Insert the usual schpiel about protecting A’s identity.]

A was an active member of the Council of Ex-Muslims forum and an IRC chatroom for Ex-Muslims for over 3 years.

Eventually, she re-accepted Islam.

She agreed to an email interview which we conducted over several weeks.

In her answers, we will find much of ourselves and our communities.

It is my hope that by telling us about her journey, A will teach us how to deal with Ex-Muslims and doubting Muslims in a way that brings them back into the fold.

Because after all, as much as we hate disbelief we do want the best for all humanity - to die as Muslims and be granted entry into Paradise.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/57da536be4b04fa361d993b2?timestamp=1473931664116

"Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well."
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Reply #1 - September 16, 2016, 12:56 PM

Quote from: olweasel on September 16, 2016, 02:37 AM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/57da536be4b04fa361d993b2?timestamp=1473931664116
...........................................

"Because after all, as much as we hate disbelief we do want the best for all humanity - to die as Muslims and be granted entry into Paradise."... Nabeel Azeez

great Nabeel great... well come to this forum and buy the passports to your imaginary paradise to all these readers/members some of them are real ex-Muslims

And for that, I will pay money to clean shave you with a Labiaplasty surgery + pay for your HRT (hormone replacement therapy ) treatment . This I believe make you eligible to go to that eternal Islamic heaven The Jhanna as ALPHA male muslim and as well as ALPHA female muslim., off course we will also buy Niqab ... hairless head is ok... niqab covers up everything...

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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To Hell and Back: Interview with an Ex-Ex-Muslim
Reply #2 - September 16, 2016, 01:18 PM

what is this about
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Reply #3 - September 16, 2016, 01:44 PM

Quote from: Aftab on September 16, 2016, 01:18 PM
what is this about

wellyou got to read the link dear Aftab

Quote
N: Which ex-Muslim forum was this? Can you elaborate on why you call them ‘amazing people’? How amazing can they be? They are Ex-Muslims, after all.

A: Council of Ex-Muslims also known as CEMB. They’re amazing people because they were there for me when I needed someone the most. Endless hours of humour and discussion. Being able to rant to someone to let anger and frustration out. Someone was always there to listen. Even when I returned to Islam I kept logging in for around a year and I wasn’t treated any differently. They treated me better as a Muslim than many Muslims I knew treated me when I told them I was having doubts. That says it all really.

If being a theist, specifically an orthodox, religiously observant Muslim, automatically made you an amazing person and being atheist and/or ex-Muslim made you a bad person then surely KSA would be a more just and tolerant society than, say, Sweden? What I’m trying to say is, you worshipping one God, a thousand, a cow, an idol or nothing, has no bearing on how good or bad of a human you are. It could be a factor in your beliefs on what society should look like but it’s not guaranteed.

An ex-Muslim, like any atheist or agnostic, hasn’t transgressed against any person simply for their lack of belief. They may have transgressed against God but that’s up to God to decide, not man. And if you do believe they have transgressed against God and do believe God will hold them accountable then I don’t see why you would have any issue agreeing with what I said earlier - it has no link to how good or bad they are as a person.

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Reply #4 - September 16, 2016, 03:08 PM

I started reading the article by the link given and didn't have enough time to finish it. Whe I tried to get it later, it did not work. I think that Huff post removed the article.
Here is what some other people are saying about it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/52z2pg/to_hell_and_back_interview_with_an_exexmuslim/

The unreligion, only one calorie
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Reply #5 - September 16, 2016, 11:07 PM

Becoming The Alpha Muslim

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Reply #6 - September 16, 2016, 11:37 PM

The comments, for once, are interesting.

Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
how fuck works without shit??

Let's Play Chess!

harakaat, friend, RIP
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Reply #7 - September 17, 2016, 01:18 AM

Quote
A was an active member of the Council of Ex-Muslims forum and an IRC chatroom for Ex-Muslims for over 3 years.

Eventually, she re-accepted Islam.

The first member that comes to mind is chepea haha, but I don't think she's been here three years.
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Reply #8 - September 17, 2016, 02:18 AM

It's pretty clear who the member is if you know them, and it's not chepea.

It's a rather strange interview, with the interviewer and interviewee seeming as if they're talking to two different purposes. I really think she wanted to get her story out there, but I can't say I'm thrilled with the way she's gone about it (mostly who she gave the interview to).

Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
how fuck works without shit??

Let's Play Chess!

harakaat, friend, RIP
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Reply #9 - September 17, 2016, 08:47 AM

She seems too much for the politics of Islam rather than the spiritual. Sometimes I forget about the politics of Islam. Some have separated spiritual form political for a good reason.

She thinks that most of the ex muslims leave islam for stupid and unimportant emotional reasons? So she tried to kill herself for stupid and unimportant emotional reasons? But she returned to islam for emotional reasons.

The whole article just made me feel bad.

The unreligion, only one calorie
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Reply #10 - September 17, 2016, 09:37 AM

Quote from: asbie on September 16, 2016, 11:37 PM
The comments, for once, are interesting.

and they will become more interesting if Nabeel _zee joins this forum..

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Reply #11 - September 17, 2016, 11:23 AM

I wrote this on his Facebook:

This is a strange interview. It's not the exMuslim who returned to Islam that concerns me, but you, Nabeel. You come out of this looking like a narrow minded bigot, who supports killing apostates. Btw I am also an exMuslim who returned to Islam.
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Reply #12 - September 18, 2016, 02:19 AM

Quote from: Hassan on September 17, 2016, 11:23 AM
I wrote this on his Facebook:

This is a strange interview. It's not the exMuslim who returned to Islam that concerns me, but you, Nabeel. You come out of this looking like a narrow minded bigot, who supports killing apostates. Btw I am also an exMuslim who returned to Islam.

This is not an attack or anything, but I'm just confused. How are you an "Agnostic Muslim"?
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Reply #13 - September 18, 2016, 08:26 AM

Mufti news send up

http://www.muftinews.com/to-become-the-alpha-muslim-internalize-this-lesson-right-now/
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Reply #14 - September 18, 2016, 08:31 AM

I get told time and time again:

"You cannot be an Agnostic Muslim - it's a contradiction/oxymoron"

So here is my standard answer that from now on I will just copy and paste each time I'm asked this.

Agnostic means "no knowledge" (from Ancient Greek ἀ- (a-), meaning "without", and γνῶσις (gnōsis), meaning "knowledge"). It doesn't exclude belief. One can *believe* there is a God while admitting they don't *know* for certain. There are many Agnostic Christians, Jews, Theists and Deists of all sorts. See the article below for a fuller explanation:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic_theism

It's true there are not many Agnostic Muslims and many Muslims argue that one must be *certain* and Islam doesn't allow believers to have any doubts. But obviously I don't accept that view and challenge it. For me religion must evolve and change. So whatever the classical position may or may not have been, I believe in changing and reforming it.

Here Shabir Ally explains how one can be an Agnostic Muslim:

https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=u44kBAqdEOI

And this video I made explains my personal position a little more.

https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=wSiCHF8WUY8
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Reply #15 - September 18, 2016, 02:25 PM

Quote
Recently, an ex-Muslim told me that he knew very little about Islam’s deep, spiritual tradition. And it’s worrying that so many people don’t. It’s one of the reasons why so many people doubt their faith.

Doubt is a good thing. It enables us to question what we believe and come to stronger convictions. Those too scared to doubt can become chained to their views, closed-minded and hostile to those who think differently.

Sadly, many people refuse to doubt simply because they cannot begin to face the prospect that, after all this time, they’ve been wrong. After all, for the ordinary religious believer, everything depends on their faith. Literally everything. The way they live their life in this world and their state in the next – either wretched or felicitous – is dependent on their faith or lack of it.

I, as a Muslim, have had my fair share of doubts. After all, I read philosophy, studied different religious traditions, and looked into the works of devout, missionary atheists. But doubting my faith was actually the best thing that ever happened to me.

During my childhood, I was brought up to believe that the Quran was miraculous and that the Prophet Muhammad was a great man who came to teach humanity how to live. And, depending on how I lead my life, I would go to heaven or hell. It was simple and, to a young, unquestioning mind, it made sense. But, as I grew older, I began to question my beliefs.
...

https://omarshahid.co.uk/2014/02/05/theres-more-to-islam-a-message-to-muslims-doubting-their-faith/

"Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well."
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Reply #16 - September 18, 2016, 02:33 PM

I love Mufti News.

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Reply #17 - September 18, 2016, 04:30 PM

Quote from: Hassan on September 18, 2016, 08:26 AM
Mufti news send up

http://www.muftinews.com/to-become-the-alpha-muslim-internalize-this-lesson-right-now/

Haha!

I love the "There are 11 Muslimahs waiting for you" ad on that site.
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Reply #18 - September 18, 2016, 04:31 PM

Quote from: Hassan on September 18, 2016, 08:31 AM
I get told time and time again:

"You cannot be an Agnostic Muslim - it's a contradiction/oxymoron"

So here is my standard answer that from now on I will just copy and paste each time I'm asked this.

Agnostic means "no knowledge" (from Ancient Greek ἀ- (a-), meaning "without", and γνῶσις (gnōsis), meaning "knowledge"). It doesn't exclude belief. One can *believe* there is a God while admitting they don't *know* for certain. There are many Agnostic Christians, Jews, Theists and Deists of all sorts. See the article below for a fuller explanation:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic_theism

It's true there are not many Agnostic Muslims and many Muslims argue that one must be *certain* and Islam doesn't allow believers to have any doubts. But obviously I don't accept that view and challenge it. For me religion must evolve and change. So whatever the classical position may or may not have been, I believe in changing and reforming it.

Here Shabir Ally explains how one can be an Agnostic Muslim:

https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=u44kBAqdEOI

And this video I made explains my personal position a little more.

https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=wSiCHF8WUY8

Thanks, I see where you're coming from now.
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Reply #19 - September 20, 2016, 12:55 PM

My only problem with this is that why did Huffpost removed the article. From the way I see it she was more critical of Muslims than exxies if you ask me.

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Reply #20 - September 20, 2016, 02:22 PM

It's because the interviewer comes off looking like a twat with his line of questioning.

I don't have any problem with most of the things she's saying, just to be clear. It's her story, after all.

Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
how fuck works without shit??

Let's Play Chess!

harakaat, friend, RIP
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Reply #21 - September 20, 2016, 03:49 PM

I suspect they removed it because the interviewer appears to support killing apostates. They would rightly not want to host such views.
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Reply #22 - September 28, 2016, 12:56 PM

Lol.

"Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well."
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