The Quran and Arabic

1« Previous thread | Next thread »
- Mothra123
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
The Quran and Arabic
OP - September 17, 2016, 08:03 PM

Does anyone here know of anything that debunks the Islamic claim of the inimitability of the Quran?

Also, so many Muslims claim that the original language of mankind was Arabic, or at least a similar language to Arabic. Does anyone know of anything that debunks this as well?

Thank you!

-Mothra123
- olweasel
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
The Quran and Arabic
Reply #1 - September 17, 2016, 08:24 PM

Quote from: Mothra123 on September 17, 2016, 08:03 PM
Does anyone here know of anything that debunks the Islamic claim of the inimitability of the Quran?

The Atheist Qur'an
The True Furqan

Quote from: Mothra123 on September 17, 2016, 08:03 PM
Also, so many Muslims claim that the original language of mankind was Arabic, or at least a similar language to Arabic. Does anyone know of anything that debunks this as well?

I've never heard a Muslim say such a thing. Why would you need to debunk this? The burden of proof is on whoever made the claim.

"Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well."
- Robert Louis Stevenson
- Hsnake
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
The Quran and Arabic
Reply #2 - September 17, 2016, 08:49 PM

Quote from: olweasel on September 17, 2016, 08:24 PM
The Atheist Qur'an
The True Furqan
I've never heard a Muslim say such a thing. Why would you need to debunk this? The burden of proof is on whoever made the claim.

Never heard that one either.
- yeezevee
- Pub Regular
- offline
The Quran and Arabic
Reply #3 - September 17, 2016, 09:02 PM

Quote from: Mothra123 on September 17, 2016, 08:03 PM
............. many ~~Muslims~~ claim that the original language of mankind was Arabic, or at least a similar language to Arabic. Does anyone know of anything that debunks this as well?

-Mothra123

"I cannot doubt that language owes its origin to the imitation and modification, aided by signs and gestures, of various natural sounds, the voices of other animals, and man’s own instinctive cries."..........................

— "Charles Darwin, 1871. The Descent of Man, and Selection in Relation to Sex"

So this you see in these tubes below must be the mother of a language from which the first/many languages evolved...

Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJOD93UN78o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNRPHSNbkQ8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_PZUeJURfo

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- Mothra123
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
The Quran and Arabic
Reply #4 - September 17, 2016, 09:30 PM

I've heard that the True Furqan is just a copy of the original Quran though...

I'm not trying to sound smart or anything,
- cosmicdancer
- Pub Regular
- offline
The Quran and Arabic
Reply #5 - September 17, 2016, 10:28 PM

I made this video that discusses this topic:

https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=tZKttx1Qu1M

Plus you can download the book "My Ordeal with the Qur'an" for free here. It also looks at the Qur'an infallibility claim:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwndV4gyGGWeZ2Nhb3d0Q0ljYjA/view?usp=drivesdk
- cosmicdancer
- Pub Regular
- offline
The Quran and Arabic
Reply #6 - September 17, 2016, 10:41 PM

Quote from: Mothra123 on September 17, 2016, 08:03 PM
Also, so many Muslims claim that the original language of mankind was Arabic, or at least a similar language to Arabic. Does anyone know of anything that debunks this as well

Never heard that from any Muslim I know.
- cosmicdancer
- Pub Regular
- offline
The Quran and Arabic
Reply #7 - September 17, 2016, 10:48 PM

Quote from: olweasel on September 17, 2016, 08:24 PM
The True Furqan

Never seen that before. Obviously made by Christian missionaries. If belligerently attacking other faiths and narrow-minded exclusivity (as the Qur'an also does) are signs of miraculous inimitably then this does quite a good job.
- olweasel
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
The Quran and Arabic
Reply #8 - September 18, 2016, 12:06 AM

But of course a Muslim can say it doesn't sound like the Qur'an or it isn't as impressive as the Qur'an for whatever reason. When Dawah Man mentioned how the Qur'an was unique and impressive from a literary perspective to Basics of Sikhi, the latter cited Sikh religious scriptures, and argued that if a text being unique and impressive was a sign of its divine origin, then one could say they were from God as well.

"Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well."
- Robert Louis Stevenson
- yeezevee
- Pub Regular
- offline
The Quran and Arabic
Reply #9 - September 18, 2016, 12:12 PM

Quote from: Hassan on September 17, 2016, 10:48 PM
Never seen that before. Obviously made by Christian missionaries. ~~If belligerently attacking other faiths and narrow-minded exclusivity~~ [/s] ~~(as the Qur'an also does)~~ are signs of miraculous inimitably then this does quite a good job.

Unfair VERY UNFAIR ..........

That is a unfair post from Hassan and I think he made it without reading that book ., It is different from Quran., unlike that book True Furqan which is published in 1999 by the authors Al Saffee and Al Mahdy., ((who are actually hidden names but we know who they are))., No one knows the AUTHORS of Quran and without doubt Quran was put together by many folks before it became a book that i see to day..

So Agno-STATIC Hassan .. what is wrong with that True Furqan book?? whom did it threaten?

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- fajfall
- Member
- offline
The Quran and Arabic
Reply #10 - September 19, 2016, 01:45 PM

What I find odd about the Qur'an's inimitability claim is that the Qur'an is full of direct quotes of non-Allah characters like prophets, jinns, mountains and clouds (what the hell?), satan etc. Now if direct words of these dramatis personae are good enough to make it in the Qur'an, then it already shows that humans can speak and write as good as Allah, because their words are in the Qur'an and yet the Qur'an says noone can speak or write as good as it does. So the Qur'an fails into an abyss of faulty circular logic by its very on content, especially as the Qur'an says noone can even make a single ayah (sentence) as good as it.

Here's an example:

26:161 "When their brother Lut said to them: Will you not guard?"

Who can't write something as good as that? "When Bob his neighbour said: Will you protect those?". That's no worse than the Qur'an's verse.

Muslims will say "That isn't even in Arabic!" but the Qur'an doesn't say it has to be in Arabic.
--------

The Vatican once wanted to prove Hebrew was the first and natural language of all human beings. So they kept a child isolated from all language for years to see if he would start speaking in Hebrew eventually. He never did. Experiment failed. I've heard the Muslim claim that Arabic is the first language. It would actually be a way to 'prove' that even the foreign words in the Qur'an like Syriac, Ethiopian, Persian etc. therefore really originated from ancient Arabic and were not 'corrupted', therefore the Qur'an has no foreign words. Mashallah, another miracle, and as far as I'm aware I'm the first to discover it.
1« Previous thread | Next thread »