Trying to understand Islamic law and history

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- laico
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Trying to understand Islamic law and history
OP - October 26, 2016, 01:23 PM

Hi guys, there are a few things that i'm struggling to understand regarding Islam and sharia. I have a few questions, if anyone can help me i would appreciate it.

What is the traditional role of the caliph? I read that the caliph is normally elected by some kind of election, if so, why did the ulama of the past tolerate despot rulers and monarchies like the ummayads, ottomans etc? Or are these rulers somehow accepted forms of rule in Islam? How is it meant to work exactly and how did it work through history?

Saudi arabia follow an extreme conservative form of islam that looks back to the time of the prophet as is well known so then why do they have a monarch?

What is different about sayyid Qutb's (and similar writers) ideas compared to traditional Islam?

Who are Hizb ut-Tahrir? Do they follow traditional sharia and Islam, Sayyid Qutb's ideas or something completely different?
- bogart
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Trying to understand Islamic law and history
Reply #1 - October 26, 2016, 06:46 PM

Quote from: laico on October 26, 2016, 01:23 PM
Hi guys, there are a few things that i'm struggling to understand regarding Islam and sharia. I have a few questions, if anyone can help me i would appreciate it.

What is the traditional role of the caliph?

Head of state

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I read that the caliph is normally elected by some kind of election, if so, why did the ulama of the past tolerate despot rulers and monarchies like the ummayads, ottomans etc?

Election were not by popular vote of the masses. The masses didn't have a right to vote. Tribal leaders and leaders within the growing state picked the caliph. It was never a democracy. The caliph become nothing more than a monarchy within 30 years of Muhammad's death as the social structure of society didn't actually change only the people and religion of the upper class did.

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Or are these rulers somehow accepted forms of rule in Islam?

Accepted now but completely man made when developed.

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How is it meant to work exactly and how did it work through history?

It was meant to keep one tribe in power, Muhammad's tribe. The selection process failed within 30 years. The ties to the special tribe within 3 centuries.

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Saudi arabia follow an extreme conservative form of islam that looks back to the time of the prophet as is well known so then why do they have a monarch?

As the majority of the caliphs were nothing more than monarchs themselves there is little basis for objection to a kingship. If one takes the position against kingship as illegitimate renders a lot of Islamic history based on an illegitimate position. The Abbasids, Cordoba Caliphate, the Ottomans, the Mughal become illegitimate

The history of Islam during Muhammads time is actually unknown. Most of the sources for this era are 2 centuries removed from the events. This is really slight of hand. What is actually being said is that people accept the history 2 centuries removed from the events as the true representation of these events. This is why KSA is Sunni, they accept Sunni traditions as facts on the ground.

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What is different about sayyid Qutb's (and similar writers) ideas compared to traditional Islam?

Who are Hizb ut-Tahrir? Do they follow traditional sharia and Islam, Sayyid Qutb's ideas or something completely different?

I do not know enough about these people nor their writing to provide an answer. Sorry.
- laico
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Trying to understand Islamic law and history
Reply #2 - October 27, 2016, 06:51 AM

I thought almost all caliphs were actually illegitimate rulers, after all, that's why the first four in sunni Islam are called 'the rightly guided caliphs '. why did the ulama accept the dynasties then?

I know that events were only recorded after but Muslims including wahabbis consider it be authentic so where did they get the idea that a monarchy was OK?
- yeezevee
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Trying to understand Islamic law and history
Reply #3 - October 27, 2016, 11:40 AM

Quote from: laico on October 27, 2016, 06:51 AM
I thought almost all caliphs were actually illegitimate rulers,

Indeed that is correct and that also goes to those first four ALLEGED Caliph stories..the two father in-laws and two son in-laws of alleged prophet of Islam
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after all, that's why the ~~first four in sunni Islam are called 'the rightly guided caliphs~~ '. why did the ulama accept the dynasties then?

Well to answer that question .,we need to understand What is Ullama in Islam ? and what kind of people are in it ? and when did it started in Islam?

And and THERE WAS NO SUNNI ISLAM all the way until death of Islam's first alleged four 4 Caliphs., they are allegedly "rightly guided Caliphs they are neither Sunni or nor Shia Caliphs

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I know that events were only recorded after but Muslims including wahabbis consider it be authentic so where did they get the idea that a monarchy was OK?

wahabbis ARE NOT MUSLIMS ..they are idiots in Islam.

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- yeezevee
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Trying to understand Islamic law and history
Reply #4 - October 27, 2016, 12:15 PM

Quote from: laico on October 26, 2016, 01:23 PM

What is different about sayyid Qutb's (and similar writers) ideas compared to traditional Islam?

Who are Hizb ut-Tahrir? Do they follow traditional sharia and Islam, Sayyid Qutb's ideas or something completely different?

well bogart gave perfect answers to other questions of yours.,so let me answer rest of those questions with links

Q: What is different about sayyid Qutb's (and similar writers) ideas compared to traditional Islam?

Sayyid Qutb (1906-1966)

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Sayyid Qutb was an Egyptian writer, educator, and religious leader. His writings about Islam, and especially his call for a revolution to establish an Islamic state and society, greatly influenced the Islamic resurgence movements of the 20th century.
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From 1948 to 1950, he went to the United States on a scholarship to study its educational system, spending several months at Colorado State College of Education (now the University of Northern Colorado) in Greeley, Colorado. Qutb's first major theoretical work of religious social criticism, Al-'adala al-Ijtima'iyya fi-l-Islam (Social Justice in Islam), was published in 1949, during his time in the West

Though Islam gave him much peace and contentment, he suffered from respiratory and other health problems throughout his life and was known for "his introvertedness, isolation, depression and concern." In appearance, he was "pale with sleepy eyes." ] Qutb never married, in part because of his steadfast religious convictions.

He was an angry and confused fool in Islam and he started terror laced political Islam in 20th century., He was indeed "The Philosopher of Islamic Terror" in modern times., to learn about him read his writings and actions of his followers.

PLEASE READ THESE LINKS CAREFULLY ., they have the potential to brain wash unquestionable believers.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayyid_Qutb

http://www.ikhwanweb.com/

https://www.kalamullah.com/Books/Milestones%20Special%20Edition.pdf

http://isgap.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/bassam-tibi-online-working-paper-20101.pdf

http://www.salaam.co.uk/knowledge/Fi.php

http://www.emaanlibrary.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Errors-in-Sayyid-Qutb%E2%80%99s-Tafsir-In-the-Shade-of-the-Quran-.pdf

well that is about his ideas of Islam and for traditional Islam "read Quran by your self" , "undersatnd Quran by yourself" and follow Quran.. QURAN ONLY..

And we will talk about those smart BLACK SHEEP or BLACK FLAGS OF ISLAM in another post

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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