where did Zimriel go??
Sura 83
Mehdi Azaiez, Michel Cuypers, and Angelika Neuwirth . agree to divide this into three:
1-6 / 7-28 / 29-36 It is a condemnation of defrauders; needn't refer to Mecca specifically.
Emad Mohamed noted two terms, sijjin and 'iliyun, which are preceded "ma adrak" and noted as part of a "book". To him, "ma adrak" is a stance-marker............
Shoemaker did think the former was a book, though; Sijjil, perhaps. Someone else asked if it was related to sijn, the prison [of Hell]. It was then brought up that Noeldeke thought that Muhammad had just made up the word... And a fourth person pointed out that sijn's Semitic root isn't necessarily prison but judgement, and that in Biblical Aramaic it's a governor.
Lowin noted that "asatir" in Hebrew isn't just a legend, but implies secrets. (I piped up that the Samaritans had a book of their legends called the Asatir.) Reynolds thought Arabic asatir was a loan, satira = "Writing". If writing, then it comes from outside classical Arabic culture.
Someone asked about sura 83's mention of the blessed laughing at the damned. Tertullian and Augustine said that one of the diversions of paradise is to watch the sinners suffer.
Badawi nitpicked that those two authors were unavailable to the Syriac Christianity. ...........
I HATE PEOPLE NITPICKING in meetings specially discussions on some narrations and descriptions of some ancient religious STORY/SONG/SONNET BOOKS. It is not experiments science to nitpick and nail the presenters on some silly mistakes .,
More memories from Zimriel needed here .. ................
..Hello Zimriel .......... well on the way let me read that what I call as
"SONG OF DEFRAUDERS" .,after all it is just 36 verses
That Surah 83 in fact an example of classic Quranic song.., often repeats in different formats in chapters and indeed is nothing to do with anything .and.. and .. fits for
ALL TIMES IN ALL CONDITIONS OF HUMAN INTERACTIONS
Woe to the defrauders,
Who, when they take the measure (of their dues) from men take it fully,
But when they measure out to others or weigh out for them, they are deficient.
Do not these think that they shall be raised again
For a mighty day,
The day on which men shall stand before the Lord of the worlds?
Nay! most surely the record of the wicked is in the Sijjin.
And what will make you know what the Sijjin is?
It is a written book.
Woe on that day to the rejecters,
Who give the lie to the day of judgment.
And none gives the lie to it but every exceeder of limits, sinful one
When Our communications are recited to him, he says: Stories of those of yore.
Nay! rather, what they used to do has become like rust upon their hearts.
Nay! most surely they shall on that day be debarred from their Lord.
Then most surely they shall enter the burning fire.
Then shall it be said: This is what you gave the lie to.
Nay! Most surely the record of the righteous shall be in the Iliyin.
And what will make you know what the highest Iliyin is?
It is a written book,
Those who are drawn near (to Allah) shall witness it.
Most surely the righteous shall be in bliss,
On thrones, they shall gaze;
You will recognize in their faces the brightness of bliss.
They are made to quaff of a pure drink that is sealed (to others).
The sealing of it is (with) musk; and for that let the aspirers aspire.
And the admixture of it is a water of Tasnim,
A fountain from which drink they who are drawn near (to Allah).
Surely they who are guilty used to laugh at those who believe.
And when they passed by them, they winked at one another.
And when they returned to their own followers they returned exulting.
And when they saw them, they said: Most surely these are in error;
And they were not sent to be keepers over them.
So today those who believe shall laugh at the unbelievers;
On thrones, they will look.
Surely the disbelievers are rewarded as they did.
well that is how we should sing those sonnets of
"SONG OF DEFRAUDERS" 
Topic: IQSA, meeting 18-21 November