Religion is man made

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- faqmylo
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Religion is man made
OP - December 27, 2016, 12:59 PM

When I was young, I was taught to believe in the ‘unseen divine’ powers. I was asked to follow scriptures and live a morally upright life that the scripture supposedly told was the right thing to do. Everything around me was praised to be a blessing of the ‘unseen divine powers’. My teacher told me that nature was green because ‘God’ made them so. Almost everything was naturally linked to the term ‘God’. There were no place for questions and questions definitely had no answers. My curious mind never stopped questioning. As I grew up, I understood that leaves are ‘green’ not because the ‘Almighty’ made it so , but because of the chlorophyll they contain. Chlorophyll is a green pigment found in the chloroplasts of plants, and it is an essential component of photosynthesis. Leaves often show a vivid green color when they are close to other leaves. This happens because the light people see bounces off the green leaves before it reaches the eyes. Chlorophyll utilizes mostly red and blue light energy, while the green energy passes through or bounces off the leaves and reaches a person’s eyes. Leaves then appear green. As autumn comes to an end, plants and trees produce less chlorophyll because light regulates the production of chlorophyll. Chlorophyll has a constant decomposition rate, and the green hue begins to fade when chlorophyll starts to decompose. Other pigments that affect leaf color are anthocyanin pigments that cause leaves to look red and carotenoids that cause leaves to appear red, yellow or orange.Religion teaches us to believe in the ‘unseen power’ that is considered to be the sole creator behind everything. If God is the creator behind everything, then why are we compelled to pray to him and praise him for all the things in life. If Jesus could heal a blind person he happened to meet, then why not heal blindness? What was so wonderful about his casting out devils, so that the devils would enter a herd of pigs instead? With all this continual prayer, why no result? Why was the topic of sex considered sinful? The more you think of these objectionable questions, the more you begin to realise that these were questions that religion had no answers to. Not only this religion also wholly misrepresents the origin of man and the cosmos. It also manages to create a scene of sexual repression and fear among its followers who are bound and tied up to the various scriptures and morals of ‘religion’. Religion is often used by those in temporal charge to exert authority. The concept of religion makes us think with closed mind and not rely on science and reason. It is true that we as human beings may differ widely on our opinions, but religion curbs our open mindedness, free enquiry and pursuit of our own ideas. We are constantly pursued by fear of questioning the ‘wrong’ for fear of the unknown darkness and eternal damnation to the burning pyre of hell.

Religion teaches us about heaven and hell, good and bad, and living a morally upright life, but nevertheless are we not tempted enough to commit sin and crime? My views are that, yes we can live an ethical life even without a religion. Is there any need for us to gather everyday or at certain designated times of the year to offer our prayer or rather our loyalty to the ‘Unseen power’?. We non believers do not need such ‘dates and days’ and higher authority or priests to police our beliefs. To us no bound holy book,sacrifices, relics, images, objects or ceremonies make any sense. No places on earth could be contested to be holier than the other or killing of innocent civilians in the name of a sacred wall make a sense. Pursuit of truth is what attracts us more. The devotions of today are the repetitions of yesterday, written or spoken of ancient ages ago. Should we not then use our knowledge and rational thinking in living an ethical life, than believe in something that has been outdated and written or spoken of ages ago?.

How much vanity must be concealed- not too effectively at that- in order to pretend that one is the personal object of a divine plan?. How much self respect must be sacrificed in order that one may squirm continually in an awareness of one’s own sin? How much needless assumptions may be made and how much contortion is required , to receive every new insight of science and manipulate it so as to fit with the revealed words of ancient man made deities? The various atrocities in this world is an evidence enough that man has not been rational enough and sometimes blindly followed religion without questioning and trying to find the answers.In order to find peace and happiness, man must give up on the concept of this illusionary man made happiness in religion.
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- faqmylo
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Religion is man made
Reply #1 - December 27, 2016, 03:12 PM

Religion is man made- This is so true, because even the slightest religious criticism is enough to get scathing from the religious leaders.It is funny as the men who made it cannot agree on what their prophets or gurus actually said or did. If they themselves are so unsure, how could we expect them to give us hope and meaning? The believers claim to know ‘everything’. They not only believe that God exists but also believe that he supervises everything, also our diet, observances and sexual morality!

I was raised in a conservative Muslim family. I was made to believe and pray to the only god ‘Allah’. Islam was presented to me as a religion with no compulsion. But as I grew up, my mind began to question the various contradictory statements. “There is no compulsion in religion.”In their attempts to present Islam as an open, tolerant religion, I was made aware of the famous “no compulsion” part of the Koran’s verse 2:256. This phrase, on its own, seems to convey an attitude of relaxed, care-free, come-and-go-as-you-please religious freedom and tolerance. But does this phraset represent, truthfully, what the Koran says? For starters, let’s look at the actual verse, as it applies to Muslims, together with the very next verse (2:257), as it applies to non-Muslims.

2:256: “There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower.”
2:257: “Allah is the protecting guardian of those who believe. He bringeth them out of darkness into light. As for those who disbelieve, their patrons are false deities. They bring them out of light into darkness. Such are the rightful owners of the Fire [of Hell]. They will abide therein [forever].”
Believers are warned not to slip into disbelief, and disbelievers are warned to become believers — or else. In other words, according to this passage, there is compulsion in Islam, despite the initial “no compulsion” statement. Verse 18:29, itself, bears some similarities to the 2:256-257 pair:

18:29: “Say: (It is) the truth from the Lord of you (all). Then whosoever will, let him believe, and whosoever will, let him disbelieve. Lo! We have prepared for disbelievers Fire. Its tent encloseth them. If they ask for showers, they will be showered with water like to molten lead which burneth the faces. Calamitous the drink and ill the resting-place!”
The policy in the Koran does not appear to be “Believe it or not,” but instead is “Believe it or else!” . The Koran says many times that Allah is “Forgiving” and “Merciful.” but the Koran says that disbelievers who do good works do so in vain, because they are going to hell anyway! This is indeed a contradictory statement.According to the Koran (and Hadith), disbelief may be punishable through jihad against non-Muslims, through execution of apostates, and through slaying hypocrites, critics, and satirical poets (see below). Non-Muslims living under Islamic rule also face the prospect of being forced into slavery. Religious freedom requires the ability to freely express criticism of a religion. The Koran forbids this. As everyone now knows, it is not possible to criticize Islam openly without risking being killed by an Islamist.
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Reply #2 - December 28, 2016, 01:00 AM

Religion always puts before you a false screen of what is morally right and wrong, do's and dont's. It is funny how our priests, imam,monks and pandits are unable to explain our rational queries, because religion does not have an answer to those rational and scientific queries. When I started questioning my religion, my friends and close relatives feared that I was under some evil spell. It was hard to explain them that I was not under evil spell but that religion was the evil causing me to have several queries. Slowly, I lost many friends as their 'well wishers' feared I may influence them too When I came to London for my higher studies, I sensed freedom. I did not have to fear being judged and could live a life of my own. But was it really so? No. Because my family could still not accept my atheism and kept wishing I returned back to faith. Gradually I moved on in my life and hoped that my family would understand. However, things only got worse with time. When I got married to a Hindu, my family and friends severely criticised me. The reason being that this was 'unacceptable' as per religion. No reasoning was good enough to convince my family. The biggest emotional blow was when my close muslim friends in London moved away from me as I married 'the forbidden'. My life was turned upside down with the rejection of my decision. It is a shame how religion manipulates humans even in this modern world
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Reply #3 - December 28, 2016, 10:10 AM

You are misplacing religion with human actions. You are a victim of humans that use religion as an excuse for their actions. It is people that teach others that this or that religion is correct. People that teach which views are correct and incorrect. They use religion to justify bigotry. Any person could reject any view at any time they find wrong. Many do not as their are burdened by standards they are taught but never question.

The objection to your marriage seems odd. I thought a bastardized version of Hinduism was incorporated under the guise of and part of Islam's "Abrahamic" legacy. Like Christianity and Judaism in the sense all 4 are from Islam's God but incorrect in many ways. However not so out of alignment as to be damned.
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Reply #4 - December 28, 2016, 11:06 AM

Quote from: bogart on December 28, 2016, 10:10 AM
1).You are misplacing religion with human actions.

2). You are a victim of humans that use religion as an excuse for their actions.

3). It is people that teach others that this or that religion is correct.

4). People that teach which views are correct and incorrect.

5). They use religion to justify bigotry. ....

those 5 points have funny starting point bogart and begs a simple question.,

What is a religion if it is not just a faith of faith heads?

let me counter your response to "faqmylo " replacing the word "RELIGION" ( I am allergic to it) with "faith and faith heads "

1).You are misplacing religion with human actions.

That is because so-called religion, "the faith of faith heads" itself originated from some human/s action/s. If the human action (("THE FAITH" )) of a group of human beings are controlled by their silly unquestionable faith rules and some power hungry faith heads, then yes I blame the faith, faith heads and the leaders of the faith.

if there were no organized "God said so you do this way" faiths then human actions will not be based on some faiths and faith books., So I do blame "god said so"unquestionable faith books.

Quote
2). You are a victim of humans that use religion as an excuse for their actions.

3). It is people that teach others that this or that religion is correct.

4). People that teach which views are correct and incorrect.

5). They use religion to justify bigotry. ....

Yes.... it is indeed humans ..... SOME HUMANS ., innocent public who were brainwashed for generations and generations are the victims of SOME HUMANS AND THEIR FAITH . it is they who started faiths, who propagate faiths and who made unquestionable rules in the name of faith using some irrational word "god" "creator" etc.. So I do blame such human faiths and faith heads and faith books ....

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- yeezevee
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Religion is man made
Reply #5 - December 28, 2016, 11:30 AM

Quote from: faqmylo on December 27, 2016, 03:12 PM
Religion is man made- ............

Hello faqmylo....what?? faqmylo? .what does it mean? frequently Asked questions on some low life faith heads?

wonderful posts ..glad to read you ..., and there is no doubt about that.,

with best wishes
yeezevee

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Are you a victim of religion?
Reply #6 - December 28, 2016, 12:10 PM

Quote
Quote from: faqmylo on December 28, 2016, 01:00 AM
Are you a victim of religion?

Quote from: bogart on December 28, 2016, 10:10 AM
You are a victim of humans that use religion as an excuse for their actions.

Quote from: yeezevee on December 28, 2016, 11:06 AM

What is a religion if it is not just a faith of faith heads?
...

well on those three guys and their silly posts that are trying to brainwash people., let me put a story from my favorite website .,A story from a father in-law on his daughter in-law

Quote
http://idealmuslimah.com/family/inlaws/3625-everyone-was-jealous-of-noori-4.html

My daughter-in-law died two months ago. Everyone used to make fun of her because she was taller and healthier than my son. Whatever ill minded people said, at the end she eventually became our daughter.

My wife often advised me not to show my affection for Nooreja in front of other daughter-in-laws. But she was different than everyone, how could I not praise for her kindness. So, everyone was jealous of Noori, oh, I and my wife called her Noori.

After dividing my property among my children, I had a small portion of money left only for my Hajj (pilgrimage to Mecca). I was unable to bear my wife’s expense. When my wife asked for money to our children, they said, there is no point to send a blind mother in Hajj. My wife lost her eye sight many years ago. I saw her crying many days while I was preparing for Hajj.

Then one day, Noori called everyone, by standing inside the indoor curtain, she passed a parcel to my elder son.
Quote
Noori had sold her gold ornaments and also added the money that she got from her parent’s property. She requested my son to arrange for my wife and her’s Hajj procedure. No one utter a word of gratitude only I saw my blind wife’s glittering eyes

. People used to say, whatever happens a daughter-in-law never can be a daughter. Noori could not become my daughter, she became our son.

Quote
During Hajj, Noori took my wife in her back while completing a ritual. My wife was holding her like a child and I wiped from far. My wife died in 2004 just after come back from Hajj

. I do not know if Allah grant any of our Hajj or not. But till my last breathe my daughter-in-law will be in my prayers, and I will keep begging to Allah so He grant the best place of Heaven for our Noori.

that is eye watering heart melting wonderful story ., but I wonder whether they could have spend their money in a better way than going to that place give their hard earned money to snakes of sandland where snakes rule the land live in palaces and dance with ......gold...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR7iwCuudwc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkPU1Vj3lKA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3Y2yGLMccw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1gedfN2mtY

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Are you a victim of religion?
Reply #7 - December 28, 2016, 03:42 PM

Quote from: bogart on December 28, 2016, 10:10 AM
You are misplacing religion with human actions. You are a victim of humans that use religion as an excuse for their actions. It is people that teach others that this or that religion is correct. People that teach which views are correct and incorrect. They use religion to justify bigotry.

This is completely wrong. Human actions are also directed by these so called organized religions.
Religion is political ideology which is forced onto people many times. Many times people even don't have option, accept or die.
Religion is a evil creation of evil mind, a great tool to control and exploit masses.
No doubt Yahweh and Allah are one of the most evil gods created by evil minds.
We have witnessed woman oppression in almost every religion.
we have to oppose human actions and religions as well.

Yahweh described by Richard Dawkins as following.
Quote
“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”

I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
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Are you a victim of religion?
Reply #8 - December 28, 2016, 04:41 PM

yezevee, I totally agree with you that religion has been brainwashing humans. Actions are incited due to religion and yes, the hard earned money could be utilised in a better way but people of faith wish to utilise hard earned money on places of faith. More than humanitarian donation, places of faith have exclusive donation . What would 'God' do with so much money, I wonder.
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Reply #9 - December 28, 2016, 04:48 PM

Quote from: bogart on December 28, 2016, 10:10 AM
You are misplacing religion with human actions. You are a victim of humans that use religion as an excuse for their actions. It is people that teach others that this or that religion is correct. People that teach which views are correct and incorrect. They use religion to justify bigotry. Any person could reject any view at any time they find wrong. Many do not as their are burdened by standards they are taught but never question.

The objection to your marriage seems odd.

'Human actions are encouraged by religious beliefs that order us what is morally right or wrong and literally everything from birth to death are known to religion and its preachers. This is funny. Because I didnot hold these foolish belief and moved on with my life, I had to face the criticism of friends and family. When I decided to marry, I was further criticised because religion and faith belief that the people around me had, forced them to believe that what I did was sin. Foolish human actions were incited by foolish religious belief. I believe, had my close ones been free thinker , they would not have socially ostracised me !
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Reply #10 - December 28, 2016, 04:50 PM

Many times people even don't have option, accept or die.
Religion is a evil creation of evil mind, a great tool to control and exploit masses.
we have to oppose human actions and religions as well.

I second this too. Religion acts like a slow poison. It makes you believe in illogical and mysterious things and if you show disbelief , all hell break loose.
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Religion is man made
Reply #11 - December 28, 2016, 04:55 PM

Quote from: faqmylo on December 27, 2016, 03:12 PM
Religion is man made- This is so true, because even the slightest religious criticism is enough to get scathing from the religious leaders.It is funny as the men who made it cannot agree on what their prophets or gurus actually said or did. If they themselves are so unsure, how could we expect them to give us hope and meaning? The believers claim to know ‘everything’. They not only believe that God exists but also believe that he supervises everything, also our diet, observances and sexual morality!

I was raised in a conservative Muslim family. I was made to believe and pray to the only god ‘Allah’. Islam was presented to me as a religion with no compulsion. But as I grew up, my mind began to question the various contradictory statements. “There is no compulsion in religion.”In their attempts to present Islam as an open, tolerant religion, I was made aware of the famous “no compulsion” part of the Koran’s verse 2:256. This phrase, on its own, seems to convey an attitude of relaxed, care-free, come-and-go-as-you-please religious freedom and tolerance. But does this phraset represent, truthfully, what the Koran says? For starters, let’s look at the actual verse, as it applies to Muslims, together with the very next verse (2:257), as it applies to non-Muslims.

2:256: “There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower.”
2:257: “Allah is the protecting guardian of those who believe. He bringeth them out of darkness into light. As for those who disbelieve, their patrons are false deities. They bring them out of light into darkness. Such are the rightful owners of the Fire [of Hell]. They will abide therein [forever].”
Believers are warned not to slip into disbelief, and disbelievers are warned to become believers — or else. In other words, according to this passage, there is compulsion in Islam, despite the initial “no compulsion” statement. Verse 18:29, itself, bears some similarities to the 2:256-257 pair:

18:29: “Say: (It is) the truth from the Lord of you (all). Then whosoever will, let him believe, and whosoever will, let him disbelieve. Lo! We have prepared for disbelievers Fire. Its tent encloseth them. If they ask for showers, they will be showered with water like to molten lead which burneth the faces. Calamitous the drink and ill the resting-place!”
The policy in the Koran does not appear to be “Believe it or not,” but instead is “Believe it or else!” . The Koran says many times that Allah is “Forgiving” and “Merciful.” but the Koran says that disbelievers who do good works do so in vain, because they are going to hell anyway! This is indeed a contradictory statement.According to the Koran (and Hadith), disbelief may be punishable through jihad against non-Muslims, through execution of apostates, and through slaying hypocrites, critics, and satirical poets (see below). Non-Muslims living under Islamic rule also face the prospect of being forced into slavery. Religious freedom requires the ability to freely express criticism of a religion. The Koran forbids this. As everyone now knows, it is not possible to criticize Islam openly without risking being killed by an Islamist.

S A Faruq

yeezevee Thanks for reading and liking my posts. Well, I think that this whole concept of religion and faith is bogus and man made. Because, there are so many contradictory statements presented by religion to which even the faith preachers have no answer. Man makes religion and fancy rules as he wishes, and himself cannot answer why he did so, when questioned. Because they have no answers to give !
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Are you a victim of religion?
Reply #12 - December 29, 2016, 02:45 AM

This is something I think about often. There are many opinions on what religion IS. The simplest conclusion is that religion is all the things it is made of, that I list below, but I suspect not.
We have some options.
1)Religion is the canon it originates from. This is what the salafists want us to believe.
2)Religion is the actions of the community that embraces it.
3)Religion is the accumulation of it's history.
4)Religion is the ideas/traditions of the community that embraces it.
5)Religion is the ideas/traditions of those who embraced it before us.

I am no college student, and I am sure this is elementary theology. Perhaps someone else would comment? I used to believe that religion was the original text, and as I got older I knew that was wrong, for if so, there would not be so much variation. Religion is more than any two ideas listed. It is a living thing that, though bigger than each of it's parts, is yet so much smaller than the god it claims to speak for that it is ridiculous in the comparison. If there be a god.
Religion, to me, is a box.
So it seems to me that without agreeing on what religion IS, there is too much room for miscommunication.

Don't let Hitler have the street.
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Reply #13 - December 29, 2016, 03:01 AM

Quote from: abidali2018240 on December 28, 2016, 03:42 PM
This is completely wrong. Human actions are also directed by these so called organized religions.

Humans makes a conscious choice to follow a religion, accept various ideas, conduct, creeds, etc. At any point they can stop and consider anything with their religion contains. Hence why the a majority religious either contextualize or have other reasons to ignore the violence within their scripture.

Quote
Religion is political ideology which is forced onto people many times. Many times people even don't have option, accept or die.

No those are people forcing other people to convert.

Quote
Religion is a evil creation of evil mind, a great tool to control and exploit masses.

Assertion without evidence. You are making a grand claim here that all religions were solely created to control people. Present your evidence for each religion which has existed. Go...

Quote
No doubt Yahweh and Allah are one of the most evil gods created by evil minds.

Present your evidence not assertions

Quote
We have witnessed woman oppression in almost every religion.

No you have witnessed it in many societies as the times and human nature led to such a development. Religion rationalized it. Just as religions now are used to rationalize the opposite. If our modern societies collapsed we would go right back to the old system within a few generations

Quote
we have to oppose human actions and religions as well.

No we can address the human actions. Religions will conform or die.

Quote
Yahweh described by Richard Dawkins as following.

Dawkins is a biologist. His knowledge of deities is limited and opinion irrelevant. Go look up Mictlantecuhtli
- yeezevee
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Reply #14 - December 29, 2016, 07:57 AM
bogart you seem to have tremendous knowledge about history of mankind and cultures .,, but in that post you are saying something that sounds imaginary and out of this real world. sounds like Quantum world, quantum conscious and humans beings driven by quantum consciousness, That is a very difficult subject with many slippery slopes ., I wish and hope you dwell deeper to make the subject clear to the readers., Let me take couple of points from your post
Quote from: bogart on December 29, 2016, 03:01 AM
Humans makes a conscious choice to follow a religion, accept various ideas, conduct, creeds, etc.

Q1: what is conscious choice dear bogart?

and even if you could define that, since the beginning of (( ~~religions~~ ,)), Ooops i meant faiths, history of faith heads (I meant HEADS OF FAITH) So.,

Q2: how many human beings did make the conscious choice about faith..for that matter on anything in their life ?

Let us go to the real numbers here., here is the ~human population at a given time

Quote
World Population Growth

Year    Population
1   200 million
1000   275 million
1500   450 million
1650   500 million
1750   700 million
1804   1 billion
1850   1.2 billion
1900   1.6 billion
1927   2 billion
1950   2.55 billion
1955   2.8 billion
1960   3 billion
1965   3.3 billion
1970   3.7 billion
1975   4 billion
1980   4.5 billion
1985   4.85 billion
1990   5.3 billion
1995   5.7 billion
1999   6 billion
2006   6.5 billion
2009   6.8 billion
2011   7 billion

'
Some of those human population numbers are interpolated but question is at any given time,
Q3: how many people do you think have made conscious choice about their faith during their life time at any given time from the above list??

All those three questions, we can also frame them w.r.t. well developed cultures/religions/faiths of ancient history ..for e.g https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_history

tell me taking the individual cultures from above figure ., How many people of that each culture/faith/religion followed their faith consciously

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At any point they can stop and consider anything with their religion contains.
Hence why the a majority religious either contextualize or have other reasons to ignore the violence within their scripture.

No those are people forcing other people to convert.

Assertion without evidence. You are making a grand claim here that all religions were solely created to control people. Present your evidence for each religion which has existed. Go...

Present your evidence not assertions

No you have witnessed it in many societies as the times and human nature led to such a development. Religion rationalized it. Just as religions now are used to rationalize the opposite. If our modern societies collapsed we would go right back to the old system within a few generations

No we can address the human actions.
Religions will conform or die.
I am not sure what all that means but this is strange statement from you

Quote
Dawkins is a biologist. His knowledge of deities is limited and opinion irrelevant. Go look up Mictlantecuhtli

What deities and what knowledge are you talking??

what knowledge do any one needs to understand deities and deitism ??

And how did you come to the conclusion that Mictlantecuhtli had more knowledge about deities and deitism than Richard Dawkins when this Mictlantecuhtli is not even a human being but a deity Aztecs??

http://www.ancient.eu/Mictlantecuhtli/

with best regards
yeezevee
Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- yeezevee
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Religion is man made
Reply #15 - December 29, 2016, 08:32 AM

Quote from: faqmylo on December 28, 2016, 04:55 PM
yeezevee ~~Thanks~~ for reading and liking my posts. Well,

I always read thoughtful posts dear faqmylo., what?? faqmylo. ?? what is that nick supposed to mean Faruq.?? what does it mean?? ..Is that faq stands for Frequently Asked questions or Fuck ............Fuckit.. ??

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I think that this whole concept of religion and faith is ~~bogus~~ and man made. Because, there are so many contradictory statements presented by religion to which even the faith preachers have no answer. Man makes religion and fancy rules as he wishes, and himself cannot answer why he did so, when questioned. Because they have no answers to give !

well one has to be careful and ABSOLUTELY SURE to use a word like "bogus"., True,there is a little doubt that religions/faiths are indeed man made. Well unevolved biological species without languages and linguistic structure can not make organized religions .

As far word "bogus" is concerned much of it ..99.9999% is indeed nonsense from all religions/faiths and their books ., but in absence of having absolute answer with 100% certainty about the presence or absence of so-called all powerful, all knowing all controlling god ., we have to keep options open to those who wants to explore that subject .. It is just like any hypothesis or assumption that need to be explored..

The other thing I would suggest to you and others who often read Quran or use quran in their posts is .. to read at least 5 verses below and five verses above the verse of interest to make story/sense out of what a verse is saying most importantly why it is written by the authors of Quran.

with best wishes
yeezevee

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- faqmylo
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Religion is man made
Reply #16 - December 29, 2016, 01:29 PM

well, faqmylo means Faruq and mylo is mylo. well tbh both are my nick names ! well i agree on what you just mentioned 'It is just like any hypothesis or assumption that need to be explored..'. Thanks.
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Reply #17 - December 29, 2016, 01:58 PM

Quote from: three on December 29, 2016, 02:45 AM
If there be a god.
Religion, to me, is a box.
So it seems to me that without agreeing on what religion IS, there is too much room for miscommunication.[Indeed, there is miscommunication and misrepresentation. For instance, even if there was God, why would he make so many do's and dont's (some though very strict ones) to cause his beloved human beings problem? Even if he would have made something called religion and religious book, by the time it reached us, it must have been manipulated and misinterpreted and then we are presented these misinterpretations with such confidence .The concept of religion is debatable and will always remain so , I assume
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Reply #18 - December 29, 2016, 02:12 PM

Quote from: bogart on December 29, 2016, 03:01 AM

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We have witnessed woman oppression in almost every religion.

No you have witnessed it in many societies as the times and human nature led to such a development. Religion rationalized it(Indeed religion rationalized women oppression. Let me give you an example, so last year my wife went with her friends to Oxford University on a trip. There she met a Pakistani muslim lady (xyz). During the trip, my wife suggested they all take a nice snap holding each others hand (xyz included, with my wife's other friends both male and female), But xyz objected that she couldnt. So my wife asked her, why? And xyz said cuz I am a Muslim and in my religion we are not allowed to hold any strange male person's hand). My wife was shocked but she didnot ask her anything further.Now, its okay to feel uncomfortable taking pictures with complete male strangers in a hand holding pose which is acceptable, but you see, she mentioned religion behind it. So religion in a way confirm right wrong yes or no, modest immodest . Religion has also made castes. Like this one here https://www.buzzfeed.com/andreborges/honour-killing-in-delhi?utm_term=.btwROq5z4D#.oxNWrn6BxQ. You can love, but love has to be within same caste, same religion etc etc.. Just saying
Just as religions now are used to rationalize the opposite. If our modern societies collapsed we would go right back to the old system within a few generations
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Reply #19 - December 29, 2016, 03:06 PM

I am not so certain that religion is a conscious effort. It seems to me that many people cannot help believing what they believe. I know I tried to believe when I fell out of belief, and I could not make myself believe as I did before, even though I was consciously choosing to believe. It just did not take.
My neighbor thinks I am going to hell. She is Christian, I did explain to her that it is not a requirement of her faith, but it is a doctrine of her church, and she does not want to believe it- yet she does. I think it would take a lot of evidence and a great deal of history lessons to convince her that exclusivism is not necessarily essential to her faith.
So beliefs can be changed, yes, but I am not sure you can will yourself to unbelieve.

Don't let Hitler have the street.
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Reply #20 - December 29, 2016, 03:07 PM

The caste system is from tradition not religion.
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Reply #21 - December 29, 2016, 03:22 PM

Quote from: yeezevee on December 29, 2016, 07:57 AM
bogart you seem to have tremendous knowledge about history of mankind and cultures .,, but in that post you are saying something that sounds imaginary and out of this real world. sounds like Quantum world, quantum conscious and humans beings driven by quantum consciousness, That is a very difficult subject with many slippery slopes ., I wish and hope you dwell deeper to make the subject clear to the readers., Let me take couple of points from your post

A slippery slope for what?

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Q1: what is conscious choice dear bogart?

Making a decision regarding a topic.

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Q2: how many human beings did make the conscious choice about faith..for that matter on anything in their life ?

Anyone capable of a choice between A or B does this with religion all the time. Such as prayer they make a choice to reaffirm they think the religion is true by the act.

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Q3: how many people do you think have made conscious choice about their faith during their life time at any given time from the above list??

Every single one.

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How many people of that each culture/faith/religion followed their faith consciously

Every single one

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What deities and what knowledge are you talking??

I am talking about Dawkins knowledge of religions and their deities is shallow

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what knowledge do any one needs to understand deities and deitism ??

Knowledge beyond the mainstream religions we have now. Dawkins only has passing knowledge of Islam and Christianity.

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And how did you come to the conclusion that Mictlantecuhtli had more knowledge about deities and deitism than Richard Dawkins when this Mictlantecuhtli is not even a human being but a deity Aztecs??

It was a comparison between the Biblical God and Mictlantecuhtli. I was showing that Dawkins knowledge is limited to pop culture thus his opinion is flawed. After all he said all of fiction yet most Death Gods are far worse than the Biblical one.
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Reply #22 - December 29, 2016, 03:29 PM

Quote from: three on December 29, 2016, 03:06 PM
I am not so certain that religion is a conscious effort.

You mean belief? Religion contains ideas that have nothing to do with a deity such as hierarchy organization.

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It seems to me that many people cannot help believing what they believe.

Sure they can. They can stop and question anything they believe at any time. People will make excuses not to or excuses to resolve their doubts.

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I know I tried to believe when I fell out of belief, and I could not make myself believe as I did before, even though I was consciously choosing to believe. It just did not take.

A question is why did you having a falling out. Was it a spontaneous event with no cause or was it the result of many events and consideration of these events?

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My neighbor thinks I am going to hell. She is Christian, I did explain to her that it is not a requirement of her faith, but it is a doctrine of her church, and she does not want to believe it- yet she does.

Which means she does not question her doctrine which is a human made concept. Doctrine is taught and accepted.

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I think it would take a lot of evidence and a great deal of history lessons to convince her that exclusivism is not necessarily essential to her faith.
So beliefs can be changed, yes, but I am not sure you can will yourself to unbelieve.

Any choice has a basis for it. Willing yourself to not believe is not the same as using arguments and evidence to convince you not to believe.
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Reply #23 - December 29, 2016, 03:51 PM

Quote from: bogart on December 29, 2016, 03:01 AM
Humans makes a conscious choice to follow a religion, accept various ideas, conduct, creeds, etc. At any point they can stop and consider anything with their religion contains. Hence why the a majority religious either contextualize or have other reasons to ignore the violence within their scripture.

But at the same time, religion cause many people to take bad actions, which they would never take otherwise.
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Steven Weinberg quotes (showing 1-30 of 69) “With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion.” “Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things.

https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/86758.Steven_Weinberg
Quote from: bogart on December 29, 2016, 03:01 AM
No those are people forcing other people to convert.

Because their religion says so
Quote from: bogart on December 29, 2016, 03:01 AM
Assertion without evidence. You are making a grand claim here that all religions were solely created to control people. Present your evidence for each religion which has existed. Go...

This is correct, I shouldn't have made such a great assertion, but most of the religions were made to control masses at their time.
Quote from: bogart on December 29, 2016, 03:01 AM
No we can address the human actions. Religions will conform or die.

No No No. we have to address religion as well, religion will not die itself, it will be killed by science and awareness.
Quote from: bogart on December 29, 2016, 03:01 AM
Dawkins is a biologist. His knowledge of deities is limited and opinion irrelevant. Go look up Mictlantecuhtli

Dawkins is a wonderful guy. He is absolutely right, what he said about Yahweh.

I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
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Reply #24 - December 29, 2016, 05:57 PM

Quote from: bogart on December 29, 2016, 03:22 PM
A slippery slope for what?

Making a decision regarding a topic.

Anyone capable of a choice between A or B does this with religion all the time. Such as prayer they make a choice to reaffirm they think the religion is true by the act.

~~Every single one.~~

~~Every single one~~

I am talking about Dawkins knowledge of religions and their deities is shallow

Knowledge beyond the mainstream religions we have now. Dawkins only has passing knowledge of Islam and Christianity.

It was a comparison between the Biblical God and Mictlantecuhtli. I was showing that Dawkins knowledge is limited to pop culture thus his opinion is flawed. After all he said all of fiction yet most Death Gods are far worse than the Biblical one.

thank you for that response bogart., well, as usual i cross out things which I think are wrong and I could also be wrong ., because I am not sure that there is any knowledge in any religion and in their deities and in their books ., what these faiths and their deities and their followers do have is, repetitive rituals, songs, sonnets and food drug drinking parties that has been passed on by their earlier generations in the culture they are born in to .

anyways., The word "conscious" you used is nothing to do with the words I used ..consciousness, quantum conscious or humans beings driven by quantum consciousness, that you see in these tubes from this indian guru Mr.dr, deepak https://www.google.com/#tbm=vid&q=deepak+chopra+consciousness who uses those super duper words ,, RIGHT ??

so bogart, again in your view "Conscious Decision" means it is just "Making a decision regarding a topic" and nothing todo with Mr.Deepak's Quantum consciousness... right? correct me if I am wrong...

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Reply #25 - December 29, 2016, 09:59 PM

Quote from: bogart on December 29, 2016, 03:22 PM
Anyone capable of a choice between A or B does this with religion all the time. Such as prayer they make a choice to reaffirm they think the religion is true by the act.

I think you have to ask the question if survival instinct is the same thing as conscious choice. And if we don't grant that, then we must incorporate some degrees of gray area in the matter of conscious choice.

Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
how fuck works without shit??

Let's Play Chess!

harakaat, friend, RIP
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Reply #26 - December 30, 2016, 04:24 AM

I did consciously seek out alternative ideas regarding Islam. But I did so in order to banish my own doubts, which had been creeping in as my experiences with life piled up and contradicted Islamic tradition or law. It was not a conscious choice I ever made to disbelieve that which I had previously believed. Even when I am now presented with mountains of "evidence" that religion is true, I cannot believe. When I present believers with evidence to the contrary, they cannot stop believing. It seems to be something that happens inside a person whether they will it or not. I am firmly now in my camp and they are in theirs.
I would definitely rather be believing, and involved with the ummah, and blissfully unaware of all other options. I was a very happy Muslim until I was not.
This theory I have about belief is probably wrapped up in the concept of faith but I am not certain where it intersects and I have this unfortunate habit of hitting emotion in any aspect and shying away (internally), so I am not even sure I am explaining this properly. It is just instinctive for me to say that belief, in my opinion, is not always voluntary.

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Reply #27 - December 30, 2016, 09:36 AM

the main problem with religion in my opinion Is when it force people to interfere and ruin other people lifes .

if someone want to ruin his life happily then it doesn't matter (he is happy , we don't care , everyone is ok then )
for example (someone don't want to listen to music , refine from art , a woman agree to be oppressed and share her husband with 3 others , as bogart wife story a lady who don't want to hold stranger hand ... etc ) those are personal choices and if it stop there then it would have been ok

but religion most of the time yes do brainwash people to control and ruin others life as (preventing gay marriage or other religion marriage of apostasy laws ) religion encourage or insure that religious members try there best to control others and that when the problem happen .

any way fagmylo : you and your wife knew that this is coming , you cant change them the same as they cant change you , all you can do is to live your life to the fullest never ever regret a thing and never ever depend on them for a thing no kids blessing or any other , just hope that when they see life do go on and it is not the end of the world when you go your own path then they might understand .
if you are still close to your family please feel compassion to your wife also and understand that being around them she might feel suffocated as they will make sure to make her feel that unwelcomed . you went a long way don’t allow religion or anyone to ruin your life , if they don’t want YOU they you don’t want them just move on

three :
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I would definitely rather be believing, and involved with the ummah, and blissfully unaware of all other options. I was a very happy Muslim until I was not.

That is when they say that ignorant sometimes is a bless , this is how to feel compassion for those who are still believing not because of any thing just because that is all what they know , just believing , and never thought of questioning their religion

You are educated when you have the ability to listen to almost anything without losing your temper or self-confidence.
Robert Frost

?Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.?

― Andr? Gide
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Reply #28 - December 30, 2016, 11:57 AM

Quote from: abidali2018240 on December 29, 2016, 03:51 PM
But at the same time, religion cause many people to take bad actions, which they would never take otherwise.

They have accepted that position prior to the bad actions.

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This is correct, I shouldn't have made such a great assertion, but most of the religions were made to control masses at their time.

You are still making an assertion. You have only toned down the rhetoric of "all" to "some". All without evidence.

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No No No. we have to address religion as well, religion will not die itself, it will be killed by science and awareness.

No we need to address why people accept religion in the first place. Where a breakdown in their thinking occurs when faced with horrible idea within religions

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Dawkins is a wonderful guy. He is absolutely right, what he said about Yahweh.

I think a God that eats all the humans sent to it's domain is far worse than one that does not eat humans. The problem with the Bible God is a lot of people claim it is omnibenevolent yet has a death count in the millions to billions while it's rival has killed 12 people or less.

[/quote]
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Reply #29 - December 30, 2016, 12:01 PM

Quote from: asbie on December 29, 2016, 09:59 PM
I think you have to ask the question if survival instinct is the same thing as conscious choice. And if we don't grant that, then we must incorporate some degrees of gray area in the matter of conscious choice.

Religion isn't an instinct but an abstract set of concepts that form a model about reality. It is no different than any model about reality in science. It is just taught at a far younger age by people children naturally trust while being part society, and a grounding of, for millennia.
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