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 Topic: How long will it be until the stigma towards ex-Muslims ends?

 (Read 2578 times)
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  • How long will it be until the stigma towards ex-Muslims ends?
     OP - February 16, 2017, 05:26 AM
    I ask this question mainly in regards to the Western world as it's especially dangerous of course to come out as an apostate in Muslim majorities, especially those countries where apostasy is still a crime. Does anyone see ex Muslims in the near future be able to freely state amongst family and friends that they're not Muslims in the same way their Christian counterparts can without fear of being ostracised? Are things changing? From my point of view, from what I see in my community in you can't do this. I was wondering what perception is from other parts of Britain and elsewhere in other countries.
  • How long will it be until the stigma towards ex-Muslims ends?
     Reply #1 - February 17, 2017, 12:33 AM
    It comes down to the individual and how they handle their particular situation. I imagine there could be some crazies out there who might wanna ostracise their child if they became non-muslim. 
  • How long will it be until the stigma towards ex-Muslims ends?
     Reply #2 - February 18, 2017, 12:52 PM
    I think there a plenty of us out there. we don't always refer to ourselves as 'ex-muslims'.

    as for 'community' well, I've lived in London all my life and I've never been a part of a 'muslim community'. is there one? we just have a circle of friends who our parents knew when they first came here. the circle is bigger now but I wouldn't say its a community. some wear hijabs most don't don't. I think most still observe Ramadan but my friends don't. no one has ever been ostracised.

    remember, its always the fanatical groups that grab the headlines and the rest of us get tarred with the same brush.
  • How long will it be until the stigma towards ex-Muslims ends?
     Reply #3 - February 18, 2017, 02:43 PM
    Quote from: babooshka on February 18, 2017, 12:52 PM
    I think there a plenty of us out there. we don't always refer to ourselves as 'ex-muslims'.

    as for 'community' well, I've lived in London all my life and I've never been a part of a 'muslim community'. is there one? we just have a circle of friends who our parents knew when they first came here. the circle is bigger now but I wouldn't say its a community. some wear hijabs most don't don't. I think most still observe Ramadan but my friends don't. no one has ever been ostracised.

    remember, its always the fanatical groups that grab the headlines and the rest of us get tarred with the same brush.


    True there are lots of ex-Muslims but you can't openly criticise your religion in a way former Christians or Jews can. You just can't. I guess it does vary from family to family, situation to situation. But broadly speaking I think it's deeply frowned upon to criticise your own religion, let alone declare you don't believe in the faith. At the extreme end you could be killed (which rarely happens in the West because the law of the land supersedes everything). But at the other end you can be left alienated from your own family.

    I use the word community loosely I guess. Where I live, it seems to me that more women are wearing the full veil, let alone the hijab since the days when I was a kid. Parents send their kids to the local mosques en masse after school. We all congregate on Fridays to listen to the sermon where one of the recurrent themes is raising your kids in the Islamic mould. Part of my own personal alienation from my family is how I felt I was being raised to be a Muslim more than raising a happy child. It starts with the mosques that we still support. Parents send their kids to mosques to learn nothing of value, and half of these places seem to allow the 'teachers' to beat up the kids if you're misbehaving or not learning properly. It's no surprise there's not much room to declare yourself an apostate. I haven't travelled much to know how my area fares compared to others. I guess there are more enclaved 'communities' than others.
  • How long will it be until the stigma towards ex-Muslims ends?
     Reply #4 - February 18, 2017, 02:51 PM
    Quote from: atheiststani on February 17, 2017, 12:33 AM
    It comes down to the individual and how they handle their particular situation. I imagine there could be some crazies out there who might wanna ostracise their child if they became non-muslim. 


    It also comes down to the faith itself though? When it says in the Hadith 'whoever changes his religion, kill him'. Of course not all Muslims follow the Hadith and they prefer to refer to the Quran on all things. But that air of looking down upon, being wary of non Muslims and ex-Muslims lingers in the Quran as well.
  • How long will it be until the stigma towards ex-Muslims ends?
     Reply #5 - February 18, 2017, 03:50 PM
    Quote from: Ward_End on February 18, 2017, 02:43 PM
    True there are lots of ex-Muslims but you can't openly criticise your religion in a way former Christians or Jews can. You just can't. I guess it does vary from family to family, situation to situation. But broadly speaking I think it's deeply frowned upon to criticise your own religion, let alone declare you don't believe in the faith. At the extreme end you could be killed (which rarely happens in the West because the law of the land supersedes everything). But at the other end you can be left alienated from your own family.


    I agree it is frowned upon. I have been in company where they started quoting the good hadiths at me. once a lady got up and left the room mumbling 'tauba tauba'. That's the worst that has ever happened to me. I guess i'm lucky to be able to criticise islam amongst family and friends without being cast out as a social pariah.

  • How long will it be until the stigma towards ex-Muslims ends?
     Reply #6 - February 18, 2017, 04:57 PM
    Quote from: Ward_End on February 18, 2017, 02:43 PM
    I use the word community loosely I guess. Where I live, it seems to me that more women are wearing the full veil, let alone the hijab since the days when I was a kid. Parents send their kids to the local mosques en masse after school. We all congregate on Fridays to listen to the sermon where one of the recurrent themes is raising your kids in the Islamic mould. Part of my own personal alienation from my family is how I felt I was being raised to be a Muslim more than raising a happy child. It starts with the mosques that we still support. Parents send their kids to mosques to learn nothing of value, and half of these places seem to allow the 'teachers' to beat up the kids if you're misbehaving or not learning properly. It's no surprise there's not much room to declare yourself an apostate. I haven't travelled much to know how my area fares compared to others. I guess there are more enclaved 'communities' than others.


    Sorry I shouldn't have latched on to the word community. I just hate the description 'the muslim community'. just winds me up for some reason. I don't see many full veil wearers where i am but i do see a lot of young girls wearing hijabs (yet their mums don't cover up). i'm not sure if they do it for fashion, rebellion, identity or allah.  some of my cousins wear hijabs and they're pretty cool with it. it was their choice. but they all live abroad.

    I know a couple of people who are quran hafiz and went on to uni and then lost their faith and told their parents - it wasn't easy. I know others who have lost faith and not told their parents and are just carrying on with their lives as normal....they're just not super religious. education seems to be the answer.....sometimes.

    The beatings in the mosque needs to be reported btw. That shouldn't be allowed.

    I do feel for you living in that environment. It sounds suffocating. but just try and finish your education and find a good job and move away. make that your goal and your inspiration for moving forward.
  • How long will it be until the stigma towards ex-Muslims ends?
     Reply #7 - February 18, 2017, 11:49 PM
    Yeah, I don't like that term either. Not least in certain circles in the media who see Muslims as one monolithic grouping with some collective voice. I was referring to my own particular 'community'. London to me seems a bit more harmonious with its blend of multi-ethnic/multi-faith backgrounds whereas where I live in Birmingham, we're still catching up to the likes of London and New York. Still it's better than the northern areas were segregation and inwardness is fuelled by lack of opportunities.

    I know (or at least I knew) a lot of Quran Hafiz too. I don't know what happened to any of them. A lot of them were decent kids too. My Dad never fails to remind me what a failure I am at not having fulfilled his wishes in comparison to those oh so pious kids and their annoyingly long beards. I'd always be pushed to go to one of those 'jamaat' things where you'd congregate with like minded Muslims to travel across the country/world and I'm like, no? The beatings in the mosques, I don't know if that still happens today. But I'd always wonder if I was being a bad Muslim when I couldn't recite the Quran correctly in front of the teacher lol.
  • How long will it be until the stigma towards ex-Muslims ends?
     Reply #8 - February 18, 2017, 11:58 PM
    Quote from: babooshka on February 18, 2017, 03:50 PM
    I agree it is frowned upon. I have been in company where they started quoting the good hadiths at me. once a lady got up and left the room mumbling 'tauba tauba'. That's the worst that has ever happened to me. I guess i'm lucky to be able to criticise islam amongst family and friends without being cast out as a social pariah.




    You know I always wonder if there are some Muslims who would go about publicly shaming their children for leaving Islam in front of their local ummah. Most would probably just keep it to themselves out of sheer embarrassment I guess. It's all about 'honour', especially in the old traditional Pakistani mindset of my family.  Yeah, you're lucky to live in such a comparatively tolerant family.
  • How long will it be until the stigma towards ex-Muslims ends?
     Reply #9 - February 19, 2017, 05:30 PM
    Its not been that easy. My mum would always nag me for not praying. she's mellowed with age. Her friends would often come up to me and volunteer to teach me the quran in Arabic because, as we're all told, its not the same in English.

    Personally I've never seen anyone publicly shame their child but i'm sure it does happen. and you're right about the honour bit. we do tend to get obsessed with honour. I think there was a crazy woman who killed her boy for being slow at quran classes. insane.

    I always thought we were a traditional conservative family. maybe we're not when it comes to religion.
  • How long will it be until the stigma towards ex-Muslims ends?
     Reply #10 - February 19, 2017, 05:46 PM
    That's the funny thing, 'teaching' kids to read and recite the Quran in Arabic yet we would never know what any of it meant. And parents wonder why we were so disengaged as kids? It was enough for me struggling to keep up with my parents language.
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