Can this contradiction be considered legit?

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- dumb_1st_year
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Can this contradiction be considered legit?
OP - July 18, 2017, 03:07 AM

Hi all.

I have alot of OCD, and this whole faith crisis has really made me duffer- ALOT. I'm in constant fear that my reasons for leaving Islam are not valid.

Verse 4:82 states that had this book been from any other than God they would have found in it contradictions.

So, to ease myself, and for peace of mind, I'm trying to find as many contradictions as I can.

I've already collected scientific, historical, and grammatical contradictions in this "perfect book". But the ones that would satisfy me most are internal contradictions.

My head hurts and I want to cry......this is agony... But you know what, I can do this .

But I need more

I have found this one:

Indeed, those who believed and those who were Jews or Nazarenes or Sabeans - those who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness - will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve.2:62

Vs
And they say: None shall enter the garden (or paradise) except he who is a Jew or a Nazarene. These are their vain desires. Say: Bring your proof if you are truthful. 2:11

I have seen the wikiislam ones....they werent all good and all had responses.

https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Contradictions_in_the_Quran
https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Contradictions_in_the_Qur%27an_(Response)#Response_40

In this thread I am going to link a few more...
- Quod Sum Eris
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Reply #1 - July 18, 2017, 06:19 AM

One would think that if there were even one if would falsify it. Don't worry, the quran is bullshit that contains nothing original. Maybe it would be better if you ask about specific things?

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #2 - July 18, 2017, 08:55 PM

Quote from: dumb_1st_year on July 18, 2017, 03:07 AM
Hi all.

I have a lot of OCD, and this whole faith crisis has really made me duffer- ALOT. I'm in constant fear that my reasons for leaving Islam are not valid.

Verse 4:82 states ............

hello .. dumb_1st_year .. what? why that nick ~~dumb_1st_year~~ ..you are not dumb ., it is actually other way around dear "Intelligent _1st year" any way you have given 4 problems..

1). lot of OCD
2). faith crisis
3). Islam
4). Quran verses.

so let us work in that order I mean "OCD to Quran" not from "Quran to OCD"

Hmm your post at https://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=31081.msg871358#msg871358 says

Sabba satta sukki hontu.

good words.. good words..good one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YzUiIoO3Jk

with best wishes
yeezevee

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Reply #3 - July 19, 2017, 02:27 AM

Quote
Don't worry, the quran is bullshit that contains nothing original.

I wish, I just wish my brain could let me off the hook so easily....unfortunately that isn't the case . I want nothing more than to just forget Islam ever happened to me, but as an obsessive person I need that closure. I want to testify against myself that I have done my utmost effort to make the right decision. I have only the sincerity of my heart in mind.
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Reply #4 - July 19, 2017, 02:34 AM

Hi yeezee!

haahah its actually my reddit username, I do alot of shitposting there....ah. But now I'd like to put this alll behind me....

Wow that was beautiful . I prefer the more melodius, cheerful, upbeat versions though that I listen to . Please do tell me if you know any more beautiful buddhist chants.

Quote
1). lot of OCD
2). faith crisis
3). Islam
4). Quran verses.
so let us work in that order I mean "OCD to Quran" not from "Quran to OCD"

I'd appreciate all the help I can get.....I need it. These past months have been so hard, so horrible. I feel like my brain has gone through excruciating pain. :(

But its ok.....its a journey. I have just grown from religous to spiritual......yes its been a tough journey, but .... sometimes I feel like I'm too hard on myself. I tried my best. I really have. I have humbled myself, and accepted that the universe doesn't owe me answers. I rest in peace that all that worries is me unknowable, and out of my reach. I can merely life my life....kind and happy.....never letting anything get to me...

Oops sorry got off track there. Yes I'd any help I cna get. Particularly with the contradictions but if there was any other help you could give me I'd appreciate that too
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Reply #5 - July 19, 2017, 02:37 AM

I am glad to see you here. Really there are some internal contradictions, but the best ones in my opinion are the ones that fail the logic test.
Because those internal contradictions are logicked like mad by scholars, justified away and etc.
But the verses that fail the logic test are easy, even little kids can point out what is simply not fair. It butts up against our innate sense of justice.

Don't let Hitler have the street.
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Can this contradiction be considered legit?
Reply #6 - July 19, 2017, 03:07 AM

Chapter 79 verses 27-30 say that the heavens were created first.
However chapter 2 verse 29 and chapter 41 verses 9-12 say that the earth was created first.

The issue with this is that it says "spread out". So apologists claim that its not a contradiction because the earth was merely spread not created.

Does the word in arabic imply creation?

Any rebuttal to this apologetic response?
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How does this contradiction hold?
Reply #7 - July 19, 2017, 03:18 AM

Alif Lam Ra. A Book whose verses are set clear, and then distinguished, from One All-wise, All-aware: S. 11:1

but then,

It is He Who has sent down to you (Muhammad) the Book (this Qur'an). In it are Verses that are entirely clear, they are the foundations of the Book [and those are the Verses of Al-Ahkam (commandments, etc.), Al-Fara'id (obligatory duties) and Al-Hudud (legal laws for the punishment of thieves, adulterers, etc.)]; and others not entirely clear. So as for those in whose hearts there is a deviation (from the truth) they follow that which is not entirely clear thereof, seeking Al-Fitnah (polytheism and trials, etc.), and seeking for its hidden meanings, but none knows its hidden meanings save Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in it; the whole of it (clear and unclear Verses) are from our Lord." And none receive admonition except men of understanding. (Tafsir At-Tabari). S. 3:7

Can this be a legit contradiction that muzzies haveno response to? Can an arabic speaker please confirm if the actual arabic corelates with the english text? Thanks! (p.s sorry if I'm annoying anyone, please bear with me).
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Can this contradiction be considered legit?
Reply #8 - July 19, 2017, 03:39 AM

9:29 Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

And,

2:190 And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits.

One says fight those who fight you, the other says fight whoever disbelieves?

Hmmmm. Sounds like a contradiction. To make things clear, dont believe in hadith or abrogation. But thats really not the issue here.This is just blatant contradiction in the perfect, clear book.
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Can this contradiction be considered legit?
Reply #9 - July 19, 2017, 03:53 AM

On one hand;

Ramadhan is the (month) in which was sent down (onzila) the Qur'an, as a guide to mankind, also clear (Signs) for guidance and judgment (Between right and wrong). So every one of you who is present (at his home) during that month should spend it in fasting, but if any one is ill, or on a journey, the prescribed period (Should be made up) by days later. God intends every facility for you; He does not want to put to difficulties. (He wants you) to complete the prescribed period, and to glorify Him in that He has guided you; and perchance ye shall be grateful. S. 2:185 Y. Ali

Ha-Mim. By the manifest Book (this Qur'an) that makes things clear, We sent it (this Qur'an) down (anzalnahu) on a blessed night [(i.e. night of Qadr, Surah No: 97) in the month of Ramadan, the 9th month of the Islamic calendar]. Verily, We are ever warning [mankind that Our Torment will reach those who disbelieve in Our Oneness of Lordship and in Our Oneness of worship]. Therein (that night) is decreed every matter of ordainments. Amran (i.e. a Command or this Qur'an or the Decree of every matter) from Us. Verily, We are ever sending (the Messengers), (As) a Mercy from your Lord. Verily! He is the All-Hearer, the All-Knower. The Lord of the heavens and the earth and all that is between them, if you (but) have a faith with certainty. S. 44:1-7 Hilali-Khan

Behold, We sent IT down (anzalnahu) on the Night of Power; And what shall teach thee what is the Night of Power? The Night of Power is better than a thousand months; in it the angels and the Spirit descend, by the leave of their Lord, upon every command. Peace it is, till the rising of dawn. S. 97:1-5 Arberry

But on the other hand;

We sent down (anzalnahu) the (Qur'an) in Truth, and in Truth has it descended (nazala): and We sent thee but to give Glad Tidings and to warn (sinners). (It is) a Qur'an which We have divided (into parts from time to time), in order that thou mightest recite it to men at intervals: We have revealed it (wa-nazzalnahu) by stages. S. 17:105-106 Y. Ali

Sounds like a big contradiction to me. I dont buy any phony rebuttals.
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Another internal contradiction 2.0!
Reply #10 - July 19, 2017, 04:04 AM

Say (O Muhammad): Lo! I am commanded to worship Allah, making religion pure for Him (only). And I am commanded to be the first of those who are muslims (surrender unto Him). S. 39:11-12 Pickthal

vs

Ibrahim was not a Jew nor a Christian but he was (an) upright (man), a Muslim (musliman), and he was not one of the polytheists. S. 3:67 Shakir

Now the response to this by muzzies is that it means "among his people". Well I say how utterly deceitful for you to add words in the verse that don't exist.
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Can this contradiction be considered legit?
Reply #11 - July 19, 2017, 04:21 AM

That they may bear their burdens entirely on the day of resurrection and also of the burdens of those whom they lead astray without knowledge; now surely evil is what they bear. S. 16:25 Shakir

And those who disbelieve say to those who believe: Follow our path and we will bear your wrongs. And never shall they be the bearers of any of their wrongs; most surely they are liars. And most certainly they shall carry their own burdens, AND OTHER BURDENS WITH THEIR OWN BURDENS, and most certainly they shall be questioned on the resurrection day as to what they forged. S. 29:12-13 Shakir

vs

And every man's work have WE fasten to his neck; and on the Day of Resurrection WE shall bring out for him a book which he will find wide open. It will be said to him, ‘Read thy book. Sufficient is thy own soul as a reckoner against thee this day.’ He who follows the right way follows it only for the good of his own soul; and he who goes astray, goes astray only to his own loss. And no bearer of burden shall bear the burden of another. And WE shall never punish until WE have sent a Messenger. S. 17:13-15 Sher Ali

That no bearer of burden shall bear the burden of another, And that man will have nothing but what he strives for; And that the result of his striving shall soon be known; Then will he be rewarded for it with the fullest reward; And that with thy Lord is the final judgment; S. 53:38-42 Sher Ali

? Anyone have takes. The muzzy response was unsatisfying lots of twisting and turning, but even then can this contradiction be considered legit?
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Contradictiooonnnn
Reply #12 - July 19, 2017, 04:39 AM

Say: "O my Servants who have transgressed against their souls! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah: for Allah forgives all sins: for He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. -- Sura 39:53

vs

Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin most heinous indeed. -- Sura 4:48

never will their repentance be accepted; Sura 3:86-91
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Can this contradiction be considered legit?
Reply #13 - July 19, 2017, 10:11 AM

Merged all the contradiction threads into one.
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Can this contradiction be considered legit?
Reply #14 - July 19, 2017, 04:03 PM

Another contradiction:

4:78

Wherever you are, the death catches up/reaches you , and (even) if you were in towers/castles/constellations built/erected , and if a goodness strikes them, they say: "This (is) from at God." And if a sin/crime (harm) strikes them, they say: "This (is) from at you." Say: "All/each (are) from at God, so how those the nation, they almost do not understand an information/speech?"

and

4:79

What struck you from a goodness, so (it is) from at God, and what struck you from a sin/crime (harm) so (it is) from your self, and We sent you to the people, (as) a messenger and enough with God, (as) a witness/present.
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Can this contradiction be considered legit?
Reply #15 - July 19, 2017, 04:56 PM

aNADA one

But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing?19:67

but then,

It is he who has created man from water
-- Sura 25:54
And God has created every living creature from water.
-- Sura 24:45

We created man from sounding clay,
from mud moulded into shape.
-- Sura 15:26

Amongst his signs is this,
that he created you from dust.
-- Sura 30:20

Quote
I wonder how you would look if I said "I made a cake from nothing" since Sura 19:67 says

But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing?
which fits together with the above mentioned "be and it is" (3:47). Although you might mention different ingredients at different verses, but none of those goes together with "nothing".

The above "harmonization" is another ad hoc explanation since there is no indication that these verses were giving "some of the ingredients only". They do not read that way. They never say: "We created man from water among other things".

And I bet, if today I do say only that "I made a cake from water" that you would still not believe me. And if I say next week "I made a cake from sugar" then you would also find that strange. Because you know that nobody can make a cake from sugar only or from water only. But you would not automatically assume that the water and sugar are supposed to go together. After all, I am telling you so at vastly different times. And these suras are also revealed sometimes with years in between them. Assuming that they belong together and each give only some ingredient, is a rather artificial explanation. What do you think was the truth content of the verses revealed at the beginning if the Muslims didn't know if there even would be any more revelations to give more ingredients? For them these were indeed absolute statement. Just as they appear to us today.

I have read the muzzy response and they are very contrived and deceitful. None held up when examined the true text. Ad Hoc.
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Reply #16 - July 19, 2017, 05:25 PM

sigh there are probably more....I have so many....despite being given the circumstances one should suffice......but these are some irrefutable ones imo. I needn't waste my time anymore searching for them all- its done.
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Can this contradiction be considered legit?
Reply #17 - July 22, 2017, 12:21 AM

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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