Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts


Lights on the way
by akay
Today at 09:01 AM

Qur'anic studies today
by zeca
Today at 08:53 AM

New Britain
Yesterday at 08:17 AM

Gaza assault
by zeca
November 27, 2024, 07:13 PM

What music are you listen...
by zeca
November 24, 2024, 06:05 PM

Do humans have needed kno...
November 22, 2024, 06:45 AM

اضواء على الطريق ....... ...
by akay
November 20, 2024, 09:02 AM

Marcion and the introduct...
by zeca
November 19, 2024, 11:36 PM

Dutch elections
by zeca
November 15, 2024, 10:11 PM

Random Islamic History Po...
by zeca
November 15, 2024, 08:46 PM

AMRIKAAA Land of Free .....
November 07, 2024, 09:56 AM

The origins of Judaism
by zeca
November 02, 2024, 12:56 PM

Theme Changer

 Topic: Origins of the human specie in the Quran

 (Read 3768 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Origins of the human specie in the Quran
     OP - July 18, 2018, 09:31 AM

    Adam is generally taken to be the first man, but nowhere does the Quran say so, or that there were no creations before him. It only says he was the first human entrusted to be a vicegerent on Earth. In fact when citing names and lineages in the history of mankind that were chosen for prophethood above other nations, Adam is included in the list 3:33.

    When the Quran speaks of the creation of the human race, it consistently implies the action of fashioning, molding, forming, perfecting 40:64,64:3,87:2 starting with an extract/sulala of various inorganic, earthly elements 15:26,23:12,32:7,37:11,55:14 and water 21:30,24:45,25:54. Obviously the absence of organic life entails it originated from inorganic compounds. In some of these verses it speaks of dust, dry clay at others of muddy, sticky clay, indicating that a combination of elements (the aforementionned water and dry matter) was involved at the beginning of the process.
    All languages inherently accept exceptions unless the statement is clearly absolute, or that no other statements from the same source exist to allow the exlusion. The Quran speaks in several places of different non organic compounds at mankind's origins and in none of these verses does it make at absolute assertion.

    There is an impressive amount of theories to explain the great mystery of how the very first gene and self replicating molecule originated, among them one that focuses on montmorillonite clay. This abundant, inorganic blend of minerals is known to be a chemical catalyst, the crucial precursor to RNA formation, as well as a means by which chemical reactions can be confined and protected until the possible development of cellular membranes. But until now science has been unable to test and repeat any of those suggestions, including the clay model, to produce the first living cell. Even on a theoretical level, the attempts to explain the pathway from non-living to living matter have so far not achieved the states of complexity that are anywhere near that of the simplest known living systems. In fact some have began arguing that the "p-value" (calculated probability for a hypothesis to be true) for nature to produce the complexity of the genetic code is so small that it should be soundly rejected by science. Science has in fact only one testable and repeatable option that can produce significant levels of functional information; intelligent minds. Since even the simplest lifeforms require high levels of information, the scientific evidence for intelligent design becomes impressive. Even then, one still has to explain how does intelligent design initiate an information without any previous examples, references, experiences. The Quran states that God is
    Quote
    2:117"badeeu/Innovator and initiator of the heavens and the earth"

     meaning that in His case, contrary to all creative endeavours, He creates without any blueprint, preexisting inspiration, experience, simply through His word "and if HE decreed an order done, He only says be and it is". This is why God is the "best of creators".
    The only counter to this inevitable conclusion is the multiverse theory, the existence of an infinite number of unseen, untestable entities, which is actually just a way of conceding that the only alternative to obvious reality is utter absurdity.

    The act of "creation" did not immidiately result in a fully developped, completed human being. "Creation" of man in the Quran is used in reference to the earliest stages, explicitly putting God at the forefront of the event, when inorganic compounds were involved, the step referred to prior as impossible to perform without involving an intelligent cause, and is then followed by the action of fashioning and molding before reaching the stage of man's completion
    Quote
    7:11"And certainly We created you, then We fashioned you, then We said to the angels: Prostrate to Adam".

     This verse, addressing the whole human race, ssays there was first creation, then fashionning, prior to the presentation of the completed creature to the angels
    Quote
    18:32-7"Have you disbelieved in the One Who created you from dust then from a drop then fashioned you into a man".

     Mankind has known 2 types of origins, a unique one that never repeated itself again, that sprung from inorganic matter, and the other that is ongoing, from a drop
    Quote
    40:67-8,35:11,32:7-9"and He began the creation of man from dust. Then He made his progeny of an extract of water held in light estimation. Then He made him complete and breathed into him of His spirit".

     These set of verses consistently and literally say, the progeny of an entity that originated from inorganic material, spread through some "lowly fluid" i.e. the sperm before it was made complete and simultaneously filled with God's spirit. A period therefore existed when an "incomplete" species reproduced through the sperm-drop before it developped physically into a fully, complete human being i.e. Adam who then received the spirit from God, as in
    Quote
    38:71-2"When your Lord said to the angels; Surely I am going to create a mortal from dust: So when I have made him complete and breathed into him of My spirit, then fall down making obeisance to him".

    It isnt difficult to imagine that almost simultaneouly or very shortly after, other humans might have been likewise completed both physically and spiritually in order to reproduce among themselves as a new species. In fact we read elsewhere that Adam's mate (Eve) already existed when Adam was completed and received God's spirit 2:35 however her completion with God's spirit occured after Adam as denoted in the previous verse 2:34.

    The verses 4:1,6:98,7:189 explain what occured after lifeless basic elements were combined together at the beginning of creation "Be conscious of your Sustainer, who has created you out of one self/nafsin waahida, and out of her created zawjaha/her complementary part, and out of the two spread abroad a multitude of men and women". Nafs is broadly used for a living entity, because of its root NFS meaning "to breath". This obviously cannot be endorsing the Biblical account of creation, with the male being the first human created and his female counterpart developing out of him (his rib) since it says that the complementary part of the nafs developed out of "her". The verse addresses the issue of the gradual formation of the human specie. In the beginning there was one NFS/breathing ie living entity, out of which a complementary part developped. Their interraction produced new entities that became capable of reproducing through the sperm-drop -as stated in the previous verses about man originating from dust, then from the sperm-. These sexually reproductive entities are  human males and females.
     
    In 71:17-8 the Quran parallels the growth of man out of the earth like a plant does, in a context of providing reasonable proof for the Resurrection for just as he was originally raised from dust into an elaborate and wonderful creation, so to will he be brought back to life to face his reckoning. As said in 38:71-2, Allah announces to the angels that He will create a mortal, and that when this mortal becomes complete with the spirit from God, to prostrate before him. The last step of human evolution is thus linked in the Quran not only to its physical completion but also to mankind having being filled with a spirit to become God's vicegerent 2:30. Man has both a principal and a secondary nature. His secondary nature returns to dust and his essence is related to Allah. This is why the Quran attributes the spirit to Allah and the body to the earth 38:71-72 and it is this spirit coming from Allah and breathed into Adam for the first time, inspiring him the understanding of good and evil that creates the human thirst for guidance and worship, fulfilling the goal for which man was created; the worship of God. A similar notion can be found in the Hebrew Bible in
    Quote
    Ecc12:7"The body reverts to the dust that it was before, and the ru'ah returns to God who gave it".


    The Quran doesnt give a timeframe for Adam's creation, but does speak of a process that led to his completion, from basic inorganic elements to a physically complex and spiritualy aware human being. The verses read as a whole certainly give credence to "a" theory of evolution, not necessarily "the" theory currently generally accepted and which is in constant review.
    The primary opposition to the theory of evolution, from religious dogmatists, is that they hold that it challenges the dignity of man. The proponents of this idea fail to recognize that all scriptures speak of man's origins from dust, and other earthly insignifant lifeless materials whose combination by the Best and Wise Creator resulted in a wonderful being endowed with consciousness, and the Quran in multiple places argues from the angle that man, whether at his origins or when he became able to reproduce as a completed specie, is not made from some rare or invaluable material. There was a time where he was
    Quote
    19:67,76:1"nothing worth mentioning".

     This as a side note, doesnt say he came from nothing, but that he was of insignificant importance and complexity compared to his fully developped stage. Somewhere else he is reminded how he came
    Quote
    77:20"from contemptible water"

     
    Quote
    36:77,80:19-22,16:4"He created man from a small seed and lo! he is an open contender"

     and even after his completion he is brought forth as an infant, growing in maturity
    Quote
    22:5"and of you is he who is caused to die, and of you is he who is brought back to the worst part of life, so that after having knowledge he does not know anything".


    Man is ultimately defined by his will and desire. It is not the origin of a thing that matters per the Quran, but the final reach of a thing. As John the Baptist said, when rebuking the Rabbis and Pharisees, God can create children of Abraham out of stone. The Grand Quran is a book of spiritual guidance and all of its statements are meant at stimulating spiritual growth, not scientific knowledge so the idea that it must provide a detailed description of the origin of life is misplaced. When it does allude to such process, its spiritual aim, as is clear from the context, includes the humbling of mankind by pointing to the earthly elements and water at its origins, as well as providing an argument for the simplicity of the concept of resurrection
    Quote
    22:5,20:55"From it (the earth) We created you, and into it We will return you, and from it We will extract you a second time"

    None of its statements however, no matter the subject treated, are at odds with factual information, whether historical, archeological, scientific etc.
  • Origins of the human specie in the Quran
     Reply #1 - July 18, 2018, 10:46 AM

    Gaston joins and writes /copy/pastes   and coys with Quran verses something  I guess what Gaston writes  is out of human intelligence and out of this world..  Well Gaston is tough word to say.. so let me make it as "Gas"  
    Adam is generally taken to be the first man, but nowhere does the Quran say so, or that there were no creations before him. It only says he was the first human entrusted to be a vicegerent on Earth. In fact when citing names and lineages in the history of mankind that were chosen for prophethood above other nations, Adam is included in the list 3:33.


    So what us the point dear Gas ?  what is the point dear Adam?  what is the point dear allah? and Is that real?? Is that Adam Madam really first human being?? where did you get that from dear Gas??

    Quote
    When the Quran speaks of the creation of the human race, it consistently implies the action of fashioning, molding, forming, perfecting 40:64,64:3,87:2 starting with an extract/sulala of various inorganic, earthly elements 15:26,23:12,32:7,37:11,55:14 and water 21:30,24:45,25:54. Obviously the absence of organic life entails it originated from inorganic compounds. In some of these verses it speaks of dust, dry clay at others of muddy, sticky clay, indicating that a combination of elements (the aforementionned water and dry matter) was involved at the beginning of the process.
    All languages inherently accept exceptions unless the statement is clearly absolute, or that no other statements from the same source exist to allow the exlusion. The Quran speaks in several places of different non organic compounds at mankind's origins and in none of these verses does it make at absolute assertion.

    yes..yes.. Quran says that....... Quran says this....... QUran says everything under the sky and out of the sky .. So what is the problem???   IT IS A BOOK..  did you read it? I doubt  that dear Gas,,

    Quote
    There is an impressive amount of theories to explain the great mystery of how the very first gene and self replicating molecule originated, among them one that focuses on montmorillonite clay. This abundant, inorganic blend of minerals is known to be a chemical catalyst, the crucial precursor to RNA formation, as well as a means by which chemical reactions can be confined and protected until the possible development of cellular membranes. But until now science has been unable to test and repeat any of those suggestions, including the clay model, to produce the first living cell. Even on a theoretical level, the attempts to explain the pathway from non-living to living matter have so far not achieved the states of complexity that are anywhere near that of the simplest known living systems. In fact some have began arguing that the "p-value" (calculated probability for a hypothesis to be true) for nature to produce the complexity of the genetic code is so small that it should be soundly rejected by science. Science has in fact only one testable and repeatable option that can produce significant levels of functional information; intelligent minds. Since even the simplest lifeforms require high levels of information, the scientific evidence for intelligent design becomes impressive. Even then, one still has to explain how does intelligent design initiate an information without any previous examples, references, experiences

    good show..  
    where did you learn that from dear Gas??  
    From Quran??
    from google god??  
    form College biology 101??
    Quote
    The Quran states that God is meaning that in His case, contrary to all creative endeavours, He creates without any blueprint, preexisting inspiration, experience, simply through His word "and if HE decreed an order done, He only says be and it is". This is why God is the "best of creators".
    The only counter to this inevitable conclusion is the multiverse theory, the existence of an infinite number of unseen, untestable entities, which is actually just a way of conceding that the only alternative to obvious reality is utter absurdity.

      NONSENSE....

    Quote
    The act of "creation" did not immidiately result in a fully developped, completed human being. "Creation" of man in the Quran is used in reference to the earliest stages, explicitly putting God at the forefront of the event, when inorganic compounds were involved, the step referred to prior as impossible to perform without involving an intelligent cause, and is then followed by the action of fashioning and molding before reaching the stage of man's completion  This verse, addressing the whole human race, ssays there was first creation, then fashionning, prior to the presentation of the completed creature to the angels  Mankind has known 2 types of origins, a unique one that never repeated itself again, that sprung from inorganic matter, and the other that is ongoing, from a drop These set of verses consistently and literally say, the progeny of an entity that originated from inorganic material, spread through some "lowly fluid" i.e. the sperm before it was made complete and simultaneously filled with God's spirit. A period therefore existed when an "incomplete" species reproduced through the sperm-drop before it developped physically into a fully, complete human being i.e. Adam who then received the spirit from God, as in It isnt difficult to imagine that almost simultaneouly or very shortly after, other humans might have been likewise completed both physically and spiritually in order to reproduce among themselves as a new species. In fact we read elsewhere that Adam's mate (Eve) already existed when Adam was completed and received God's spirit 2:35 however her completion with God's spirit occured after Adam as denoted in the previous verse 2:34.

    Gibberish EXTRACTED   from silly statements of Quran..

    Quote
    The verses 4:1,6:98,7:189 explain what occured after lifeless basic elements were combined together at the beginning of creation "Be conscious of your Sustainer, who has created you out of one self/nafsin waahida, and out of her created zawjaha/her complementary part, and out of the two spread abroad a multitude of men and women". Nafs is broadly used for a living entity, because of its root NFS meaning "to breath". This obviously cannot be endorsing the Biblical account of creation, with the male being the first human created and his female counterpart developing out of him (his rib) since it says that the complementary part of the nafs developed out of "her". The verse addresses the issue of the gradual formation of the human specie. In the beginning there was one NFS/breathing ie living entity, out of which a complementary part developped. Their interraction produced new entities that became capable of reproducing through the sperm-drop -as stated in the previous verses about man originating from dust, then from the sperm-. These sexually reproductive entities are  human males and females. 
     
    In 71:17-8 the Quran parallels the growth of man out of the earth like a plant does, in a context of providing reasonable proof for the Resurrection for just as he was originally raised from dust into an elaborate and wonderful creation, so to will he be brought back to life to face his reckoning. As said in 38:71-2, Allah announces to the angels that He will create a mortal, and that when this mortal becomes complete with the spirit from God, to prostrate before him. The last step of human evolution is thus linked in the Quran not only to its physical completion but also to mankind having being filled with a spirit to become God's vicegerent 2:30. Man has both a principal and a secondary nature. His secondary nature returns to dust and his essence is related to Allah. This is why the Quran attributes the spirit to Allah and the body to the earth 38:71-72 and it is this spirit coming from Allah and breathed into Adam for the first time, inspiring him the understanding of good and evil that creates the human thirst for guidance and worship, fulfilling the goal for which man was created; the worship of God. A similar notion can be found in the Hebrew Bible in
    The Quran doesnt give a timeframe for Adam's creation, but does speak of a process that led to his completion, from basic inorganic elements to a physically complex and spiritualy aware human being. The verses read as a whole certainly give credence to "a" theory of evolution, not necessarily "the" theory currently generally accepted and which is in constant review.
    The primary opposition to the theory of evolution, from religious dogmatists, is that they hold that it challenges the dignity of man. The proponents of this idea fail to recognize that all scriptures speak of man's origins from dust, and other earthly insignifant lifeless materials whose combination by the Best and Wise Creator resulted in a wonderful being endowed with consciousness, and the Quran in multiple places argues from the angle that man, whether at his origins or when he became able to reproduce as a completed specie, is not made from some rare or invaluable material. There was a time where he was  This as a side note, doesnt say he came from nothing, but that he was of insignificant importance and complexity compared to his fully developped stage. Somewhere else he is reminded how he came   and even after his completion he is brought forth as an infant, growing in maturity
    Man is ultimately defined by his will and desire. It is not the origin of a thing that matters per the Quran, but the final reach of a thing. As John the Baptist said, when rebuking the Rabbis and Pharisees, God can create children of Abraham out of stone. The Grand Quran is a book of spiritual guidance and all of its statements are meant at stimulating spiritual growth, not scientific knowledge so the idea that it must provide a detailed description of the origin of life is misplaced. When it does allude to such process, its spiritual aim, as is clear from the context, includes the humbling of mankind by pointing to the earthly elements and water at its origins, as well as providing an argument for the simplicity of the concept of resurrection None of its statements however, no matter the subject treated, are at odds with factual information, whether historical, archeological, scientific etc.

    And all that under the code is waste of of time to read Gas... you got to come up  with better story ... Such it is a book  of its time .. But I am very certain YOU HAVE NOT READ QURAN dear Gas..  So please continue to write and read dear Gaston  and welcome to the Den..

    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Origins of the human specie in the Quran
     Reply #2 - July 19, 2018, 11:30 PM

    Is that seriously your answer? So here is an ancient scriptures supposedly copying everything from previous fake stories and yet cherry picks the bits that coincidentally make perfect sense, adding further information that agree with factual knowledge?

    You and anyone down in this place can certainly do better than that in the area of attempted refutation and discrediting of the Quran
  • Origins of the human specie in the Quran
     Reply #3 - July 21, 2018, 08:10 AM

    Is that seriously your answer?

    well you are riot  dear Gaston  .. indeed  i was not taking your post seriously .. I didn't realize that I am reading and writing to  Gaston Weit ..... The Islamic Scholar..  Would you like me to respond to your thoughtful posts seriously?  well this is just 2nd post of yours...so let me start with it point by point..
    Quote
    So here is an ancient scriptures

     what scripture, what  ancient are you talking about?  Gaston It is a book..just a book.  As you pointed out it indeed is a  book of songs..sonnets and stories..     WHO SCRIPTED IT ??  HOW ANCIENT IS IT??. it is at best 1400 year old.. what is 1400 when you compare it with biological time scales and human evolutionary time scale??  it is not even ancient with reference to other faith fake storied books
    Quote
    ..............supposedly copying everything from previous fake stories and yet cherry picks the bits that coincidentally make perfect sense, adding further information that agree with factual knowledge?..

       Cheesy Cheesy I love it.,

    What are you writing dear Gaston? you are saying exactly opposite to what you said in your first post .. Why??   I ask you way? I demand the reason for that. Are you here to insult Quran ?? Did you ever read Quran? would you like to read it with me??

    And you think   Quran has copy/pasted fake stories?  I didn't know  that.  
    And some one is cherry picking tits and bits from Quran  to suit their loot booty and political needs?
    Who did that?  
    Did you do that in your first post??    I ask you why ? why are you doing that to very simple folks of CEMB forum?  why are you fooling us dear Gaston?
    Quote
    You and anyone down in this place can certainly do better than that in the area of attempted refutation and discrediting of the Quran

    yes ..yes ....we could better .. we all could do better that includes me and you Gaston.. and please continue to write and read

    with best regards
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Origins of the human specie in the Quran
     Reply #4 - August 24, 2018, 10:25 PM

    Aaaaaaaah...Yeez...never change

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »