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 Topic: As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?

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  • As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     OP - October 15, 2008, 07:53 AM

    Do you believe that Mohammed genuinelly believed he was recieving visions from god and acting accordingly?

    Or do you believe that Mohammed was a charlatan who knew exactly what he was doing and knew no god was speaking to him?


    Please explain why you think the way you do and provide any proofs that have led you to your decision on Mohammed.  Smiley

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #1 - October 15, 2008, 09:16 AM

    What has always bugged me about Islam was the very, very beginning of its story when Mohammed claimed to have received a revelation from the angel Gabriel.

    Why the angel Gabriel?

    Why not angel Kevin?

    Perhaps he didn't receive a revelation from angel Kevin because if he had said so then I doubt anybody would have ever taken him seriously.

    I'm guessing he and those around him already new of the angel Gabriel through existing information.

    I believe Mohammed had an interest in theology before his 'revelations' started and I'm not sure whether initially he believed he was receiving a revelation or it was all calculated.

    We have though evidence that later put forward grave doubts about his sincerity.
  • Re: As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #2 - October 15, 2008, 09:29 AM



    I'm guessing he and those around him already new of the angel Gabriel through existing information.


    Yes, Khadija's uncle IIRC was a priest or monk of some sort, it was he who according to hadith told mohammed that he was a prophet. 

    Quote

    I believe Mohammed had an interest in theology before his 'revelations' started and I'm not sure whether initially he believed he was receiving a revelation or it was all calculated.


    Yes, I am still unsure about how deluded he may have been.  I have read ideas that his epileptic fits could have caused hallucinations that seemed real to him at the time.

    Quote

    We have though evidence that later put forward grave doubts about his sincerity.



    Like what?  Smiley

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #3 - October 15, 2008, 09:41 AM

    Correct me if I'm wrong but did not one of his 40 or so scribes who later wrote a biography claim that at one point Mohammed, as he was lounging about, said to the scribe 'Write what you want' when dictating revelations.

    Please correct me if this is incorrect as I read it somewhere.

    If this is true then this would give more evidence to the claim that Mohammed was more calculative than inspired, here though we would have to take the scribes word over Mohammed's.

    Since Mohammed had shown himself to be a nasty piece of work on other occasions we can conclude that his word may not be all that trust worthy.
  • Re: As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #4 - October 15, 2008, 09:44 AM

    Correct me if I'm wrong but did not one of his 40 or so scribes who later wrote a biography claim that at one point Mohammed, as he was lounging about, said to the scribe 'Write what you want' when dictating revelations.

    Please correct me if this is incorrect as I read it somewhere.

    If this is true then this would give more evidence to the claim that Mohammed was more calculative than inspired, here though we would have to take the scribes word over Mohammed's.

    Since Mohammed had shown himself to be a nasty piece of work on other occasions we can conclude that his word may not be all that trust worthy.


    I'm not 100% sure, I would have to look that one up, I do know that one scribe left Mohammeds employ and left Islam because he lost belief in Mohammed as a prophet.  Could be the same one.


    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #5 - October 15, 2008, 10:05 AM

    Revelations - contrasting Christianity and Islam

    With regards to Islam and Christianity the two principal individuals that claim to have received revelations are

    Paul in Christianity

    and

    Mohammed in Islam

    Paul had his 'Road to Damascus' experience where he claimed the meaning of the gospels and an understaning for the reason for Jesus's existence were downloaded into his brain in an instant.

    Mohammed received 'revelations' over a period of 23 years and presumably would have continued to receive them had he lived longer.

    One claims to have received an entire set of revelations in an instant, the other received revelations on a daily basis, many to do with how to live your life, including abrogated verses/revelations and sometimes verses convenient to his circumstances eg the one about 'right hand possessions'.

    We should ask ourselves we think a true revelation should be and how it should manifest itself.
  • Re: As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #6 - October 15, 2008, 10:14 AM

    I'm leaning towards the belief that he was probably epileptic or something else, and at least sometimes had what he genuinely believed were revelations.  With the stipulation that, as his wife Aishah said, his lord 'hastened to satisfy his desire' with revelations that happened to sanction something he already wanted.  Ahem ahem.  I think he lived out the values and lifestyle that would have been the norm for a tribal chieftain at the time and that the reason he can't be a truly eternal prophet for all people and times - besides the fact that this stuff just doesn't exist - is that those values and lifestyles are no longer considered acceptable, just as medieval Arabian superstitions are now codified as Islamic practise for all peoples in all times.

    Other than that, I don't think about him too much.

    [this space for rent]
  • Re: As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #7 - October 15, 2008, 10:17 AM



    We should ask ourselves we think a true revelation should be and how it should manifest itself.


    I'm not sure how it would manifest but a true revelation from a true god should be less about the man recieving the revelations and how it will help his sex life and more about good for humanity.

    Of course I could be wrong, god could exist and be every bit as evil and sadistic as he is portrayed as being, then my idea of what a revelation should involve would just be the ramblings of a humane human.  wacko


    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #8 - October 15, 2008, 10:22 AM

    I'm leaning towards the belief that he was probably epileptic or something else, and at least sometimes had what he genuinely believed were revelations.  With the stipulation that, as his wife Aishah said, his lord 'hastened to satisfy his desire' with revelations that happened to sanction something he already wanted.  Ahem ahem.  I think he lived out the values and lifestyle that would have been the norm for a tribal chieftain at the time and that the reason he can't be a truly eternal prophet for all people and times - besides the fact that this stuff just doesn't exist - is that those values and lifestyles are no longer considered acceptable, just as medieval Arabian superstitions are now codified as Islamic practise for all peoples in all times.


    I'm no so sure, I mean if his epileptic visions are what he took as coming from god, there would still have to have been a certain amount of cunning in the way he turned it around to satisfy his own whims.  During his epileptic fits, whatever he saw or did not see would have been completely beyond his control and yet every order or vision he claimed to recieve was completely about his control, so it would appear that to me he was a charlatan.

    He died praying for forgiveness, so afraid of what would happen to him when he died you know, the only thing I can see he had to fear was the way he turned it all to serve his own needs.

    Quote

    Other than that, I don't think about him too much.


    I think about him because I try so hard to understand what motivates evil.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #9 - October 15, 2008, 10:24 AM



    We should ask ourselves we think a true revelation should be and how it should manifest itself.


    I'm not sure how it would manifest but a true revelation from a true god should be less about the man recieving the revelations and how it will help his sex life and more about good for humanity.

    Of course I could be wrong, god could exist and be every bit as evil and sadistic as he is portrayed as being, then my idea of what a revelation should involve would just be the ramblings of a humane human.  wacko




    I agree.
  • Re: As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #10 - October 15, 2008, 10:37 AM

    I'm not 100% sure, I would have to look that one up, I do know that one scribe left Mohammeds employ and left Islam because he lost belief in Mohammed as a prophet.  Could be the same one.

    Ibn Sa'ad, the scribe for Muhammad.
    Basically after one revelation he said "wow Allah is a great poet". Muhammad was slightly insulted that Muhammad wasn't praised for the poetry.  Ibn Sa'ad got suspicious as to why Muhammad should wish to be praised for poetry that he merely recounted rather than wrote and to test his suspicion, with some later revelations he suggested some "improvements" to the revelations - which Muhammad was happy enough to go along with.
    Based on the fact that Muhammad was prepared to change the word of Allah, Ibn Sa'ad became a Murtad, ran away, was later captured, converted back to Islam but was killed anyway.
  • Re: As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #11 - October 15, 2008, 10:52 AM

    Thanks for clearing that up hupla  Afro, perfect example of Mohammed being totally aware that he was a charlatan making it all as he went along.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #12 - October 15, 2008, 04:20 PM

    Do you believe that Mohammed genuinelly believed he was recieving visions from god and acting accordingly?

    Or do you believe that Mohammed was a charlatan who knew exactly what he was doing and knew no god was speaking to him?


    Please explain why you think the way you do and provide any proofs that have led you to your decision on Mohammed.  Smiley


    I think he genuinely believed he was receiving Gods message. The words in the Qur'an appear to reflect someone who is convinced that these are the words of God revealed to him.
  • Re: As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #13 - October 15, 2008, 04:32 PM

    Do you believe that Mohammed genuinelly believed he was recieving visions from god and acting accordingly?

    Or do you believe that Mohammed was a charlatan who knew exactly what he was doing and knew no god was speaking to him?


    Please explain why you think the way you do and provide any proofs that have led you to your decision on Mohammed.  Smiley


    I think he genuinely believed he was receiving Gods message. The words in the Qur'an appear to reflect someone who is convinced that these are the words of God revealed to him.




    Or someone with that in mind perhaps?

    Ha Ha.
  • Re: As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #14 - October 15, 2008, 05:42 PM

    According to Baidawi in Tafsir “Anwar al-Tanzil wa Asrar al-Ta'wil”, Muhammad dictated verses starting at (Qur'an 23:12) that says;

    "We created man of an extraction of clay" and when Muhammad reached the part that says, "... thereafter We produced him as another creature (23:14)",
    Abdullah said, "So blessed be God the fairest of creators!" in amazement at the details of man's creation.

    Thats an intruiging story Hupla. I've just found it on Wikipedia:

    Quote
    The prophet said, "Write it down; for thus it has been revealed." Abdullah doubted and said, "If Muhammad is truthful then I receive the revelation as much as he does, and if he is a liar, what I said is a good as what he said." After this incident, Abdullah repudiated Islam, left Medina and went to Mecca, spreading his belief that Muhammad composed the Qur'an himself without divine intervention.

    Following the conquest of Mecca in 629 CE, Muhammad ordered that Abdullah should be executed but Uthman protected him. When conditions calmed, he was presented to Muhammad seeking pardon and offering the oath of loyalty. However, Muhammad withheld his hand and maintained silence. Uthman begged him to pardon Abdullah and on the third attempt Muhammad accepted Abdullah's oath of loyalty, effectively pardoning him.

    Nevertheless, as soon as Abdullah had left, Muhammad turned to the Muslims who were in the room and asked: “Was not there a wise man among you who would stand up to him when he saw that I had withheld my hand from accepting his allegiance, and kill him?” The companions, aghast, responded: “We did not know what you had in your heart, Apostle of Allah! Why did you not give us a signal with your eye?” Muhammad said: “It is not advisable, for a Prophet to play deceptive tricks with the eyes.”


    As far as Mohammed goes, I think he genuinely believed that he was receiving visions, at least in the early stages of his 'career', though admittedly I dont have anything to base this on other than my rosy view of human nature  Smiley  Epilepsy may certainly have played a part, or he may have had schizophrenia or some form of psychosis. I have also toyed with the idea that he may have initially come across some sort of spiritual truth or vision during meditation that fired him up and filled him with ideas of revelation and formed the heart of whatever good teachings there are in the Quran, such as the parts about charity, social equality,good deeds etc... But then it probably never recurred and the rest of his so-called visions were either desperate attempts to call that back or just self-serving politically motivated fictions. Who knows, we'll probably never know why he did it, but ultimately I dont think has any importance besides making ourselves feel better at having been duped.

    Quote
    We should ask ourselves we think a true revelation should be and how it should manifest itself.


    How is it possible for us to decide that? Thats assuming there is such a thing as revelation in the first place.


    Life is a sexually transmitted disease which is invariably fatal.
  • Re: As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #15 - October 15, 2008, 06:11 PM

    Do you believe that Mohammed genuinelly believed he was recieving visions from god and acting accordingly?


    I don't think he was lying, thats for sure. It seems he developed some neurological problems as a child, and even suffered and epileptic attack, which led to the wet nurse taking him back to his mother. Of course he had a traumatic childhood, his mother and father dying early and him having been raised by his uncle. As a young man he was charismatic and extremely attractive, and was known throughout Arabia as an honest and honorable man, in fact his nick-name was "Al-Amin" meaning: "the truthful one" or the "honest one" he also arbitrated in disputes and his opinion was held in high regard by his fellow peers. Those who are effected with epilepsy claim to understand the working of the universe and have a very deep and extreme attachment to spirituality and metaphysics generally after the attack the person will claim to understand the most profoundest meaning to human existence.   

    Refs:

    "Martin Lings - Life of Muhammad based on early sources"   

    Neurologist Ramachandran - Temporal Lobes and God (Phantoms in the Brain)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIiIsDIkDtg

    Vilayanur Ramachandran: A journey to the center of your mind:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rl2LwnaUA-k&feature=related

    Vilayanur Ramachandran: "Beyond Belief 2006"


  • Re: As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #16 - October 15, 2008, 06:13 PM


    Yes, Khadija's uncle IIRC was a priest or monk of some sort, it was he who according to hadith told mohammed that he was a prophet. 




    No he was an Arab Pagan convert to Christianity.
  • Re: As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #17 - October 15, 2008, 06:17 PM


    Yes, Khadija's uncle IIRC was a priest or monk of some sort, it was he who according to hadith told mohammed that he was a prophet. 




    No he was an Arab Pagan convert to Christianity.


    Ok, he was a Christian.  Afro 

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #18 - October 15, 2008, 07:21 PM

    As far as Mohammed goes, I think he genuinely believed that he was receiving visions, at least in the early stages of his 'career'...


    It was also much more common to think things like visions, dreams or inspirational ideas genuinely came from God - particularly in the Middle East, which was rife with the Abrahamic traditions and prophets, seers and sages were a common sight at market places.

    Anyway, here's a great scene lol

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9czBBKof7Yo
  • Re: As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #19 - October 15, 2008, 07:55 PM

    Muhammed's revelations, whether he realised it or not, were his own thoughts, and these were his social, theological views he'd been contemplating. Before his first revelation he's already said to have been going into retreat and having visions. One thing which pagans did was to actively seek religious experiences and contact with spirits, deities etc. In the absence of other forms of shamanism the technique most readily available to him were fasting and meditation. If you spent 30 days in a cave fasting and meditating then you can quite easily experience something like what Muhammed is said to (which is akin to a psychotic episode). Meditation can easily account for having seizures too. There is evidence of psychotic symptoms (interpreted by others as piety, or religious ability) everywhere, but it would make more sense if these were transient episodes, not a full-blown, long-term illness.

    There is a word for being addicted to fasting as well, come to think of it.

    "...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
  • Re: As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #20 - October 15, 2008, 08:01 PM

    Thats an intruiging story Hupla. I've just found it on Wikipedia:

    There are some other parts of the story strewn elsewhere too - where for example he suggested changes to the revelations and Muhammad was happy to go along with them (the changes were fairly minor - e.g. changing "the great" for "the most merciful" etc.).

    As far as Mohammed goes, I think he genuinely believed that he was receiving visions, at least in the early stages of his 'career', though admittedly I dont have anything to base this on other than my rosy view of human nature  Smiley 

    I believe that too - it helps explain the fact that he had to be encouraged to start recounting the revelations.  It is even possible that for his later career, though he knew he was not getting revelations from Allah, he might have believed that Allah was passively endorsing him by not striking him down.  
  • Re: As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #21 - October 15, 2008, 10:39 PM

    We should ask ourselves we think a true revelation should be and how it should manifest itself.


    Bible and Koran contain nothing that was not already known to the people of its time.  To me, a genuine revelation would contain information previously unknown to humanity and be rather specific in its subject matter.   Example: If Mohammad or Jesus had said something like "in times to come, men will fly in the bellies of iron birds and wage war from them", that would be a true prophecy that the Wright brothers would one day fulfill.

    Another form of "true revelation" would have god himself revealing stuff to a whole crowd of people at the same time instead of to just one prophet.

    Personally, I think all "prophets" are mental to begin with.




  • Re: As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #22 - October 16, 2008, 06:20 AM

    According to Baidawi in Tafsir “Anwar al-Tanzil wa Asrar al-Ta'wil”, Muhammad dictated verses starting at (Qur'an 23:12) that says;

    "We created man of an extraction of clay" and when Muhammad reached the part that says, "... thereafter We produced him as another creature (23:14)",
    Abdullah said, "So blessed be God the fairest of creators!" in amazement at the details of man's creation.

    Thats an intruiging story Hupla. I've just found it on Wikipedia:

    Quote
    The prophet said, "Write it down; for thus it has been revealed." Abdullah doubted and said, "If Muhammad is truthful then I receive the revelation as much as he does, and if he is a liar, what I said is a good as what he said." After this incident, Abdullah repudiated Islam, left Medina and went to Mecca, spreading his belief that Muhammad composed the Qur'an himself without divine intervention.

    Following the conquest of Mecca in 629 CE, Muhammad ordered that Abdullah should be executed but Uthman protected him. When conditions calmed, he was presented to Muhammad seeking pardon and offering the oath of loyalty. However, Muhammad withheld his hand and maintained silence. Uthman begged him to pardon Abdullah and on the third attempt Muhammad accepted Abdullah's oath of loyalty, effectively pardoning him.

    Nevertheless, as soon as Abdullah had left, Muhammad turned to the Muslims who were in the room and asked: “Was not there a wise man among you who would stand up to him when he saw that I had withheld my hand from accepting his allegiance, and kill him?” The companions, aghast, responded: “We did not know what you had in your heart, Apostle of Allah! Why did you not give us a signal with your eye?” Muhammad said: “It is not advisable, for a Prophet to play deceptive tricks with the eyes.”



    Reminds me of this, probably where Salman got his inspiration from.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v20VvP19kCI

    And do you remember the Christian who converted and became a scribe for Muhammad, then said "Muhammad reveals nothing except what I teach him!", then repudiated Islam, and I think he was found dead, or assassinated (I forget which), and the people tried to bury him but they say the earth kept spitting him out, so they gave up and let him decompose above ground.

    Also on seizures, there was the time Muhammad passed out as a kid, and he said Jibreel opened his chest to clean a blemish; the time he passed out at a party (saying it was Allah protecting him from wasting time sinfully, before Islam); and the time he passed out when repairing the Ka'bah (before Islam, said Allah protected him from uncovering his awrah).

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #23 - October 16, 2008, 12:05 PM

    According to Baidawi in Tafsir “Anwar al-Tanzil wa Asrar al-Ta'wil”, Muhammad dictated verses starting at (Qur'an 23:12) that says;

    "We created man of an extraction of clay" and when Muhammad reached the part that says, "... thereafter We produced him as another creature (23:14)",
    Abdullah said, "So blessed be God the fairest of creators!" in amazement at the details of man's creation.

    Thats an intruiging story Hupla. I've just found it on Wikipedia:

    Quote
    The prophet said, "Write it down; for thus it has been revealed." Abdullah doubted and said, "If Muhammad is truthful then I receive the revelation as much as he does, and if he is a liar, what I said is a good as what he said." After this incident, Abdullah repudiated Islam, left Medina and went to Mecca, spreading his belief that Muhammad composed the Qur'an himself without divine intervention.

    Following the conquest of Mecca in 629 CE, Muhammad ordered that Abdullah should be executed but Uthman protected him. When conditions calmed, he was presented to Muhammad seeking pardon and offering the oath of loyalty. However, Muhammad withheld his hand and maintained silence. Uthman begged him to pardon Abdullah and on the third attempt Muhammad accepted Abdullah's oath of loyalty, effectively pardoning him.

    Nevertheless, as soon as Abdullah had left, Muhammad turned to the Muslims who were in the room and asked: “Was not there a wise man among you who would stand up to him when he saw that I had withheld my hand from accepting his allegiance, and kill him?” The companions, aghast, responded: “We did not know what you had in your heart, Apostle of Allah! Why did you not give us a signal with your eye?” Muhammad said: “It is not advisable, for a Prophet to play deceptive tricks with the eyes.”



    Reminds me of this, probably where Salman got his inspiration from.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v20VvP19kCI

    And do you remember the Christian who converted and became a scribe for Muhammad, then said "Muhammad reveals nothing except what I teach him!", then repudiated Islam, and I think he was found dead, or assassinated (I forget which), and the people tried to bury him but they say the earth kept spitting him out, so they gave up and let him decompose above ground.

    Also on seizures, there was the time Muhammad passed out as a kid, and he said Jibreel opened his chest to clean a blemish; the time he passed out at a party (saying it was Allah protecting him from wasting time sinfully, before Islam); and the time he passed out when repairing the Ka'bah (before Islam, said Allah protected him from uncovering his awrah).

    Your Holy Book is simply a compilation of Early Jewish and Christian scriptures, folk tales and mumbo jumbo.
    I'ts like us here in Australia. "I saw it on 'Sky News' here in Sydney." It must be true.

    There will be no white flag above our door
  • Re: As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #24 - October 16, 2008, 01:35 PM

    Do you think I am a muslim apologist on here or what? "Your Holy Book", it's not my holy book. I'm in agreement with you. You ok? Something happen to you? You seem to be less coherent than usual.

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #25 - October 16, 2008, 01:54 PM

    Do you believe that Mohammed genuinelly believed he was recieving visions from god and acting accordingly?

    NO


    Or do you believe that Mohammed was a charlatan who knew exactly what he was doing and knew no god was speaking to him?

    YES


    Please explain why you think the way you do and provide any proofs that have led you to your decision on Mohammed.  Smiley

    How can you think otherwise of a man of such ambiguity? Look at what he said, then look at his track record.

    Then look at the other prophets who practiced what they preached.

    There will be no white flag above our door
  • Re: As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #26 - October 16, 2008, 02:00 PM

    Then look at the other prophets who practiced what they preached.


    They did? Are you a Believer?

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #27 - October 28, 2008, 12:50 PM

    Do you believe that Mohammed genuinelly believed he was recieving visions from god and acting accordingly?

    Or do you believe that Mohammed was a charlatan who knew exactly what he was doing and knew no god was speaking to him?


    Please explain why you think the way you do and provide any proofs that have led you to your decision on Mohammed.  Smiley

    e

    I'm Jewish,

    I don't believe in what you say, nor do I believe in what's in the Bible.

    Archaeology tells us there is nothing to believe that  all this happened  ?
    T








    There will be no white flag above our door
  • Re: As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #28 - October 28, 2008, 02:51 PM

    e

    I'm Jewish,

    I don't believe in what you say, nor do I believe in what's in the Bible.

    Archaeology tells us there is nothing to believe that  all this happened  ?
    T


    Charles, you're off your rocker. It has nothing to do with if it actually happened (and we know it did, except for the miracles and such), the question is 'do you think Muhammad believed in himself'.

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: As an ex muslim what are your views on Mohammed now?
     Reply #29 - October 29, 2008, 12:02 AM

    Charles, you're off your rocker.


     Smiley




    Ha Ha.
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