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Theme Changer

 Topic: Religionophobic.

 (Read 9498 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Religionophobic.
     OP - October 30, 2008, 10:30 AM

    Religionophobic.

    I am getting too much religionophobic these days:

    - Generally religions give a view that morality is decreasing in the world. They have their XYZ period which is considered golden as a milestone of morality. However, I feel we have changed quite a bit from that ages. Like it was possible to abuse a lower caste person in India,  it was possible for whites to tell blacks not to occupy first class railway compartment. I always feel we are treating other races, genders and even other species in a way more responsible than we ever were. And that should continue. I woul definitely not like my lineage after 500 yrs to committ all those mistakes which I have done. I rather like to have a bright view of coming years.

    - Religions do give a sense of brotherhood but it is only limited to that fold of people. Some of religions very strongly suggest that heaven or self-realization is available to only those who are part of their sect. I believe in God. But, I feel that thinking is too much primitive  that God will line up ppl depending upon nothing but their religion. Is he THE GOD or tribal leader of middle age?

    - I wholeheartedly admire charity works undertaken by some missionary but the underlying aim is to spread christianity and not just to make ppl's life happy.  So religious charities are never with pure motive of making people's lives better.

    - Religious people don't have any issues in believing their own miracles etc. but when ppl of other religions believe in their own stories, they start considering them as stupid. I have seen Hindus making comments on Virgin birth where they have story of hundreds of gods being born in various ways. And I have seen Muslims making fun of Hindu gods where their own prophet made a space adventure.

    - Whenever something become utterly detasteful or meaningless or laughable in our times, it becomes 'metaphor', somrthing to show restraining ego etc.

    I will add more points later.


    No, I will never become Religiouspeoplophobic. Because, I need to treat everyone equally without discrimination on base of race, religion, gender, ethnicity or the computer platform they use.

    What are your thoughts?
  • Re: Religionophobic.
     Reply #1 - October 30, 2008, 10:38 AM

    I do not hate or fear religion. Liberal religion is cool with me. Unitarian Universalism, Reform Judaism, Buddhism, things like this. The only ones that bother me are the fundamentalists/"true believers", ie "God hates fags", or "kill/persecute/hate the kuffar/goyim/gentiles/heretics", that which divides people and keeps them from seeing the world without blinders.

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Religionophobic.
     Reply #2 - October 30, 2008, 10:47 AM

    I agree with all of the above.

     Afro
  • Re: Religionophobic.
     Reply #3 - October 30, 2008, 11:55 AM

    awais.x
    Even I like Buddhism, Sufism, Vedanta.
    I am a spiritual person. I guess you have got the point.
    What I don't like is hate, the part in your post which I have made bold.

    I do not hate or fear religion. Liberal religion is cool with me. Unitarian Universalism, Reform Judaism, Buddhism, things like this. The only ones that bother me are the fundamentalists/"true believers", ie "God hates fags", or "kill/persecute/hate the kuffar/goyim/gentiles/heretics", that which divides people and keeps them from seeing the world without blinders.

  • Re: Religionophobic.
     Reply #4 - October 30, 2008, 01:54 PM

    Religion divides people into believer and non-believers. Period.
    The only ones that bother me are the fundamentalists/"true believers", ie "God hates fags", or "kill/persecute/hate the kuffar/goyim/gentiles/heretics", that which divides people and keeps them from seeing the world without blinders.


    That's a true religionist.

    I was not blessed with the ability to have blind faith. I cant beleive something just because someone says its true.
  • Re: Religionophobic.
     Reply #5 - October 30, 2008, 04:36 PM

    Sorry to (almost) repeat something nit-picking I just wrote in another thread in response to a perfectly valid point of yours, Learn2bCalm; but I do feel that any level of tolerance, brotherhood, understanding, 'civilisation' and fair play we have achieved as a species is IN SPITE of religion rather than as a result of it. We still have a long way to go, of course, but recourse to the outdated and often barbaric codes of ancient scripture can only hold us back. Cheers. Neil

    We are not here to fight religion. We are here to make religion irrelevant. NM
  • Re: Religionophobic.
     Reply #6 - October 30, 2008, 04:44 PM

    Yes, neil
    I don't see main stream religions have contributed anything to our moral understanding which has undergone a major shift in last 2 centuries, They were rather like obstructions on the way. They fight to keep old traditions alive. Finally when they don't succeed, they change the side and say 'this message was already in our book before 1500 yr'

    However, I do admire some part of sufism, veda mysticism etc.. can't help it.  Smiley


    Sorry to (almost) repeat something nit-picking I just wrote in another thread in response to a perfectly valid point of yours, Learn2bCalm; but I do feel that any level of tolerance, brotherhood, understanding, 'civilisation' and fair play we have achieved as a species is IN SPITE of religion rather than as a result of it. We still have a long way to go, of course, but recourse to the outdated and often barbaric codes of ancient scripture can only hold us back. Cheers. Neil

  • Re: Religionophobic.
     Reply #7 - October 31, 2008, 06:48 AM

    Right you are, Learn2. It's easy to see how religions struggle to shoe-horn modern ideals of morality into their outmoded codes, conveniently overlooking those of their various gods' commandments that encourage us to stone to death gays, unruly sons and fashionable ladies whose clothes combine textiles of differing manufacture.

    The bedrock of all modern morality and ethics is 'love your neighbour -- treat others as you'd like to be treated yourself'. And this is by no means a notion that originated in any particular religion. Long after it became a Darwinian evolutionary necessity, it was picked up and popularised by secular philosophers and then hijacked by pretty well all religions (notably Christianity) that claimed it as their own.

    Hang on ... I think I have an interesting list somewhere in my files ...

    Yep. Here you go. This one applies to religions only. You'll have to take my word for the fact that it's also Darwinian and an idea promoted by secular philosophers pre-monotheism, or look it up. Not hard to find. Cheers. Neil

    Golden Rule in All Religions


    Copied from http://www.religioustolerance.org/reciproc.htm

    Bahá'í Faith: "Ascribe not to any soul that which thou wouldst not have ascribed to thee, and say not that which thou doest not." "Blessed is he who preferreth his brother before himself." Baha'u'llah

    Brahmanism "This is the sum of Dharma [duty]: Do naught unto others which would cause you pain if done to you". Mahabharata, 5:1517 "

    Buddhism: "...a state that is not pleasing or delightful to me, how could I inflict that upon another?" Samyutta NIkaya v. 353
    Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful." Udana-Varga 5:18

    Confucianism: "Try your best to treat others as you would wish to be treated yourself, and you will find that this is the shortest way to benevolence." Mencius VII.A.4

    Ancient Egyptian: "Do for one who may do for you, that you may cause him thus to do." The Tale of the Eloquent Peasant, 109 - 110 Translated by R.B. Parkinson. The original dates to 1970 to 1640 BCE and may be the earliest version ever written. 3

    Hinduism: This is the sum of duty: do not do to others what would cause pain if done to you. Mahabharata 5:1517

    Roman Pagan Religion: "The law imprinted on the hearts of all men is to love the members of society as themselves."

    Yoruba: (Nigeria): "One going to take a pointed stick to pinch a baby bird should first try it on himself to feel how it hurts."

    Zoroastrianism: "That nature alone is good which refrains from doing unto another whatsoever is not good for itself". Dadistan-i-dinik 94:5



    Neil


    We are not here to fight religion. We are here to make religion irrelevant. NM
  • Re: Religionophobic.
     Reply #8 - October 31, 2008, 06:55 AM

    While I'm into some cutting and pasting (not a habit of mine, so please forgive me my double sin in this thread):

    Dr. Laura Schlessinger is a radio personality who dispenses advice to people who call in to her radio show. Recently, she said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22 and cannot be condoned under any circumstance. I guess this means that the same out-dated rules also apply to Christianity and Islam.

    The following is an open letter to Dr. Laura, which was posted on the Internet. Sorry I don't know its source, but that doesn't really matter. It's funny, as well as informative:

    ***Dear Dr. Laura:

    Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them:

    When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

    I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

    I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

    Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

    I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

    A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

    Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

    Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

    I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

    My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

    I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.***


    Little more needs be said to emphasise the irrelevance of scriptural law in modern society, I think, Learn2.

    Cheers. Neil

    We are not here to fight religion. We are here to make religion irrelevant. NM
  • Re: Religionophobic.
     Reply #9 - October 31, 2008, 07:59 AM

     Cheesy That letter is totally awesome, Neil. Thank you so much for posting it. Plagiarised for posterity. I'm sure it'll come in handy. bunny

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Religionophobic.
     Reply #10 - October 31, 2008, 09:23 AM

     Cheesy grin12 Wink

    What a letter!!!
  • Re: Religionophobic.
     Reply #11 - October 31, 2008, 09:48 AM

    Glad you appreciated that, Osmanthus and Learn2. I'm only sorry I've never been able to pin down its origin. Still, considering we don't know the origin of those zany old rules and regulations either, I guess I can be forgiven. It really does wave the red flag of religious irrelevance, though, doesn't it. And the piece in the earlier post does show that the only truly meaningful 'golden rule' is only human -- it's not a religious consruct at all. Hoots. Neil

    We are not here to fight religion. We are here to make religion irrelevant. NM
  • Re: Religionophobic.
     Reply #12 - October 31, 2008, 09:56 AM

    It makes perfect evolutionary sense for social primates to evolve something like the "golden rule". I really can't see why anyone would find it astonishing, unless they had an abysmally limited understanding of how evolution works. "Red in tooth and claw" is not the be all and end all of it.

    ETA: Do you know if Schlessinger ever replied to that letter?

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Religionophobic.
     Reply #13 - October 31, 2008, 09:56 AM

    One more copy paste:
    http://richardathome.wordpress.com/2006/11/03/an-athiests-10-commandments/

    Atheist's 10 commandments  Smiley

    (1) Do not do to others what you would not want them to do to you.

    (2) In all things, strive to cause no harm.

    (3) Treat your fellow human beings, your fellow living things, and the world in general with love, honesty, faithfulness and respect.

    (4) Do not overlook evil or shrink from administering justice, but always be ready to forgive wrongdoing freely admitted and honestly regretted.

    (5) Live life with a sense of joy and wonder.

    (6) Always seek to be learning something new.

    (7) Test all things; always check your ideas against the facts, and be ready to discard even a cherished belief if it does not conform to them.

    (Cool Never seek to censor or cut yourself off from dissent; always respect the right of others to disagree with you.

    (9) Form independent opinions on the basis of your own reason and experience; do not allow yourself to be led blindly by others.

    (10) Question everything.
  • Re: Religionophobic.
     Reply #14 - October 31, 2008, 10:13 AM

    Those are great. I'd put up 'em up in front of my court house.

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Religionophobic.
     Reply #15 - October 31, 2008, 10:15 AM

    The bedrock of all modern morality and ethics is 'love your neighbour -- treat others as you'd like to be treated yourself'. And this is by no means a notion that originated in any particular religion. Long after it became a Darwinian evolutionary necessity, it was picked up and popularised by secular philosophers and then hijacked by pretty well all religions (notably Christianity) that claimed it as their own.


    Umm... I think you got the order backwards.

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: Religionophobic.
     Reply #16 - November 01, 2008, 07:10 PM

    While I'm into some cutting and pasting (not a habit of mine, so please forgive me my double sin in this thread):

    Dr. Laura Schlessinger is a radio personality who dispenses advice to people who call in to her radio show. Recently, she said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22 and cannot be condoned under any circumstance. I guess this means that the same out-dated rules also apply to Christianity and Islam.

    The following is an open letter to Dr. Laura, which was posted on the Internet. Sorry I don't know its source, but that doesn't really matter. It's funny, as well as informative:

    ***Dear Dr. Laura:

    Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them:

    When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

    I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

    I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

    Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

    I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

    A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

    Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

    Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

    I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

    My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

    I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.***


    Little more needs be said to emphasise the irrelevance of scriptural law in modern society, I think, Learn2.

    Cheers. Neil

    I liked the 'cheers' at the end. nice touch.

    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: Religionophobic.
     Reply #17 - November 02, 2008, 02:16 PM

    Those are great. I'd put up 'em up in front of my court house.


    Heh!  Put those up here in Texas and you'd see a bunch of Texans carrying on like muslims on jihad.  It would be even worse in Oklahoma(stan).  Cheesy
  • Re: Religionophobic.
     Reply #18 - November 02, 2008, 02:25 PM

    Neilmarr that letter was hilarious  Smiley  . Like Os, im curious as to what the reply was.

    Life is a sexually transmitted disease which is invariably fatal.
  • Re: Religionophobic.
     Reply #19 - November 02, 2008, 05:25 PM

    When I first came across this, Iris, I did search for Dr Laura's response. There doesn't seem to have been one. Well ... there's not much you can say, is there? Neil

    We are not here to fight religion. We are here to make religion irrelevant. NM
  • Re: Religionophobic.
     Reply #20 - November 02, 2008, 08:43 PM

    Indeed. It so thoroughly demonstrates the idiocy of her position that I very much doubt she'd be inclined to address it.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
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