Girls raped by uniformed men in Darfur

1« Previous thread | Next thread »
- osmanthus
- Cave dwelling
- Pub Regular
- Fingerer of piglets
- offline
Girls raped by uniformed men in Darfur
OP - November 11, 2008, 07:14 AM

Girls raped by uniformed men in Darfur

Two girls aged 11 and 12 and three women were raped by men wearing military uniforms in Sudan's Darfur region, peacekeepers said on Wednesday.

The joint U.N./African Union UNAMID peacekeeping force said it would not release details of the date or place of the sex attacks because of high sensitivity over the issue.

But force spokesman Noureddine Mezni told Reuters the crimes had been "documented" over the past week.

Activists and western governments have accused government-backed militias and other armed groups of carrying out widespread rapes during the five-year conflict, which international experts say has killed more than 200,000 people.

Khartoum denies there has been any organised campaign of rape, while allowing that individual cases may have occurred.

The attack on the two girls was described as a "gang rape ... by three men described as armed and wearing military uniforms," according to a UNAMID statement.

Armed men also attacked and tried to rape two groups of women in West Darfur on Thursday and Saturday, U.N. sources reported. An elderly man accompanying one of the groups of women was shot dead by attackers, they added.

Campaigners say it is nearly impossible for raped women to prosecute their attackers in a region where Islamic law requires four male witnesses to substantiate any allegation of sexual attack.

Women who fail to prove their accusation risk prosecution themselves for admitting to having had sex outside marriage, said a report by U.S.-based Refugees International.

A 13-year-old girl who said she had been raped was accused of adultery and stoned to death in Somalia last week, the U.N. and Amnesty International reported.

And this, folks, is why Islamic law really does suck shit through a straw.
Anyone who advocates bringing Islamic law into democracies should be tried for conspiring against human rights. It probably isn't a prosecutable offense at the moment but it'd be worth adding to the list.

Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West.
- spiral dive
- Poor Lil Lelliphant.
- Ex-Muslim
- bouncy bouncy bouncy
- offline
Re: Girls raped by uniformed men in Darfur
Reply #1 - November 11, 2008, 07:53 AM

Makes me fucking sick to death.

No one can convince me that women are 'equal' to men in Islam when shit like this happens in a country governed by Shari'ah Law.
- Nour
- Ex-Muslim
- Misanthropic ex-'revert'
- offline
Re: Girls raped by uniformed men in Darfur
Reply #2 - November 11, 2008, 01:13 PM

Goddammit! Once again the take the Shariah law on rape and twist it around to suit their own needs! If I remember correctly from my reading on the subject the original law set down by the Propht was that it was the accusing party who had to provide the four witnesses, NOT the victim and as for the witneeses, it doesn't matter if they are male or female.

This episode is yet another example of patriarchy and male egos overruling the laws of the 'true' Islam.

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

The sleeper has awakened - Dune

Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
- Calm
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Girls raped by uniformed men in Darfur
Reply #3 - November 11, 2008, 01:24 PM

Nour,
As far as I have read, a female/male do need to have 4 witnesses for accussing the rapist. As to why it would have been like that, because according to Sharia, punishment of rape is stonning to death. So, the court may need evidence before stoning someone.

What surprizes me is, even for stoning a woman, 4 witnesses are required. However, there are so many cases of woman being stoned. And I have never heared of a male being stoned where sharia has equal punishment for both genders. So, this is where rulers twist sharia for their own purpose.
Quote from: Nour on November 11, 2008, 01:13 PM
Goddammit! Once again the take the Shariah law on rape and twist it around to suit their own needs! If I remember correctly from my reading on the subject the original law set down by the Propht was that it was the accusing party who had to provide the four witnesses, NOT the victim and as for the witneeses, it doesn't matter if they are male or female.

This episode is yet another example of patriarchy and male egos overruling the laws of the 'true' Islam.
- osmanthus
- Cave dwelling
- Pub Regular
- Fingerer of piglets
- offline
Re: Girls raped by uniformed men in Darfur
Reply #4 - November 11, 2008, 08:46 PM

Quote from: Nour on November 11, 2008, 01:13 PM
Goddammit! Once again the take the Shariah law on rape and twist it around to suit their own needs! If I remember correctly from my reading on the subject the original law set down by the Propht was that it was the accusing party who had to provide the four witnesses, NOT the victim and as for the witneeses, it doesn't matter if they are male or female.

This episode is yet another example of patriarchy and male egos overruling the laws of the 'true' Islam.

Got a reliable reference for that?

Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West.
- Aziz
- Afairyist
- Ex-Muslim
- Big Al is watching you!
- offline
Re: Girls raped by uniformed men in Darfur
Reply #5 - November 11, 2008, 09:35 PM

I'm in complete agreement with Nour. I've seen this misunderstanding crop up several times (on the German internet, too), that Islam supposedly demands a punishment for rape victims if they can't produce 4 persons to witness against the attacker. These bloody barbarians are actually twisting a law in Islam, which simply states that you need 4 witnesses if you want to credibly accuse a woman of fornication or adultery. As far as I know, rape is considered a serious crime by the majority of Muslims, and the inhuman practice of banishing or even killing rape victims is something I've also heard of other cultures.

Here are some relevant verses I found when I did a search for "witnesses" in Yusuf Ali's translation:

004:015: If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, Take the evidence of four (Reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or Allah ordain for them some (other) way.

024:004: And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations),- flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors;-

024:013: Why did they not bring four witnesses to prove it? When they have not brought the witnesses, such men, in the sight of Allah, (stand forth) themselves as liars!

German ex-Muslim forum — My YouTube — List of Ex-Muslims —
Wikis: en – de – fr – ar – tr
CEMB-Chat
I'm on an indefinite break...
- osmanthus
- Cave dwelling
- Pub Regular
- Fingerer of piglets
- offline
Re: Girls raped by uniformed men in Darfur
Reply #6 - November 11, 2008, 09:51 PM

Yes but the problem is that if you demand that a woman must provide four witnesses to prove a charge of rape then you are effectively legislating that no woman will ever be able to prove such a charge, except in very rare circumstances.

What this then means is that any woman who attempts to bring such a charge will be deemed to have failed to support it and (this is the killer, literally) since she has admitted to intercourse and cannot prove rape she has automatically convicted herself of zina.

That's the fucking ('scuse the pun) problem. Sharia is total shit.

Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West.
- Aziz
- Afairyist
- Ex-Muslim
- Big Al is watching you!
- offline
Re: Girls raped by uniformed men in Darfur
Reply #7 - November 11, 2008, 10:10 PM

Let's make no mistakes in understanding Islam and its various possible interpretations properly. Making uninformed statements about Islam could seriously hurt our credibility.

When I was a Muslim I sometimes couldn't stomach many of the stupid claims and misunderstandings about my former religion floating around on the internet. On many occasions I would feel frustrated and helpless because I thought this is sheer malice or unwillingness to understand correctly. Trying to correct those misunderstandings wasn't very helpful and a bit damaging to my faith, because deep down I had to fight with my conscience regarding a few issues in Islam, like slavery, the marriage of Aisha, the concept of Hell and the verse that says you can chastise your wife. In spite of these issues, faith always seemed to be a much better idea than atheism, which symbolized absolute meaninglessnes of life and depression to me. Though, in retrospect I'm glad I've become an atheist because my conscience is clear and the world finally makes much more sense (or no sense at all depending on my mood.)

German ex-Muslim forum — My YouTube — List of Ex-Muslims —
Wikis: en – de – fr – ar – tr
CEMB-Chat
I'm on an indefinite break...
- osmanthus
- Cave dwelling
- Pub Regular
- Fingerer of piglets
- offline
Re: Girls raped by uniformed men in Darfur
Reply #8 - November 11, 2008, 10:21 PM

Ok, but is a woman required to provide four witnesses to prove a charge of rape?

Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West.
- Aziz
- Afairyist
- Ex-Muslim
- Big Al is watching you!
- offline
Re: Girls raped by uniformed men in Darfur
Reply #9 - November 11, 2008, 10:27 PM

Oz, I understand what you're saying, but that is the twisted view of those imbeciles. My understanding is that Islam treats sexual assault as a proper crime to be prosecuted, and it has nothing to do with consenting zina (fornication/adultery), for the sane Muslims anyway, apparently not so for those fucking imbeciles.

In any case, Sharia law in general is inhuman and should be banned from any civilized country. Also, I'm sorry dear Muslims, but flogging or stoning of fornicators is a sin against humanity in my book, and you're an idiot if you support that crap.

German ex-Muslim forum — My YouTube — List of Ex-Muslims —
Wikis: en – de – fr – ar – tr
CEMB-Chat
I'm on an indefinite break...
- osmanthus
- Cave dwelling
- Pub Regular
- Fingerer of piglets
- offline
Re: Girls raped by uniformed men in Darfur
Reply #10 - November 11, 2008, 10:34 PM

That's what I'm getting at: sharia. It totally sucks and I agree it should be banned. I also think anyone who supports it is either foolish, uninformed or malevolent.

Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West.
- osmanthus
- Cave dwelling
- Pub Regular
- Fingerer of piglets
- offline
Re: Girls raped by uniformed men in Darfur
Reply #11 - November 11, 2008, 10:59 PM

Aziz, I understand what you're saying and I know there are a lot of Muslims who wouldn't dream of stoning rape victims, but at the same time the logic of those who would is internally consistent.

Basically you have a women who admits to having "illicit" sex but claims it was forced. She has no way of proving it was forced and she has admitted to illicit sex, ergo she is guilty of having illicit sex. Case closed.

If you accept the sharia requirements regarding witnesses then the rest follows quite simply.

Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West.
- Aziz
- Afairyist
- Ex-Muslim
- Big Al is watching you!
- offline
Re: Girls raped by uniformed men in Darfur
Reply #12 - November 11, 2008, 11:59 PM

Well, the woman who charges another man or group of men of rape doesn't have to bring forth four witnesses, but credible evidence (whatever that means in a Sharia court.) The verses in question only talk about men or women accusing other women of lewdness, and rape can hardly be seen as that. It's interesting though, as you pointed out, to know what happens if the woman fails to prove her charge. Is she then vulnerable to getting convicted of fornication? I really don't know what the answer to that one is.

German ex-Muslim forum — My YouTube — List of Ex-Muslims —
Wikis: en – de – fr – ar – tr
CEMB-Chat
I'm on an indefinite break...
- SmartAssmodeus
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Girls raped by uniformed men in Darfur
Reply #13 - November 12, 2008, 12:28 AM

Quote from: Nour on November 11, 2008, 01:13 PM
Goddammit! Once again the take the Shariah law on rape and twist it around to suit their own needs! If I remember correctly from my reading on the subject the original law set down by the Propht was that it was the accusing party who had to provide the four witnesses, NOT the victim and as for the witneeses, it doesn't matter if they are male or female.

This episode is yet another example of patriarchy and male egos overruling the laws of the 'true' Islam.

Where does it say that?

And yes, the sanctification of rape by islam still sucks increasing with the number of victims.
- osmanthus
- Cave dwelling
- Pub Regular
- Fingerer of piglets
- offline
Re: Girls raped by uniformed men in Darfur
Reply #14 - November 12, 2008, 08:25 AM

Quote from: Aziz on November 11, 2008, 11:59 PM
Well, the woman who charges another man or group of men of rape doesn't have to bring forth four witnesses, but credible evidence (whatever that means in a Sharia court.) The verses in question only talk about men or women accusing other women of lewdness, and rape can hardly be seen as that. It's interesting though, as you pointed out, to know what happens if the woman fails to prove her charge. Is she then vulnerable to getting convicted of fornication? I really don't know what the answer to that one is.

Well most of the women in gaol in Pakistan are there for zina. A hell of a lot of them are rape victims who couldn't meet the Islamic court's requirements for evidence. Of course they get raped in gaol as well.

Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West.
1« Previous thread | Next thread »